Is she the best middle distance WFA horse of the past 25 years?
Racing Where does Winx now sit in Hall of fame
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iluvparis
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Yes
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on ability and what we think she will do in her remaining years yeah easy, legacy wise a lot may depend on the 3rd CP or an international win.
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25 years? interesting question, Better than Northerly, Might and Power, So you Think, Saintly, Filante, Octagonag, the 1991 Cox Plate field..
she has had no competition except Highland Reel and that was 1 run on a biased track, all the others above met much much better fields. That will always be the asterix to Winx' career for me.
she has had no competition except Highland Reel and that was 1 run on a biased track, all the others above met much much better fields. That will always be the asterix to Winx' career for me.
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Would have thought the competition is better given the imports dominating. Gloabilisation only made us realise how far down the pecking order we were and suddenly the same horses that were winning G1's 20 years ago are now the consistent G2 types
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our middle distance horses were totally competitive 20 years ago, we had the best horses then, i have absolutely no doubt we were better then, we would have owned the JApan Cup if all our good horses went over. The breeders bred middle distance horses, now they struggle to breed horses that run further than 1400 meters.
Winx has met one good overseas horse once.
Winx has met one good overseas horse once.
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i don't think you can assume our breeding has gone backwards and in the same sentence claim Japan's has stayed consistent.
this argument goes around in circles.
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I had a similar view after previous years Cox Plate. Thought may have benefitted from an off track but the autumn campaign changed my mind. Her Doncaster win was a great effort when had a few things against. And then this years Cox Plate took her to another level.
Those champions you quoted never strung together a sequence of wins like Winx has.
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Japan has definately improved (copying Australian methods ), but 25 years ago the japan cup was an invitation race where all the best horses from around the world were invited so it was a quasi world championship.
The one caveat was on those days our horses were given steroids which is illegal now.. maybe that was the reason we were better?
I don't think it can be argued that our sprinters are the best in the world .. but we have dropped the ball as we allow inferior horses become stallions as even they can earn millions.
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Those champs never strung winning sequences cos they had much better opposition than second rate overseas handicappers who run in our wfa races here.
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well we don't know what would have happened if second rate overseas handicappers arrived here in 1990 would we? so marking the current crop down because we know they're worse when we're guessing about previous years seems just blindly assuming.
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If our horses were beating the best horses in the world i am pretty sure they would be beating 2nd rate stayers
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Would winning a 3rd Cox Plate cause you to reassess or would she need to go overseas and win to assume best mantle of last 25 years?
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i am not saying she is not one one if the greats, she is awesome and one of the best few i have seen, I am not denying that. If she wins overseas it would be a big plus but i dont think they plan to take her overseas?
Contrary to popular belief i am not one of those who think everything in the past is better (AFL is so much better these days than it was in the past its not funny in all ways and i am secretly hoping GWS succeed if the Pies dont in the next few years) but racing has just dug itself into a huge hole and Winx in my opinion suffers because of it.
I have said this many times before but selling our decent geldings to Asia and retiring the colts too early is the reason mares dominate these days. So many group 2 and group 3 quality (and some group 1) that would populate our wfa races have gone to Hong Kong, and consequently our WFA races have no depth, so Winx can basically dominate and doesnt have to negoitiate her way though class horses, and its why she puts such long strings of wins together. Saintly had to race Octagonal, Filante, Nothing Lieca Dane etc, all of who would kick most of the horses running todays heads in. Winx had to race against those horses she might be better than them but i am sure she would get beaten in those races as well. Also those horses werent protected like Winx is, if there was a good race, they ran in it.
Contrary to popular belief i am not one of those who think everything in the past is better (AFL is so much better these days than it was in the past its not funny in all ways and i am secretly hoping GWS succeed if the Pies dont in the next few years) but racing has just dug itself into a huge hole and Winx in my opinion suffers because of it.
I have said this many times before but selling our decent geldings to Asia and retiring the colts too early is the reason mares dominate these days. So many group 2 and group 3 quality (and some group 1) that would populate our wfa races have gone to Hong Kong, and consequently our WFA races have no depth, so Winx can basically dominate and doesnt have to negoitiate her way though class horses, and its why she puts such long strings of wins together. Saintly had to race Octagonal, Filante, Nothing Lieca Dane etc, all of who would kick most of the horses running todays heads in. Winx had to race against those horses she might be better than them but i am sure she would get beaten in those races as well. Also those horses werent protected like Winx is, if there was a good race, they ran in it.
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Hong Kong have an international invitation meeting and while top class horses from many countries go but these races are not an indication of a nations dominance. Even Dubai, meh. She's better than any of our sprinters and if they're the best in the world she'd s**t in as the worlds best horse.
iluvparis
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Yeah she's been pretty hard pressed beating them too.
Highland Reel placed in an Arc
Lel
iluvparis
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When were they beating the best horses in the World?
How many world class internationals did the Occy/Saintly/NLD cohort beat?
iluvparis
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No. Her mantle is set. Even if she never raced again she's our best middle distance horse of the last 25 years
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How many world class internationals did the Occy/Saintly/NLD cohort beat?[/QUOTE}
they beat Octagonal, Saintly, Nothing Leica Dane and Filante cos they were world class
and tell me how many Winx has beaten?
1 unless you count Criterion? Wait a minute she beat that freak Hartnell, my apologies
on a biased track where she was in the fast lane and the idiot Moore stayed one horse off the fence and let her through the fence in the fast lane.
farkenformatting
iluvparis
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There is no evidence to confirm whether those horses were world class or not.
She would destroy them. Filante? FMD
She would destroy them. Filante? FMD
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and yes Better Loosen up and Horlicks beat the best horses in the world
wheres the evidence Winx would?
wheres the evidence Winx would?
iluvparis
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Fine there's not. But to say Occy et al beat world class horses because they beat each other is laughable.
The Japan Cup has come 10 furlongs since Australia was last competitive in it. Who was the best horse BLU beat in his?
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It - winning group 1s - is probably only way to compare across eras
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