Religion The God Question - part 2

Oct 17, 2000
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Well said. I dont believe in anything actually, as universe depends on the observer, QM says. If thats the case there is nothing called objective truth and all these arguments we are having is irrelevant. The possbilities are infinite, god is one of them but not the only possibility. What shits me though is when theists say science is a human construct and then subscribe to meta physics which is another human construct. How on earth will someone have a clue what exists outside of space/time if any such place exists at all? there is no way anyone can find out so i wish these pseudo intellectuals would stop pretending that they have the answers when they are clearly nothing but frauds.

I tend to agree. As Ive said previously, I'm of the view that holds that nothing is known, or is likely to be known, of the existence of a deistic God or indeed of anything beyond material phenomena.

I define 'god' in two ways:
- an immortal, supernatural being or deity that is the perfect, omnipotent and omniscient originator/creator and ruler of the universe.

or alternatively...
- any supernatural being (deity), worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force.

Arguing the existence of such a being as a 'truth', using faith alone is intellectually dishonest. In other words this 'truth' of religion is unknowable through evidence and reason. You have to suspend reason to believe in many religious claims, such as the resurrection of corpses, bodily ascension into heaven and so on.

Faith is what you use when you don't have knowledge. If the only way one can accept an assertion is by faith, then I would suggest that the assertion can't be taken on its own merits. If faith is valid, then absolutely anything goes. Any assertion, no matter how improbable or fanciful, is valid.

There doesn't appear to be any evidence for a god, no coherent definition of 'god', (although I gave my own definition of 'god' above, but that still could leaves open a wide range of possibilities for the human imagination to conjure) no good logical argument for the existence of a god and no agreement among believers of 'god' (those that rely on faith for their belief) as to the nature and moral principles of a 'god'.

And beyond all that, there is no need for an imaginary god. Millions of people live happy, productive lives without believing in a 'god'.

As such I live my life without concern for observing the worship of an unknowable god and do not concern myself with, or follow any of religion's material trappings (all invented by man), whether that be cultural / religious practices, or texts such as the Bible and/or the Quran...beyond being an impartial, interested observer. Indeed I'm somewhat fascinated how people can suspend logic and reason and rely totally on faith for a belief that they subsequently allow to control and shape their life to such a large degree.

Be that as it may, and regardless of people's faith derived beliefs, religious practices and ancient or modern religious texts that make certain faith based claims such as the Bible, Quran or even the Book of Mormon are open to be evaluated, analysed and criticised like any other man-made practice or text.
 
Oct 23, 2014
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There is no evidence 'alien seeding' started life on this earth, and yet that is the current most popular scientific belief in regard to that subject

There is plenty of evidence, and the beliefs in seeding seem to be commensurate with the amount of evidence.
 

EmreTheVolante

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My 2 cents. Looking at evidence and thinking logically there isn't a God. That's all.
If people want to live in an alternate reality that's cool.
 

cannot

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My 2 cents. Looking at evidence and thinking logically there isn't a God. That's all.
If people want to live in an alternate reality that's cool.

as opposed to the more realistic alien seeding reality ...

Evidence doesn't mean its proven, or anywhere near that. It just means that there are facts that fit the hypothesis. The belief in this hypothesis doesn't seem to exceed the amount of evidence for it.

why dont you elaborate in the science section
 
Oct 17, 2000
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bollocks ...

In fact there is scientific evidence that supports the hypothesis of panspermia. A selection of that evidence follows:

In August 2009, NASA scientists identified one of the fundamental chemical building-blocks of life (the amino acid glycine) in a comet for the first time.

In August 2012, and in a world first, astronomers at Copenhagen University reported the detection of a specific sugar molecule, glycolaldehyde in a distant star system, 400 light years from Earth. Glycolaldehyde is needed to form RNA (ribonucleic acid) which is similar in function to DNA.

In September 2012, NASA scientists reported that polycyclic aromatic hydocarbons (PAHs) can, under certain circumstnaces be trnasformed through hydrogenation, oxygenation and hydroxylation to more complex organics – "a step along the path toward amino acids and nucletides, the raw materials of proteins and DNA respectively.

In 2013, the ALMA Project confirmed that researchers have discovered an important pair of prebiotic molecules in the icy particles in interstellar space. The chemicals, found in a giant cloud of gas about 25,000 light-years from Earth in interstellar space, may be a precursor to a key component of DNA and the other may have a role in the formation of an important amino acid. Researchers found a molecule called cyanomethanimine, which produces adenine, one of the four nucleobases that form the "rungs" in the ladder-like structure of DNA. The other molecule, called ethanamine is thought to play a role in forming alanine one of the twenty amino acids in the genetic code. Previously, scientists thought such processes took place in the very tenuous gas between the stars. The new discoveries, however, suggest that the chemical formation sequences for these molecules occurred not in gas, but on the surfaces of ice grains in interstellar space.

In March 2015, NASA scientists reported that, for the first time, complex DNA and RNA organic compounds of life including uracil, cytosine and thymine have been formed in the laboratory under outer space conditions, using starting chemicals, such as pyrimidine found in meteorites.

In May 2016, the Rosetta Mission team reported the presence of glycine, methylamine and ethylamine in the comet of 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, near Jupiter. This, plus the detection of phosphorus, is consistent with the hypothesis that comets played a crucial role in the emergence of life on Earth.

So yes, there is some scientific evidence in support of the hypothesis of panspermia. Still plenty of research to do though.

thats a big claim

Is there any evidence for 'god'?
 

paul180

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Apart from the fact that most cultures have them & believe in them, you mean?

Neither the age of your claims, the number of people who believe or the strength of their convictions has any bearing at all on whether or not the claims are likely to be true.
 

paul180

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not a fact just some crap sagan came up with

Yes this is a fact, and if you just thought about it for 2 seconds you would understand the truth of the statement.

If you meet someone in the street and their say "I'm Bob" This is not an extraordinary claim so you believe it.

But If He said I have a Dragon. You wouldn't believe it. But if he could call the dragon, Game of Thrones style and it turned up and landed on your car, You would become a believer.
 
Oct 17, 2000
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So By evidence, you mean material evidence, yeah?

Scientific, empirical evidence.

Arguing the truth of the existence of a 'god' using faith alone is intellectually dishonest. Faith is what you use when you don't have knowledge. If the only way one can accept an assertion such as the existence of a 'god' is by faith, then the assertion that a 'god' exists can't be taken on its own merits.

Got anything more than 'faith'?
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Scientific, empirical evidence.

Arguing the truth of the existence of a 'god' using faith alone is intellectually dishonest. Faith is what you use when you don't have knowledge. If the only way one can accept an assertion such as the existence of a 'god' is by faith, then the assertion that a 'god' exists can't be taken on its own merits.

Got anything more than 'faith'?

So by what mechanism then do we grasp & ascertain 'empirical evidence'?
 
Oct 17, 2000
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I mean, how do we apprehend the material world?....With what?

Handcuffs?

I neither have the time or inclination to explain to you what empirical evidence is.

Do you have any evidence for 'god' or not?
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Handcuffs?

I neither have the time or inclination to explain to you what empirical evidence is.

Do you have any evidence for 'god' or not?

Nice.

Sure, I'm getting there, whilst skipping over your diversionary tactics.

Without an invisible conscience, we have no other way to apprehend the material world....That invisible conscious force is what is meant by the term God.
 
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