Universal Love 2016/2017 Pre-season Thread

[Danger in Texas]

I think Knight and Milera are big chances to play round 1 pending pre season form at expense of Dmac and Lyons

If Cheney is underdone then Doedee may be a chance , ditto if brown struggles with his groin or form

I'm tipping
Ins Milera Knight and a smoky ( CEY Menzel Hampton or Wigg ) for
Outs Lyons Dmac and Thommo

These are my tips. I'm gonna say Menzel as the smoky. Will also say Doedee in for Cheney, to allow the latter to completely recover.

 

[Scorpus]

That's just emotional rubbish ......just think about that statement, it's illogical !

Nah it's really not. We prefered these type of players over the opposite (poor trainer, skilled player) until recently.

Of course we do prefer the double whammy (skilled trainer, skilled player) but these are your elite type players

 

[Cockwomble]

Interesting to see how Harry goes 'Harry Dear now the second-heaviest Crow at 104kg after adding six kilograms to his frame'
I must admit to being a big fan of our Harry!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Nah it's really not. We prefered these type of players over the opposite (poor trainer, skilled player) until recently.

Of course we do prefer the double whammy (skilled trainer, skilled player) but these are your elite type players

Can't accept any part of your argument ...a) you can't make the statement, because you don't watch training, & don't know who the track stars are

If we accepted your argument for just one minute ...
1. Jake Kelly would be an automatic starting 22

There's simply no poor trainers these days in the AFL ....just degree's of separation between the players training standards ....that's a far cry from even 10 years ago

 

[DD#23]

Interesting to see how Harry goes 'Harry Dear now the second-heaviest Crow at 104kg after adding six kilograms to his frame'
I must admit to being a big fan of our Harry!

should have got a taste when Jenkins was injured late last year. Sticking to my guns on that one, Jenkins is utterly useless at <85%

 

[Thinker]

the less than a minute report came from the always reliable Thinker

he wasn't clear on where that was in relation to the pack, but noted it was after Jacobs and some of the draftees.

if we were to take that table there as gospel though its probably safe to say Menzel will be able to hold his own assuming we have a "Super Elite Athlete" in Kelly or Knight and that Thinker's info is accurate.

hard to imagine we don't have a single player in the "Average to Slow Standard" bracket though - if 45% of AFL players are in that bracket...

Unsure of draftees times. I believe several of them are on very modified programs due to pre existing issues. May not have run.

 

[Shaz2012]

Interesting to see how Harry goes 'Harry Dear now the second-heaviest Crow at 104kg after adding six kilograms to his frame'
I must admit to being a big fan of our Harry!

Yeah, interesting. Is that necessarily a good thing him being heavier? As long as he still has speed and mobility. But one good thing is they guy is clearly motivated and making moves.

I am loving our age profile - all except 3 players are 28 or younger.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

should have got a taste when Jenkins was injured late last year. Sticking to my guns on that one, Jenkins is utterly useless at <85%

IMO hadn't done enough to warrant a game last season .....Dear had some excellent games and excellent moments, but not the consistency to tear games apart, which as a KF he needs to do

But we're now talking year 3 , and it's reasonable to expect at least a few games of AFL

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Unsure of draftees times. I believe several of them are on very modified programs due to pre existing issues. May not have run.

Can guarantee Menzel's running times are far superior to any of the new draftees

 

[Thinker]

Yeah, that's not my take at all. Quite frankly, as long as Menzel is ball park, I'm not fussed. He wasn't recruited for his ability to run 2km fast, he was recruited because he is an elite talent. If you look at the top brackets there, it's hardly the "who's who" of elite footballers.

Would it be nice if Menzel was a better runner? Sure, but I'm not writing him off because he's below average over 2km, as long as he's ball park I think there's a good chance his talent would do the rest.

Darren Jarman wasn't even close to ball park when arrived at Hawthorn, nor probably at any stage of his career when it came to running laps. Yet none of that seemed to matter when he was on the footy field.

With respect his fitness is about more than times. It's about mental application. If he's not improved a lot it says much about his commitment. Defensive pressure is key to the game plan and if he doesn't have the fitness to run it, his talent alone won't get him selected.

 

[Squiba]

And people talk about my .......Squiba, your post looks like a Christmas tree, glad you have the festive spirit

Well, I do live near Lobethal mate.

/skips away singing jinglebells/

 

[Thinker]

You guys are nuts.

Show me any evidence of Menzel's slow time? We don't know. We don't know s**t.

Current evidence is a photo which he's not in, and a random post stating a bad time was run, possibly referring to Nov 2015.

We don't know.

We know.

 

[Scorpus]

Can't accept any part of your argument ...a) you can't make the statement, because you don't watch training, & don't know who the track stars are

If we accepted your argument for just one minute ...
1. Jake Kelly would be an automatic starting 22

There's simply no poor trainers these days in the AFL ....just degree's of separation between the players training standards ....that's a far cry from even 10 years ago

Yeah because clearly I was referring to every single player on our list

I'm saying there has always been a preference to choose good trainers that started in the Neil Craig era. It covered our selection, retention and even drafting policies at times.

Remember Walker and Gunston not getting games despite their talent? A product of this culture. We even have an award for the best trainer which is completely irrelevant because training doesn't necessarily translate to ability.

We only recently (since Walsh) have started reversing this sort of thing

 

[Thinker]

Having him benchmarked against Sauce and the leader in isolation is meaningless. However, Thinker is to be trusted as he has always provided reliable inside oil. But, we seem to be getting hand picked context, so whilst I comfortably accept the info as being 100% factual, I'm left wondering if Thinker might have a minor bias against Menzel.

Not biased. Disappointed he's not working harder and potentially blowing that talent.

 

[Scorpus]

With respect his fitness is about more than times. It's about mental application. If he's not improved a lot it says much about his commitment. Defensive pressure is key to the game plan and if he doesn't have the fitness to run it, his talent alone won't get him selected.

Am I right to assume he has improved?

 

[Thinker]

Am I right to assume he has improved?

He had before the Christmas break. After, I'm not sure.

 

[DD#23]

IMO hadn't done enough to warrant a game last season .....Dear had some excellent games and excellent moments, but not the consistency to tear games apart, which as a KF he needs to do

But we're now talking year 3 , and it's reasonable to expect at least a few games of AFL

this "hadn't done enough" doesn't fly in my book.

he was the closest like-for-like replacement for a guy who was moving like a traffic cone - case closed! Dear hadn't "earnt" it, but Jenkins wasn't fit to play so too bad, give the kid a shot.

EDIT: or pick someone else, the point is not about if Dear was ready or not.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Yeah because clearly I was referring to every single player on our list

I'm saying there has always been a preference to choose good trainers that started in the Neil Craig era. It covered our selection, retention and even drafting policies at times.

Remember Walker and Gunston not getting games despite their talent? A product of this culture. We even have an award for the best trainer which is completely irrelevant because training doesn't necessarily translate to ability.

We only recently (since Walsh) have started reversing this sort of thing

The basis of your entire argument is Mackay and Van Berlo .......people have to allow for your extreme bias in determining the accuracy of your statements

 

[Scorpus]

The basis of your entire argument is Mackay and Van Berlo .......people have to allow for your extreme bias in determining the accuracy of your statements

It's not just based on VB and Mackay. It's also based on guys with talent having to spend significant time in the reserves before getting selected (I used Walker and Gunston as examples). More recently guys like CEY and Wigg have struggled to get a game despite showing at lower levels that they had talent. They're not guys you hear about dominating the track.

It doesn't apply to everyone, and it's been less of an issue recently.

 

[Ramify]

Interesting to see how Harry goes 'Harry Dear now the second-heaviest Crow at 104kg after adding six kilograms to his frame'
I must admit to being a big fan of our Harry!

Dang. Was not as if he were a lightweight already.

 

[Bicks]

Not biased. Disappointed he's not working harder and potentially blowing that talent.

I was always of the opinion Troy was a "boom or bust" type pick up from the get go, so far I've seen little to convince me he's not still in that category. I await with bated breath.....

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It's not just based on VB and Mackay. It's also based on guys with talent having to spend significant time in the reserves before getting selected (I used Walker and Gunston as examples). More recently guys like CEY and Wigg have struggled to get a game despite showing at lower levels that they had talent. They're not guys you hear about dominating the track.

It doesn't apply to everyone, and it's been less of an issue recently.

Sorry, but it's just a nonsensical argument, simply because the club didn't play the players you wanted or give them a "tryout" ......you do realise that come round 23 we were playing for top 2 position

People are carrying on as if we missed the finals

 

[Carmo]

I thought we played Richmond, Geelong and Brisbane this pre-season?

We do. Oops, hmm, not sure where I got west coast from. Actually I do now, I accidentally clicked on the 2016 fixture when looking for 2017, even though the link says its 2016 results, its still just the fixture, i just saw a fixture, saw WC and went from there.

Anyone know what Richmond's first game strategy was last year?? Would think given their 2016 season, they'd be keen to get off to a good start for the year so we should see a good side, which is what I'd like.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

We do. Oops, hmm, not sure where I got west coast from. Actually I do now, I accidentally clicked on the 2016 fixture when looking for 2017, even though the link says its 2016 results, its still just the fixture, i just saw a fixture, saw WC and went from there.

Anyone know what Richmond's first game strategy was last year?? Would think given their 2016 season, they'd be keen to get off to a good start for the year so we should see a good side, which is what I'd like.

Imagine if we smash a full strength Richmond by 100+... hardwick may not make the season proper.

 

[beartoo]

I thought we played Freo? I thought I went to the game???

This pre-season being 2017.