The Academies - 2016

[coniglio_number1]

due to poor drafting you mean.

You were lucky to get anything for potatoes like O'rourke, Jacksh and Sumner.

Doesn't change the fact that they were all high quality juniors that were expensive draft wise

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Doesn't change the fact that they were all high quality juniors that were expensive draft wise

no it doesn't. I am merely pointing out that the majority of players that you have 'lost' are not good enough to be on your list.

Draft position is really irrelevant.

 

[coniglio_number1]

no it doesn't. I am merely pointing out that the majority of players that you have 'lost' are not good enough to be on your list.

Draft position is really irrelevant.

But wether they were guns or not has nothing to do with the fact that homesickness doesn't exist for us

 

[Bojan KantKick]

But wether they were guns or not has nothing to do with the fact that homesickness doesn't exist for us

it exists for every club. It's hard for all clubs to keep 2s players from interstate.

 

[coniglio_number1]

it exists for every club. It's hard for all clubs to keep 2s players from interstate.

Except 2s players leave northern clubs far more regularly than Victorian clubs. How are clubs like Brisbane supposed to let players develop such as KPP without losing them due to homesickness?

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Except 2s players leave northern clubs far more regularly than Victorian clubs. How are clubs like Brisbane supposed to let players develop such as KPP without losing them due to homesickness?

brisbane seem to be doing a good job atm.

 

[Colonial]

they are not facts at all. you have spoken about the advantage of playing the gf at the mcg many times and used it as a justification for an academy. why would i apologise.

keep deflecting.

No i havent. I have said its an advantage not traveling. But ive never said thats the reason for academies.
Because your accusations are incorrect.

No deflection at all.

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[Colonial]

GG mentions the GF as one of about three bullshit reasons to justify their academy.

Wrong.

Ive said the academy is there to build junior numbers in NSW(Qld as well) and get growth. Ive said its to help the growth of all Northern Clubs and the game in the Northern States as a whole.

Ive brought up advantages of the Victorian clubs only when people have bitched and moaned about academies.

Its interesting how you do that whole "bullshit advantages to victorian clubs" thing.

Think i might try it.

You come on here and moan about the non existant advantages academies give the northern clubs. Yep that works.


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[Colonial]

it exists for every club. It's hard for all clubs to keep 2s players from interstate.

Bingo, but we dont have over 50% of the draftable players based in our home state to pick or replace them with.



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[Colonial]

only shaw was pushed out the door and he chose to leave victoria when he could have moved anywhere.

Mummy would disagree, as would Stevie J.

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[Bojan KantKick]

Mummy would disagree, as would Stevie J.

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Mumford! The bloke who left Victoria for cash and left Sydney for even more cash hahahaha

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Bingo, but we dont have over 50% of the draftable players based in our home state to pick or replace them with.



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That's why everyone uses the draft, trading and free agency....

 

[Colonial]

Mumford! The bloke who left Victoria for cash and left Sydney for even more cash hahahaha

Who got pushed out due to the Buddy deal.

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[Colonial]

That's why everyone uses the draft, trading and free agency....

From which over 50% of players come from vic. You dont see the issue with that?
Oh wait go home doesnt exist in your world

Well Academy benefits dont exist in mine. That fixes that


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[Bojan KantKick]

Who got pushed out due to the Buddy deal.

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you mean you offered him shitloads and Sydney didn't have the cap room to match it.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

From which over 50% of players come from vic. You dont see the issue with that?
Oh wait go home doesnt exist in your world

Well Academy benefits dont exist in mine. That fixes that


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is it victoria's fault that sa, wa and tassie have had a few lean years?

If the go home factor is so incredibly significant, why do GWS and Brisbane continue to draft victorians with their high draft picks?

Surely you should exclusively invest in local talent if all these kids are going to leave in a couple of years.

 

[Colonial]

you mean you offered him shitloads and Sydney didn't have the cap room to match it.

So we offered him overs? Kind of confirms my point.

But no. We offered him the same contract. Sydney couldnt offer him one.
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[Colonial]

is it victoria's fault that sa, wa and tassie have had a few lean years?

If the go home factor is so incredibly significant, why do GWS and Brisbane continue to draft victorians with their high draft picks?

Surely you should exclusively invest in local talent if all these kids are going to leave in a couple of years.

So what if they have.
Still doesnt change it.

Thats the plan but it takes time.
We only do invest in NSW talent. Hense no Giants academies anywhere bar NSW.

I can see we are going in circles here.


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[Pykie]

Going to be interested to see how some of the indigenous Tasmanians go as underagers this year.

 

[Determinant]

no it doesn't. I am merely pointing out that the majority of players that you have 'lost' are not good enough to be on your list.

Draft position is really irrelevant.

If we are not to be worried about cost and draft position is irrelevant, this form may as well shut down

 

[spotthedog1]

brisbane seem to be doing a good job atm.

Lol. Funny joke. We're doing sooo well. We beat Essendon on percentage.

Yeah, we've made efforts to fix the kulcha and all that. The walkout has gradually reduced. Only one this year (though admittedly not homesickness). Three last year (and all four of them were first team players - well, Aish sorta first team)... But there's more to it than just "once you fix the kulcha, there's no such thing as homesickness"...
- The Lions have significantly increased the local talent on their list, even though most of these are late picks. The Lions have not, as yet, developed a top 10 pick through their academy. They're hopeful that 2017 will be the year, but I heard that in both 2016 and 2015, so I'm not holding my breath. But QLD is not a strong AFL-development region, so there are no extra AFL-standard players to recruit.
- The club have openly stated that they pay about 20% above market wages to retain players. Pretty well known fact around here.

At the end of the day, it's like any other job. If you want to lure talent interstate, you're going to have to increase the offer. If I can get $300k working interstate, or $300k working near my family and friends, I'll take the local job every time. If you want to lure me interstate, you need to make it worth my while. Now, the draft helps with that by forcing kids to start interstate, and some kids buy in straight away, but no matter how good your systems are, there are always going to be some who won't just tow the company line. And I can't fault them for that. But the result is that we get players saying that we can either pony up the dough, or they'll move back home.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

If we are not to be worried about cost and draft position is irrelevant, this form may as well shut down

if that's all you talk about then sure.

It doesn't matter that O'rourke was pick 2 when you went to trade him. If Essendon lost Hird to FA would they be saying oh s**t, we lost pick 70 odd.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Lol. Funny joke. We're doing sooo well. We beat Essendon on percentage.

Yeah, we've made efforts to fix the kulcha and all that. The walkout has gradually reduced. Only one this year (though admittedly not homesickness). Three last year (and all four of them were first team players - well, Aish sorta first team)... But there's more to it than just "once you fix the kulcha, there's no such thing as homesickness"...
- The Lions have significantly increased the local talent on their list, even though most of these are late picks. The Lions have not, as yet, developed a top 10 pick through their academy. They're hopeful that 2017 will be the year, but I heard that in both 2016 and 2015, so I'm not holding my breath. But QLD is not a strong AFL-development region, so there are no extra AFL-standard players to recruit.
- The club have openly stated that they pay about 20% above market wages to retain players. Pretty well known fact around here.

At the end of the day, it's like any other job. If you want to lure talent interstate, you're going to have to increase the offer. If I can get $300k working interstate, or $300k working near my family and friends, I'll take the local job every time. If you want to lure me interstate, you need to make it worth my while. Now, the draft helps with that by forcing kids to start interstate, and some kids buy in straight away, but no matter how good your systems are, there are always going to be some who won't just tow the company line. And I can't fault them for that. But the result is that we get players saying that we can either pony up the dough, or they'll move back home.

I meant that the Lions were doing well to turn around the kulcha and were blooding kids and kids have stopped leaving. You obviously backed your culture in selecting a bunch of victorians and overlooking Ainsworth in the draft.

Generally, players won't leave if you have a good culture or are successful.

 

[spotthedog1]

I meant that the Lions were doing well to turn around the kulcha and were blooding kids and kids have stopped leaving. You obviously backed your culture in selecting a bunch of victorians and overlooking Ainsworth in the draft.

Generally, players won't leave if you have a good culture or are successful.

There are Lions fans who would agree that the young kids have stopped leaving - there are also those of us who think that's a tad naive. Certainly the mass exodus has slowed, but we still get a steady trickle walking out the door. You can't take a 17 year old kid away from his parents, friends, and often girlfriends, and not expect them to consider leaving. Sure, you can do what you can to reduce that, but I don't think it's possible to stop it. Not only your kids too, but older players still want to move on. We lost Leuenberger back to Vic, and hell - even Gary Ablett tried to get back to Geelong. The call of home is huge.

Annoyingly, but also completely logically, the ones most likely to leave are the high draft picks, who grew up hearing how good they are and that they'll be a star. Even after they get drafted to Brisbane, they simply know that every club wants them, and that if they aren't completely enthralled with their surroundings, there are 17 other offers out there for them... Your lower draft picks are a lot more thankful just to get on the list. We never struggled to retain low draft picks...

Re: "backing in the culture", yeah, you have to do that to a degree or you'll just make no headway, and that's what the club did with Aish as well. Didn't turn out so well. But we still don't just ignore the interstate problem and back the culture in completely. For example, the Lions actually have a public position that they target Vic Country players over Vic Metro players - the idea being that they'll never live in the same town as their families anyway, and a lot of the country kids hit a level of maturity earlier. Every player interviewed is also quizzed on homesickness issues... So we draft Vic players, but we have to be a lot more selective...

Success is also a good point - it's a lot easier to keep players when you're up the top - but the Lions are a textbook case of what happens there. We got lucky through drafting some stars late, not to mention the old father son rules helping out substantially delivering players like Browny. And when you're up, it's excellent. But the AFL don't like non-AFL state clubs being too successful, so they stripped us of the various perks they gave us just to keep us competitive. And that was fine while we were at the top. But hit the bottom, and you're in trouble. We're on our third (or fourth depending who you ask) rebuild since the premiership days. And statistically, we are STILL in the bottom four for drafted talent on our list. I'm serious - I ran the numbers last year on the draft positions of talent on all 18 lists, and the Lions came out on the bottom, despite not being successful for over 10 years. I haven't re-run the numbers yet since the 16 draft, but we won't have moved up too much... But that's the way it goes - retention will always be an issue for non-AFL states. Success helps, sure, but rebuilding is just exponentially more difficult. Sydney are flying at the moment, and I hope they continue to, because they're the risk to be the new Lions. They hit the top, and the AFL has stripped them of everything that helps them compete - not to mention trade sanctioning them for not breaking the rules... When they eventually fall back down the ladder, don't be surprised if it takes them a while to get back up...

 

[Bojan KantKick]

There are Lions fans who would agree that the young kids have stopped leaving - there are also those of us who think that's a tad naive. Certainly the mass exodus has slowed, but we still get a steady trickle walking out the door. You can't take a 17 year old kid away from his parents, friends, and often girlfriends, and not expect them to consider leaving. Sure, you can do what you can to reduce that, but I don't think it's possible to stop it. Not only your kids too, but older players still want to move on. We lost Leuenberger back to Vic, and hell - even Gary Ablett tried to get back to Geelong. The call of home is huge.

Annoyingly, but also completely logically, the ones most likely to leave are the high draft picks, who grew up hearing how good they are and that they'll be a star. Even after they get drafted to Brisbane, they simply know that every club wants them, and that if they aren't completely enthralled with their surroundings, there are 17 other offers out there for them... Your lower draft picks are a lot more thankful just to get on the list. We never struggled to retain low draft picks...

Re: "backing in the culture", yeah, you have to do that to a degree or you'll just make no headway, and that's what the club did with Aish as well. Didn't turn out so well. But we still don't just ignore the interstate problem and back the culture in completely. For example, the Lions actually have a public position that they target Vic Country players over Vic Metro players - the idea being that they'll never live in the same town as their families anyway, and a lot of the country kids hit a level of maturity earlier. Every player interviewed is also quizzed on homesickness issues... So we draft Vic players, but we have to be a lot more selective...

Success is also a good point - it's a lot easier to keep players when you're up the top - but the Lions are a textbook case of what happens there. We got lucky through drafting some stars late, not to mention the old father son rules helping out substantially delivering players like Browny. And when you're up, it's excellent. But the AFL don't like non-AFL state clubs being too successful, so they stripped us of the various perks they gave us just to keep us competitive. And that was fine while we were at the top. But hit the bottom, and you're in trouble. We're on our third (or fourth depending who you ask) rebuild since the premiership days. And statistically, we are STILL in the bottom four for drafted talent on our list. I'm serious - I ran the numbers last year on the draft positions of talent on all 18 lists, and the Lions came out on the bottom, despite not being successful for over 10 years. I haven't re-run the numbers yet since the 16 draft, but we won't have moved up too much... But that's the way it goes - retention will always be an issue for non-AFL states. Success helps, sure, but rebuilding is just exponentially more difficult. Sydney are flying at the moment, and I hope they continue to, because they're the risk to be the new Lions. They hit the top, and the AFL has stripped them of everything that helps them compete - not to mention trade sanctioning them for not breaking the rules... When they eventually fall back down the ladder, don't be surprised if it takes them a while to get back up...

It's only natural for you to be sceptical given what has happened over the last 5 years.

The vic country strategy is smart. Country kids are less coddled and more independent than city kids.

I also like that you've been drafting more queenslanders.