McGovern: 1 yr @ start of 2016, 3 years at the end of 2017 - confirmed legend

[TexForPM]

I wonder how these three will adapt to the new "you ducked - you're ****ed" rule.

Hope they never touch it again. Especially hunter, dead set ****

 

[Ozzie]

A lot of people on here seriously underrate Matt Crouch. Brad gets the kudos but Matt has improved enormously since he joined us. Our "poor" midfield killed the Gints in that late season game here last year. We were told their vaunted midfield would pound ours and win the game for them easily. I rate our midfield in the top 6 of the league easily.

 

[Bill50]

When it comes to McGovern it wouldn't surprise me if Ogilvy drafted him knowing he was a big flight risk, but did so knowing that in 2-3 years we could potentially turn what was a 3rd rounder in a shallow draft into a 1st or 2nd rounder in a strong draft. The WA clubs have been reported to be rather miffed when we selected him when we did and is be shocked if they weren't both throwing the kitchen sink at him.

Personally I think there's contingencies enough in the wings to cover McGovern on field, although I would much prefer he stay. What we need to be doing is ensuring we get decent value for him and that may mean scouting out the players on WC and Freos list and working out if we can get someone to nominate us at the end of the year to move in exchange.

It might be interesting to actually have a look at what players we could realistically go after in a trade. The obvious starting point for freo would be
Lachie Neale, being an SA boy. Problem is he recently signed a new contract and we already have decent inside accumulaters. But he is a quality mid and sometimes you take what you can get.

 

[Crow Envy]

A lot of people on here seriously underrate Matt Crouch. Brad gets the kudos but Matt has improved enormously since he joined us. Our "poor" midfield killed the Gints in that late season game here last year. We were told their vaunted midfield would pound ours and win the game for them easily. I rate our midfield in the top 6 of the league easily.

First off it was round 10, it wasn't late in the season.

Second of all our midfield did not kill them. We had one midfielder over 25 possessions and the next highest was Thommo with 22 and Lyons with 20.

GWS had 4 midfielders 25 plus.

It wasn't because of our midfield we won. Of our top 10 vote getters in our B&F for that game, only 3 were midfielders.

We are not easily top 6, stop being deluded.

 

[Ozzie]

First off it was round 10, it wasn't late in the season.

Second of all our midfield did not kill them. We had one midfielder over 25 possessions and the next highest was Thommo with 22 and Lyons with 20.

GWS had 4 midfielders 25 plus.

It wasn't because of our midfield we won. Of our top 10 vote getters in our B&F for that game, only 3 were midfielders.

We are not easily top 6, stop being deluded.

Pedantic idiot. rd 10 BFD. Media blurb was all over the fact we would get smashed in the midfield.

You name me the top midfields based on last year. We were easily in the top 6. You're another one who relies on stats instead of using their eyes.

 

[Pdub]

When it comes to McGovern it wouldn't surprise me if Ogilvy drafted him knowing he was a big flight risk, but did so knowing that in 2-3 years we could potentially turn what was a 3rd rounder in a shallow draft into a 1st or 2nd rounder in a strong draft. The WA clubs have been reported to be rather miffed when we selected him when we did and is be shocked if they weren't both throwing the kitchen sink at him.

Personally I think there's contingencies enough in the wings to cover McGovern on field, although I would much prefer he stay. What we need to be doing is ensuring we get decent value for him and that may mean scouting out the players on WC and Freos list and working out if we can get someone to nominate us at the end of the year to move in exchange.

I've heard McGovern was more of a Walsh request than Ogilvie, Walsh knew the McGovern family from his time at West Coast, was a big fan of Jeremy's before he had his break-out season and had followed Mitch's development, he was trying to convince Port to take him when he was there and when he became our coach he convinced Ogilvie to pick him.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I think this whole midfield thing gets out of hand sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a rose-coloured glasses view of our mids, and I recognise it is our weakest line - but - it's become conventional wisdom that we are not just a little weak, but VERY weak in that area, to the point where we're hopeless until we fix it. Ask any footy follower about Adelaide's chances in 2017-2018 and they'll say "yeah, but midfield". Which is IMO only partly true.

I agree with much of the analysis above, but I cbf trying to "rank" us against other teams in that area. Fact is we have a lot of decent players who haven't had much of a look in yet - for various reasons, valid and otherwise - and there is potential for our fortunes to change in that area, possibly quite significantly. We'll know a lot more my halfway through the season and I wouldn't be surprised if the picture looks a little rosier.

Our midfield certainly isn't horrible but it lacks the hard edge to compete with teams in the top 4. Due to a weak trading season we're going to need to do the best we can with the players already at our disposal. This means guys like Cameron, Knight, Hampton etc. Would certainly help if Brad Crouch lifted his game a bit too.

 

[Crow Envy]

Pedantic idiot. rd 10 BFD. Media blurb was all over the fact we would get smashed in the midfield.

You name me the top midfields based on last year. We were easily in the top 6. You're another one who relies on stats instead of using their eyes.

You aren't serious? Round 10 is not late, you tried to infer it was to boost your argument, but it's in the first half of the year. Don't spit the dummy because I called you out on your bullshit.

So now your position is we didn't smash them but the media thought we would get smashed. Nice u turn. There midfield was clearly better, our coaches didn't rate our midfield that high, that's not stats. Once again you're the one looking like the ignorant idiot.

So are we talking about midfields for this year or last year? This year we have an ageing Thommo and Lyons is gone. But anyway, based on last year:

Bulldogs
Giants
Sydney
West Coast
Geelong
Port who smashed our midfield in the last showdown
Collingwood
Crows

This year unless we do get organic growth I can see it being

Giants
Sydney
Bulldogs
West Coast
Geelong
Port
Collingwood
Melbourne
Richmond
Crows

 

[Crowstar]

What if we picked McGovern for this whole situation. We grabbed him at pick 43 but with a bit of organic growth and investment we upgrade him to a first round pick.
Brilliant I say.

 

[RePete]

First off it was round 10, it wasn't late in the season.

Second of all our midfield did not kill them. We had one midfielder over 25 possessions and the next highest was Thommo with 22 and Lyons with 20.

GWS had 4 midfielders 25 plus.

It wasn't because of our midfield we won. Of our top 10 vote getters in our B&F for that game, only 3 were midfielders.

We are not easily top 6, stop being deluded.

I was at the game, our midfield pounded theirs. Well a better phrase would be 'cut-to-shreds.' GWS looked great on the outside and often you could see the wealth of talent they had but we cut them apart that night, should have been a 50+ point flogging.

 

[Pdub]

What if we picked McGovern for this whole situation. We grabbed him at pick 43 but with a bit of organic growth and investment we upgrade him to a first round pick.
Brilliant I say.

It's a positive way of looking at it, but when a player wants to leave you never get full value, which means you would be better off with the player than the pick, regardless of what you paid for him.

 

[Crowstar]

It's a positive way of looking at it, but when a player wants to leave you never get full value, which means you would be better off with the player than the pick, regardless of what you paid for him.

Maybe but all depends what we get back. Say we get a 2nd or at a stretch 1st round I think that's better than what we would have expected when we picked him up on a hunch. Who knows...WCE and us may already have something in the pipeline

 

[1970crow]

Pedantic idiot. rd 10 BFD. Media blurb was all over the fact we would get smashed in the midfield.

You name me the top midfields based on last year. We were easily in the top 6. You're another one who relies on stats instead of using their eyes.

If you don't want to be corrected, don't make statements that are plainly wrong. You're not gen Y are you? You stated our midfield killed the Giants midfield, thst was plainly wrong. You are right that our midfield didn't get smashed as was expected by many, but that doesn't mean ypu can get away with conpketely manufacturing what actually happened.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You aren't serious? Round 10 is not late, you tried to infer it was to boost your argument, but it's in the first half of the year. Don't spit the dummy because I called you out on your bullshit.

So now your position is we didn't smash them but the media thought we would get smashed. Nice u turn. There midfield was clearly better, our coaches didn't rate our midfield that high, that's not stats. Once again you're the one looking like the ignorant idiot.

So are we talking about midfields for this year or last year? This year we have an ageing Thommo and Lyons is gone. But anyway, based on last year:

Bulldogs
Giants
Sydney
West Coast
Geelong
Port who smashed our midfield in the last showdown
Collingwood
Crows

This year unless we do get organic growth I can see it being

Giants
Sydney
Bulldogs
West Coast
Geelong
Port
Collingwood
Melbourne
Richmond
Crows

Lol, you are seriously underrating our midfield.

We are not amongst the top tier, but imo we are in the next group.

Port smashed our midfield lol, as we won both games. Their depth is ordinary!

Bigger lol, you rate Richmond ahead of ours. They have a few good players & rubbish after.

 

[Pdub]

Lol, you are seriously underrating our midfield.

We are not amongst the top tier, but imo we are in the next group.

Port smashed our midfield lol, as we won both games. Their depth is ordinary!

Bigger lol, you rate Richmond ahead of ours. They have a few good players & rubbish after.

Yeah, were a C+ midfield (bottom of top 8), but we are a young midfield who should improve naturally every year.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yeah, were a C+ midfield (bottom of top 8), but we are a young midfield who should improve naturally every year.

Top tier - GWS, Bulldogs, Sydney. IMO all clearly ahead of us.

Imo, we are in the next group with many teams.

 

[Jack is Back]

I suspect that the difference of views is partly to do with your definition of "midfield".

In the narrow context of "the three guys in the centre square" then 2014 Thommo, Dangerfield and Sloane are well in front of 2017 Sloane + 2 X Crouches. However you also have to add the Rucks, outside mids and part-time mids.

The Eagles without Naitanui in 2017 will be a much weaker midfield. Our outside mids in 2014 were non-existent.
Dangerfield was fantastic at winning clearances, average at defending the opposition at clearances and burnt the ball too often. I personally expect our 2017 midfield to be superior to the 2014/15 Crows midfields but only time will tell.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I suspect that the difference of views is partly to do with your definition of "midfield".

In the narrow context of "the three guys in the centre square" then 2014 Thommo, Dangerfield and Sloane are well in front of 2017 Sloane + 2 X Crouches. However you also have to add the Rucks, outside mids and part-time mids.

The Eagles without Naitanui in 2017 will be a much weaker midfield. Our outside mids in 2014 were non-existent.
Dangerfield was fantastic at winning clearances, average at defending the opposition at clearances and burnt the ball too often. I personally expect our 2017 midfield to be superior to the 2014/15 Crows midfields but only time will tell.

Midfield should be defined by all players who play through the midfield.

E.g. Bulldogs apart from the Bont don't have any superstars, but they bat deep with decent players rotating.

Hoping we can follow more of a Bullies model in 2017.

 

[Geoffa32]

When it comes to McGovern it wouldn't surprise me if Ogilvy drafted him knowing he was a big flight risk, but did so knowing that in 2-3 years we could potentially turn what was a 3rd rounder in a shallow draft into a 1st or 2nd rounder in a strong draft. The WA clubs have been reported to be rather miffed when we selected him when we did and is be shocked if they weren't both throwing the kitchen sink at him.

Personally I think there's contingencies enough in the wings to cover McGovern on field, although I would much prefer he stay. What we need to be doing is ensuring we get decent value for him and that may mean scouting out the players on WC and Freos list and working out if we can get someone to nominate us at the end of the year to move in exchange.

I personally dont see the big deal if he remains a forward and leaves. We have plenty of cover in that third forward role. At times I feel that he and Tex are competing for the same in game role.

But if he becomes that big bodied mid we would love to have we need to keep him.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Crow Envy]

Lol, you are seriously underrating our midfield.

We are not amongst the top tier, but imo we are in the next group.

Port smashed our midfield lol, as we won both games. Their depth is ordinary!

Bigger lol, you rate Richmond ahead of ours. They have a few good players & rubbish after.

So because we won that makes our midfield better than a side with a shitty defence and forward line? Go back and watch the replay, their midfield killed us. Gray, Boak, Wines and to a lesser extent Ebert are quality. If they ever get Wingard into the middle look out.

Richmond with their recruitment of Prestia and Caddy along with Martin and Cotchin is quality.

 

[Crow Envy]

I was at the game, our midfield pounded theirs. Well a better phrase would be 'cut-to-shreds.' GWS looked great on the outside and often you could see the wealth of talent they had but we cut them apart that night, should have been a 50+ point flogging.

Then why didn't our coaches see it that way?

Smith on the half back and Atkins best game all year did the cutting, the rest of the midfield not so much and I was there too.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

It might be interesting to actually have a look at what players we could realistically go after in a trade. The obvious starting point for freo would be
Lachie Neale, being an SA boy. Problem is he recently signed a new contract and we already have decent inside accumulaters. But he is a quality mid and sometimes you take what you can get.

Neale is better than take what you can get - you'd be trading McGovern plus something to get your hands on him. You're right though, he wont leave Freo.

As for what West Coast can offer for McGovern, we have a few young SA players who hold potential but probably don't move the needle in a trade package. Partington, Karpany and Mathew Allen could all turn out to be ok players but none are worth more to you than a speculative pick, so there's little reason for Adelaide to bother.

The player that I think could work out as a trade for Mitch is Scott Lycett. Correct me if I'm wrong but your list could stand to add a ruckman and theoretically Lycett's ability to play forward should allow him to mesh with Jacobs?

Ordinarily we wouldn't dream of trading Lycett but injuries to our rucks, including Scott, have meant that we're about to get creative with ruckmen. If it turns out that Vardy stays fit all year and plays well, or if one of our semi-rucks play surprisingly well, we might be looking at our list at the end of 2017 and thinking "Naitanui, Lycett, Vardy and Giles is too much - one has to go".

Of course, the likely outcome is that Vardy gets injured or doesn't play well, in which case we'd stay with not wanting to part with Lycett but anything is possible.

Even more likely than that is West Coast refuse to trade a player and offer up our picks if we want to trade players in. Personally I'd trade our first round pick for Mitch McGovern unless it was quite early.

 

[Shaz2012]

Shaz......
Shaz.....
Shaz.....
Sloane is most definitely elite and even champion data ranks Sloane and Bont very close.
Other comment I agree on, dogs have a couple good players in MacRae, hunter and dalhaus.
Other than that they just play as a good team

Yes, I probably needed to add another superlative before elite. What I meant was that Bont is in the category that only 2 or 3 players in league ever exist at one time. Like Ablett before, Fyfe, and now Danger. Bont is in that absolute elite category. Of course more players on both lists are elite which is a term that is bandied about readily. My point was not to put Sloane out of elite category. It was to say that he is the second best player on that list including all players on the premiers list, bar 1. And I am not sure that Bont has actually lived up to this extra elite category yet, but given his output and the fact that he was only 20, he is something else that I am not sure we have even seen before.

 

[Golumless]

Neale is better than take what you can get - you'd be trading McGovern plus something to get your hands on him. You're right though, he wont leave Freo.

As for what West Coast can offer for McGovern, we have a few young SA players who hold potential but probably don't move the needle in a trade package. Partington, Karpany and Mathew Allen could all turn out to be ok players but none are worth more to you than a speculative pick, so there's little reason for Adelaide to bother.

The player that I think could work out as a trade for Mitch is Scott Lycett. Correct me if I'm wrong but your list could stand to add a ruckman and theoretically Lycett's ability to play forward should allow him to mesh with Jacobs?

Ordinarily we wouldn't dream of trading Lycett but injuries to our rucks, including Scott, have meant that we're about to get creative with ruckmen. If it turns out that Vardy stays fit all year and plays well, or if one of our semi-rucks play surprisingly well, we might be looking at our list at the end of 2017 and thinking "Naitanui, Lycett, Vardy and Giles is too much - one has to go".

Of course, the likely outcome is that Vardy gets injured or doesn't play well, in which case we'd stay with not wanting to part with Lycett but anything is possible.

Even more likely than that is West Coast refuse to trade a player and offer up our picks if we want to trade players in. Personally I'd trade our first round pick for Mitch McGovern unless it was quite early.

The only thing we need less then ruckmen is defenders, seeing we have Jacobs/Jenkins + O'Brien and Dear as depth.

Really, the only thing we need is midfielders right now, seeing we're still looking for the piece that pushes ours into the top echelon.

 

[Elite Crow]

A lot of people on here seriously underrate Matt Crouch. Brad gets the kudos but Matt has improved enormously since he joined us. Our "poor" midfield killed the Gints in that late season game here last year. We were told their vaunted midfield would pound ours and win the game for them easily. I rate our midfield in the top 6 of the league easily.

Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie