Current The Western Australian Current Trials Thread

[Dan Baker]

If you include the Turner crime just as an example, the crimes appear to have been heading a clockwise manner around GPO. If that was the case then Sarah is potentially between Turner and Rimmer.

I have always said I felt the girls were stalked prior. That they were placed in predesignated positions.
Gleneagle timber mill is between Turner and Rimmer. There is potentially Cutler.
Turner went from Shepparton and Miller. Cutler from Mill st (The Wool Exchange of past). Sarah lived in Mill Point road. And Jane was found 100 metres from Miller rd on Woolcoot. Sarahs father had a large wool shearing team.

As you saw last night on TV. Birnies stalked some of their victims prior. One woman(real estate) had Birnie come back to her office same time the day several times in the week, until she put her husband in the office.

 

[Fish breath]

Kate Moir, she's so amazing climbed out the bedroom window when that evil thing had to answer a knock at the door. Some insights, you'll see them I think.
Coincidentally, Kate had been at the Claremont Hotel.

The couple thing is an interesting dynamic. You'd wanna be sure of each other - to "share" such a thing, keep the secret, keep it together...

 

[Flash of power]

The couple thing is an interesting dynamic. You'd wanna be sure of each other - to "share" such a thing, keep the secret, keep it together...

There are several examples of the "couples thing" it's very interesting.

In Adelaide there was the case where the husband killed his wife at the direction of his new lover, she had a total spell on him, when she was jailed she hooked up with one of the prison guards and had him totally under her spell as well. She was not attractive, overweight, and the cop investigating said (off the record) the only explanation that he could give as to her power over these men was that she must have been able to suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

 

[Fish breath]

There are several examples of the "couples thing" it's very interesting.

In Adelaide there was the case where the husband killed his wife at the direction of his new lover, she had a total spell on him, when she was jailed she hooked up with one of the prison guards and had him totally under her spell as well. She was not attractive, overweight, and the cop investigating said (off the record) the only explanation that he could give as to her power over these men was that she must have been able to suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

There are practical advantages, I suppose. Restraining/subduing the person, cutting up the body/bodies, disposable of the bodies etc. Much easier if you have a partner. Problem is, you then have a witness... Other pressures such as jealousy in the case of the Birnies. A risky business either way!

 

[Kurve]

If you include the Turner crime just as an example, the crimes appear to have been heading a clockwise manner around GPO. If that was the case then Sarah is potentially between Turner and Rimmer.

I have always said I felt the girls were stalked prior. That they were placed in predesignated positions.
Gleneagle timber mill is between Turner and Rimmer. There is potentially Cutler.
Turner went from Shepparton and Miller. Cutler from Mill st (The Wool Exchange of past). Sarah lived in Mill Point road. And Jane was found 100 metres from Miller rd on Woolcoot. Sarahs father had a large wool shearing team.

As you saw last night on TV. Birnies stalked some of their victims prior. One woman(real estate) had Birnie come back to her office same time the day several times in the week, until she put her husband in the office.

The bold stalking of some surprised me a bit, (esp Cheryl Renwick if that was them) receptionist at the real estate office though was before the Birnies had reunited, not sure she would have ended up dead.

 

[Kurve]

The couple thing is an interesting dynamic. You'd wanna be sure of each other - to "share" such a thing, keep the secret, keep it together...

There are practical advantages, I suppose. Restraining/subduing the person, cutting up the body/bodies, disposable of the bodies etc. Much easier if you have a partner. Problem is, you then have a witness... Other pressures such as jealousy in the case of the Birnies. A risky business either way!

Agree, generally true "Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead"

 

[Fish breath]

Agree, generally true "Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead"

True in many cases. Fred & Rosemary West, the Moors murders, the Birnies unravelled. Others I'm not sure of. There must be many duo killers that do work it out or perhaps one takes the rap because of obligation - such as blood ties, say?

 

[Kurve]

True in many cases. Fred & Rosemary West, the Moors murders, the Birnies unravelled. Others I'm not sure of. There must be many duo killers that do work it out or perhaps one takes the rap because of obligation - such as blood ties, say?

Ivan Milat's blood ties come to mind, some were sure and are on record saying he wasn't always alone

 

[Dan Baker]

Has the Robyn Santen Inquest been closed yet? A few people adamant the findings are suicide around the traps. I don't think findings have been closed yet?

http://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/I/inquest_findings_2017.aspx?uid=1064-2356-5649-5376

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...e/news-story/0143fb8550fa1b4173c0b75fc7efae1d

Robyn worked at UWA from time to time I believe.

 

[Kurve]

Has the Robyn Santen Inquest been closed yet? A few people adamant the findings are suicide around the traps. I don't think findings have been closed yet?

http://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/I/inquest_findings_2017.aspx?uid=1064-2356-5649-5376

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...e/news-story/0143fb8550fa1b4173c0b75fc7efae1d

Robyn worked at UWA from time to time I believe.

She was depressed and had talked about suicide apparently Via the West Australian - Coroner Barry King said it was clear Mrs Santen was deceased but noted it was unlikely he could reach a finding on the cause of death.

 

[Fish breath]

Ivan Milat's blood ties come to mind, some were sure and are on record saying he wasn't always alone

Others on this forum have raised the possibility that the CSK is two people rather than one. The fact Birnie was consulted at one time is suggestive. The cops have maintained though that CSK is the only perp in this case...

 

[Dan Baker]

She was depressed and had talked about suicide apparently Via the West Australian - Coroner Barry King said it was clear Mrs Santen was deceased but noted it was unlikely he could reach a finding on the cause of death.

Ultimately that's the responsibility of the Coroners office. To establish cause of death. That would be in this case, stating more than likely suicide if people are adamant they feel it was suicide.
In saying that, sharks are not endangered in Perth. All sharks have some layer of protection in the metro from full protection of Great Whites, and no shortage of Tiger sharks in that vicinity.
Cottesloe used to have an onshore concrete ocean pool but I cant remember when they rid the concrete bridge due to concrete cancer?
Swimming at out night is no longer an option, especially around City beach. Citybeach to Cottesloe is the stretch Ken Crew used to swim. Protected by the Sound on a southerly swell, it can be popular for swimmers. There is still no evidence of clothing after a prolonged search. Something usually washes up on the beach. Robyn Paton was however a clubby or at least an ex clubby of Scarborough SLSC.

Robyn had caught a cab from James and Williams street to Kimberley st, her West Leederville home. Robyn had done a thesis on Perth Water Catchment at UWA.
Robyn (Paton) Santen had been arguing with her husband just like Corryn Rayney had.

James Edwards Find

 

[Dan Baker]

She was depressed and had talked about suicide apparently Via the West Australian - Coroner Barry King said it was clear Mrs Santen was deceased but noted it was unlikely he could reach a finding on the cause of death.

Others on this forum have raised the possibility that the CSK is two people rather than one. The fact Birnie was consulted at one time is suggestive. The cops have maintained though that CSK is the only perp in this case...

Fishbreath, I have faith in what police are saying. I do wonder though if they are going for one to get some closure, and if there is two, the beans might get spilled in a deal later on. Any suggestion of two might complicate putting a perpetrator in prison? Just a thought, thats all. Not saying there is two.

Still miffed how they ended up in car so soon. Or subdued so fast even if they were in the car. Taser?
I thought he might end up with scratches on face if there had been altercation in car? Even if he was tall, still a hell of an effort?

In the case of the current POI, going home to a family? Or separation? There must have been scratches?

 

[Dan Baker]

The crazy thing was, Hungry Jacks used to be crazy busy. If there was that many people around, how the !@$% would you do an external abduction? That is a lot of risk even down the road? People were everywhere. Talk about perfect timing.

"Abducted from the street within close vicinity of each other"

 

[Kurve]

Fishbreath, I have faith in what police are saying. I do wonder though if they are going for one to get some closure, and if there is two, the beans might get spilled in a deal later on. Any suggestion of two might complicate putting a perpetrator in prison? Just a thought, thats all. Not saying there is two.

Still miffed how they ended up in car so soon. Or subdued so fast even if they were in the car. Taser?
I thought he might end up with scratches on face if there had been altercation in car? Even if he was tall, still a hell of an effort?

In the case of the current POI, going home to a family? Or separation? There must have been scratches?

Seems most of it happened when he was separated, the girls went missing on long weekends or early Saturday just after midnight. So while he'd want to get his dirty work done before dawn there was probably no rush to get home if there was nobody there to notice him sneaking in and turning the washing machine on. And he had a clear day to clean up before going back to work.

 

[Fish breath]

Fishbreath, I have faith in what police are saying. I do wonder though if they are going for one to get some closure, and if there is two, the beans might get spilled in a deal later on. Any suggestion of two might complicate putting a perpetrator in prison? Just a thought, thats all. Not saying there is two.

Still miffed how they ended up in car so soon. Or subdued so fast even if they were in the car. Taser?
I thought he might end up with scratches on face if there had been altercation in car? Even if he was tall, still a hell of an effort?

In the case of the current POI, going home to a family? Or separation? There must have been scratches?

I agree. There are complications - but I suspect most of them relate to the credibility of the police over the past 20 plus years. They've "had their man" before. Several times.

In terms of the actual abduction, I'm not all that sold on the taser method. Could be but I suspect something much more basic using a bit of subterfuge. Ted Bundy, for example, would ask the girl for directions & while she looked at a map, he'd knock her out with a blunt instrument. Or he'd fake injuries to get her off her guard.

Re the scratches, I absolutely agree there would have been defensive injuries. Think of Gerard Baden-Clay. Someone noticed and said nothing.

 

[Kurve]

I agree. There are complications - but I suspect most of them relate to the credibility of the police over the past 20 plus years. They've "had their man" before. Several times.

In terms of the actual abduction, I'm not all that sold on the taser method. Could be but I suspect something much more basic using a bit of subterfuge. Ted Bundy, for example, would ask the girl for directions & while she looked at a map, he'd knock her out with a blunt instrument. Or he'd fake injuries to get her off her guard.

Re the scratches, I absolutely agree there would have been defensive injuries. Think of Gerard Baden-Clay. Someone noticed and said nothing.

WA Police history of shabby investigative work and set ups is so bad, they may have trouble enough getting a conviction on one person they'd be doomed trying to charge another as an accomplice. Found this really good timeline, I had previously read all the CCTV had gone in after Jane went missing then later saw conflicting information that it was installed after Ciara was taken. Here it has the MACRO taskforce forming after Jane, so Ciara did disappear right under their noses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-cold-case-arrest-Bradley-Robert-Edwards.html

 

[Fish breath]

WA Police history of shabby investigative work and set ups is so bad, they may have trouble enough getting a conviction on one person they'd be doomed trying to charge another as an accomplice. Found this really good timeline, I had previously read all the CCTV had gone in after Jane went missing then later saw conflicting information that it was installed after Ciara was taken. Here it has the MACRO taskforce forming after Jane, so Ciara did disappear right under their noses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-cold-case-arrest-Bradley-Robert-Edwards.html

Damn, you're good! Yep I was reading the same thing last night! As you note, the police stuff-ups are cringeworthy. A conviction will be difficult - even with a mountain of evidence! Two convictions seems improbable. And as John Howard used to say, 80 per cent of something is better than 100 per cent of nothing. I just hope the cops have enough to nail this guy!

 

[Bunnie]

One punch deaths show us that one unexpected hit is all it takes to down someone fast. A hit and drag off into the dark would be quicker than we imagine. Ted Bundy managed to kill at least 30 women that way, possibly even more. I think CSK had a Bundy element to his MO (which i said in the last thread that was closed for comment).

 

[GreyCrow]

Trying to project 20 years back he would have been the slightly older non-threatening male who seemingly wouldn't hurt a fly. The few pics I have seen of the alleged murderer all give off a harmless vibe.

The Bundy analogy may be closer to the mark than anything

 

[Dan Baker]

WA Police history of shabby investigative work and set ups is so bad, they may have trouble enough getting a conviction on one person they'd be doomed trying to charge another as an accomplice. Found this really good timeline, I had previously read all the CCTV had gone in after Jane went missing then later saw conflicting information that it was installed after Ciara was taken. Here it has the MACRO taskforce forming after Jane, so Ciara did disappear right under their noses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-cold-case-arrest-Bradley-Robert-Edwards.html

Now they have rotating teams. It stops corruption. Not that they could afford too many Mallard events. They didn't have the DNA technology either. They have had international police come in from everywhere for this over the decades.
Review after review. Some POIs did themselves no favours in becoming a target. Unfortunately they may have had some behavioural attributes that made them a target, but no one was arrested.
From what I have heard, there is reasons why this has been a hard case to crack. Hopefully that will become evident.

 

[Fish breath]

So, 8 weeks from the last court date 'til the next appearance? That's a long time to think about stuff. To be alone or - if not alone - around some scary people. Hakea prison's no picnic. I assume that he's allowed visitors other than his lawyer? If I was a serial killer, I'd wanna get rid of my stash. I'd also be worried about all conversations being monitored. Dilemma! Also I'd be worried about prison snitches. I wonder how he's doing.

 

[Bunnie]

Now they have rotating teams. It stops corruption. Not that they could afford too many Mallard events. They didn't have the DNA technology either. They have had international police come in from everywhere for this over the decades.
Review after review. Some POIs did themselves no favours in becoming a target. Unfortunately they may have had some behavioural attributes that made them a target, but no one was arrested.
From what I have heard, there is reasons why this has been a hard case to crack. Hopefully that will become evident.

I think part of that is the seeming lack of escalation. He just. ...stopped... apparently. I do wonder if he just saved it for when out of town or changed his target (very rare)

 

[Kurve]

So, 8 weeks from the last court date 'til the next appearance? That's a long time to think about stuff. To be alone or - if not alone - around some scary people. Hakea prison's no picnic. I assume that he's allowed visitors other than his lawyer? If I was a serial killer, I'd wanna get rid of my stash. I'd also be worried about all conversations being monitored. Dilemma! Also I'd be worried about prison snitches. I wonder how he's doing.

Chatter out of there is that he's not a model prisoner, just chatter so until he gets charged with mucking up badly in there no way of verifying. Not talking to the police and there must be a heap of pressure going on so it might be right.

Edit: On his stash, I think he would have been watching carefully where they found the things Ivan Milat stole off his victims so it won't be in any of those places.

 

[Fish breath]

Chatter out of there is that he's not a model prisoner, just chatter so until he gets charged with mucking up badly in there no way of verifying. Not talking to the police and there must be a heap of pressure going on so it might be right.

Edit: On his stash, I think he would have been watching carefully where they found the things Ivan Milat stole off his victims so it won't be in any of those places.

One of the posters out there had an extensive dosier on prison life with the accused. He deleted it. I wish I'd kept it! But yeah. Things aren't doing too good at Club Shangrilah!

Just quietly, I think our boy has long since forgotten about Ivan Milat's raid. I reckon after 20 plus years, I reckon he would have thought he'd gotten away with it. I reckon he would have bought his stash back or at least visited it a few times. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't written to the police to boast how clever he's been in evading them so long. After all, what's the point of being infamous, if no one knows who you are?