Query Ross Faulkner footies in the AFL?

[Gibbsy]

I saw this picture when browsing through AFL Photos and was quite surprised to see a Faulkner footy being used in an official match as late as 1994, in a Round 8 match between Fitzroy and North. Strangely it's a yellow ball despite being in broad daylight. Would this have been the Roys' choice? Given all footies were sponsored by Challenge Bank by this stage, I'm surprised they were allowed to get away with a "cleanskin" in match play, a Faulkner no less.

I remember my first year of Auskick (2000) they had Ross Faulkner footies but I'm pretty sure from the next year onwards it was all Sherrin and has been ever since. One of the first links I saw when googling "Ross Faulkner AFL" was this interesting Yahoo Answers page in response to when the Sherrin was first favoured in the league.

Not sure of what year, however in the 60's through to 80's the umps walked the boundary during reserves games to visit the change rooms carrying 2 footy's for the opposition captain to choose one for the senior game. Collingwood captains always chose the Sherrin in away games and every opposition captain chose the Faulkner ball to stick it up the Pies so to speak, when playing games at Collingwood. T.W.Sherrin was involved with Collingwood for many years, and later his grandson also T.W.(Tom) Sherrin, managing director of the ball manufacturing business, became President of Collingwood . Tom Sherrin in a car, driven by his grandson Syd,was killed in an accident in Geelong after leaving a Geelong Collingwood game in 1977. From memory i think it was not long after that accident, that the Sherrin footy was endorsed as the officiall VFL/AFL footy, possibly in honor of his service to Collingwood and the game in general. The Sherrin ball business was later taken over by Spalding.

So, how much truth to the above anecdote - and what more do people know about footies used in the VFL/AFL? There was never any use of the Burley, surely?

 

[killer]

captains used to get a choice between RF and Sherrin dunno when that stopped

non Western Australians playin interstate football found burley the wrong shape or to big or some other excuse


kookaburra was used in Adelaide during the late 70s

the kookaburra football I had as a kid was a shoe box shape square ends

 

[killer]

other brands of football

Rover - HR Solomon
Chesson - JS Chesson
Fischer - Hugo Fischer
Lyrebird

must be heaps more

 

[Gibbsy]

other brands of football

Rover - HR Solomon
Chesson - JS Chesson
Fischer - Hugo Fischer
Lyrebird

must be heaps more

Haha, you got picked on at school if you had a Lyrebird! Poor man's Sherrin.

I always found the Burley too pointy, but then other people said they found it too round... what gives?

 

[Damon_3388]

I always found the Burley too pointy, but then other people said they found it too round... what gives?

Faulkners are the pointy ones. Leather spears.

 

[killer]

when did footballs go from brown to red? 1960s?

 

[killer]

Haha, you got picked on at school if you had a Lyrebird! Poor man's Sherrin.

I must have gone to a poor school cause nobody I knew owned a Sherrin

here's the dribble off the side of a 1990s Lyrebird

Lyrebird
Nutting and Young quality leather saddlers
established in 1880 developed Lyrebird footballs
in 1931 and supplied the market. Lyrebird footballs
once the ball of the Australian Football League were recognised
as one of the best footballs to own. Now Sherrin owns
the Lyrebird brand and will continue the tradition

also says Pride of Australia and Made in India on the top panel

 

[Gibbsy]

I must have gone to a poor school cause nobody I knew owned a Sherrin

here's the dribble off the side of a 1990s Lyrebird

Lyrebird
Nutting and Young quality leather saddlers
established in 1880 developed Lyrebird footballs
in 1931 and supplied the market. Lyrebird footballs
once the ball of the Australian Football League were recognised
as one of the best footballs to own. Now Sherrin owns
the Lyrebird brand and will continue the tradition

also says Pride of Australia and Made in India on the top panel

To be fair to you, the Sherrins we had were the $20 grippy or foamy ones. I didn't know anyone who had a leather footy until about Year 8.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Burley was always a WA footy, however the Burley brothers ( also developed burley bra) moved to WA from Bendigo (?) around 1900 and then developed the footy.

Ross Faulkner was apprenticed to Sherrins in 1908, there is a photo of the Sherrin staff in 1910 in the book - Sherrin, the family behind the football.

Faulkner although not named is probably in it.

Sherrin was a smart business man and was involved in Brittania which was the forerunner of Collingwood FC and the family is still involved in the club 130 or so years later.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Strategic relationships were certainly important for manufacturers of football products. It was therefore not uncommon for these men to occupy positions on football club committees. Faulkner officiated at Northcote and Fitzroy; Sherrin officiated at Collingwood; and Burley officiated at East Perth. Kenneth (later Sir Kenneth) Luke, who manufactured trophies and medallions, rose to the position of VFL President.

http://www.boylesfootballphotos.net.au/article39-The-Same-Game-A-Different-Ball#s_-_Ross_Faulkner

 

[killer]

Fred Burley ?
that would have improved the 1982 movie ("Undercover")
massively if they'd gone with a football angle

 

[killer]

this..... from the 15/07/1967 SA Budget

"
The move to have the South Australian squad train last
night with footballs made in Western Australia was a good one.

Almost always, SA teams have returned from matches in Perth
complaining that they could not handle the WA balls.

In the past these balls have been fatter and lighter than those
used here and in Melbourne.

While visiting players found them ideal for kicking screw punts,
they could not dropkick then effectively.

The WA balls are nearer to the SA and Victorian balls than they
used to be but are still lighter and once the SA players got the
hang of them they were kicking them "out of sight".
"

 

[Mr Ripper]

I saw this picture when browsing through AFL Photos and was quite surprised to see a Faulkner footy being used in an official match as late as 1994, in a Round 8 match between Fitzroy and North. Strangely it's a yellow ball despite being in broad daylight. Would this have been the Roys' choice? Given all footies were sponsored by Challenge Bank by this stage, I'm surprised they were allowed to get away with a "cleanskin" in match play, a Faulkner no less.

Photo is from the warm up; regulation red footies used in game (was the day of the Carey-Sartori incident).

 

[35Daicos]

Photo is from the warm up; regulation red footies used in game (was the day of the Carey-Sartori incident).

Good 'get'! Here's a bit of footage from the match:-

 

[Garlic muncher]

Looks like during a game rather than a warm up, but when you think about it, it is strange how no other players from either side are in the photo even in the far background.

 

[Gibbsy]

Photo is from the warm up; regulation red footies used in game (was the day of the Carey-Sartori incident).

Cheers Rip, I'll definitely back you in on that one. I was going to say, he doesn't look to be under much pressure!

 

[blueycarlton]

captains used to get a choice between RF and Sherrin dunno when that stopped

non Western Australians playin interstate football found burley the wrong shape or to big or some other excuse


kookaburra was used in Adelaide during the late 70s

the kookaburra football I had as a kid was a shoe box shape square ends

I have heard that when Carlton played Collingwood at Victoria Park and when the Blues won the toss they would always pick the Faulkner ball.

 

[Garlic muncher]

I have heard that when Carlton played Collingwood at Victoria Park and when the Blues won the toss they would always pick the Faulkner ball.

Makes sense, Sherrin family has been involved in the Collingwood club since it was called Brittania in the 1880's.

Did it to stir i guess, or a piss take or a combo

 

[Harry Hook]

Pre 1930 Trove reports are replete with references to the involvement of the Sherrin family in Collingwood. In fact TW Sherrin was a committeeman in the Britannia days and got awarded a gold watch for services as a committee man.

Charlie Dibbs, the Collingwood full back was employed by them.

As for the football itself, there are numerous advertisements on Trove pre 1910, which state that the sherrin Kangaroo football was the only football chosen for VFL finals and semi finals ( suggesting that others were chosen for home and away games) as well as the 1908 national championships.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Pre 1930 Trove reports are replete with references to the involvement of the Sherrin family in Collingwood. In fact TW Sherrin was a committeeman in the Britannia days and got awarded a gold watch for services as a committee man.

Charlie Dibbs, the Collingwood full back was employed by them.

As for the football itself, there are numerous advertisements on Trove pre 1910, which state that the sherrin Kangaroo football was the only football chosen for VFL finals and semi finals ( suggesting that others were chosen for home and away games) as well as the 1908 national championships.

Pretty sure he loved his footy and at the same time was a shrewd businessman pushing his agenda, which was his footballs along with other sports equipment.

Off on a bit of a tangent here, but although Collingwood was thought off as a Catholic Irish club, the initial committee and even the initial name of the club Britannia were far from it, they were in the main Protestant, Catholics stared appearing in the early 1900's, culminating in Jock McHale and John Wren having power over the club, but as far as Catholic clubs go, i would have thought North and Richmond were more Catholic oriented.

 

[footyfan1978]

I have heard that when Carlton played Collingwood at Victoria Park and when the Blues won the toss they would always pick the Faulkner ball.

Makes sense, Sherrin family has been involved in the Collingwood club since it was called Brittania in the 1880's.

Did it to stir i guess, or a piss take or a combo

There is an advertising board I swear I saw at Princes Park on weekend that still has the Ross Faulkner add there.

 

[Harry Hook]

There is a more prosaic reason why Sherrin was involved with Collingwood.

The factory at the time supplying the Kangaroo Match II football was located in Wellington Street in Collingwood.

So it is also safe to assume some, if not a lot, of the workforce, were also Collingwood supporters and given that people worked then 5 and a half day weeks, the half day being on Saturday, it was more logical for Sherrin to have an interest in Collingwood, as well as his employees.

 

[Harry Hook]

An article about Tom Sherrin from 1898 follows:


http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article58573007

You will also see that by 1902, Sherrin was the so;e supplier to the Victorian, SA and NSW leagues, to be used in finals.


http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article139804940

 

[Harry Hook]

Different footballs to sherrins were used in early games by Carlton as this 1903 excerpt indicates:


http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article197213731

Note the early complaints.

 

[Harry Hook]

I've been pottering around looking for some detail as to why Sherrins were used and came across this article about the Carlton 1908 premiership.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article202184000

Note the information about how Sherrin introduced a more rounded football for the 1908 carnival which was then used in the 1908 GF.

Then I found this article about the Goldfields league in WA, not the WAFL, adopting the Sherrin 1905, prior to the 1908 Carnival ball.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article211483319

Note that the GFA tested the Sherrin and the Gilberts ball ( which I'd seen referred to in advertisements) which presumably was more a rugby type ball.

A commentator in the Truth in WA in 1905 indicated that there was no appreciable difference

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article207391083



This Daily news article of 1905 suggests that there was a change in specs of the ball used.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article80013675

It would seem that the Goldfields league later may have decided to also use the "Fordham" ball in 1907

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article204559692


And there was further debate on the topic in he Goldfields in 1907

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article204559284


which is useful because it details the types and names of the ball in use at the time.

Meanwhile the Tasmanian league were using the "Vardon "Ball in addition to the Sherrin in 1912

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article10242139


The NTFA in Tasmania in 1929 decided to use a sherrin instead of a "N and Y" ball

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page3214632

Quite what and N and Y ball is I'm unsure.

Then in 1929 it was decided to use at the Carnival the Burley and the Sherrin

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article210497876

I've probably opened a can of worms here but what it appears is that there were a miscellany of bulls in use prior to 1907 under various names but Sherrin in 1908 took the lead but there was still the Burley/Sherrin divide in 1930.

Or is that too simplified.