No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

[FreoMonocle]

Logue may have a ready to play physique for AFL, but a physique alone is not enough. Yes he has skills, but that's colts level, done as a part time thing - vs AFL with a full time professional training load and the players he's defending on having for the most part 5+ years in the system.

There is nothing wrong with doing an apprenticeship, some time at peel is not a bad thing while he's also getting schooled daily at the club and dedicating more time to fitness than he's ever done. It's easier to correct your mistakes against a slower pace in WAFL, less fatigue means he can think it through in those matches. Rowers aren't slackers, they have to really push through the pain barriers rather than give up because it's hard, so if Logue is not slouching around he'll get through his apprenticeship quickly and can give us 10+ years at AFL level.

 

[theGav56]

As for the three amigos. Yes two of them only played 1 game in 2015 but we won the first 10 rounds. It's pretty hard to change your selections when you are winning.

Lyon is one of the most successful coaches in terms of win loss, and it is no surprise to me that given that he is also not inclined to gift games to first year players so that fans can have a wet dream about the future. He focuses on the here and now, which is what he was brought to Fremantle for. Others do the recruitment and development, and when he thinks are ready he plays them.

Gus's man makes a post listing many players who have had a taste early, and then wants to discount them for one reason or another. There are always reasons and always exceptions. But our development and best 22 balance looks pretty promising to me.

 

[meima]

Lyon is one of the most successful coaches in terms of win loss, and it is no surprise to me that given that he is also not inclined to gift games to first year players so that fans can have a wet dream about the future. He focuses on the here and now, which is what he was brought to Fremantle for. Others do the recruitment and development, and when he thinks are ready he plays them.

Gus's man makes a post listing many players who have had a taste early, and then wants to discount them for one reason or another. There are always reasons and always exceptions. But our development and best 22 balance looks pretty promising to me.

You probably right about that , that is the reason he is successful but not yet win the flag , because the focus is his best 24 , when suspension and injuries happen his hand is a bit tight . Geelong ,hawthorn all rest important players during home and away season , yet freo play until the players injured or rush them back too early , just check the gap of afl experience between freo players.

2015 hawthorn nearly top 4 because they don't want to rush roughead ,Sam Mitchell and rioli back from injury realize that age is catching up and take a longer recovery time.

 

[salim malik]

You probably right about that , that is the reason he is successful but not yet win the flag , because the focus is his best 24 , when suspension and injuries happen his hand is a bit tight . Geelong ,hawthorn all rest important players during home and away season , yet freo play until the players injured or rush them back too early , just check the gap of afl experience between freo players.

2015 hawthorn nearly top 4 because they don't want to rush roughead ,Sam Mitchell and rioli back from injury realize that age is catching up and take a longer recovery time.

Your facts are not right. In 2013 Luke, Sandy, Johnson, Pav probably Freos 4 main players spent significant time recovering from injury and were not rushed back. Last season Johnson, Fyfe, Sandy were not rushed back just to win a game and improve the win loss ratio. Lyon is not perfect but him rushing players back is bull s**t plus its not the coaches decision its the medical staff. You need to get over this constant criticism of Lyon.

 

[meima]

Your facts are not right. In 2013 Luke, Sandy, Johnson, Pav probably Freos 4 main players spent significant time recovering from injury and were not rushed back. Last season Johnson, Fyfe, Sandy were not rushed back just to win a game and improve the win loss ratio. Lyon is not perfect but him rushing players back is bull s**t plus its not the coaches decision its the medical staff. You need to get over this constant criticism of Lyon.

Not rush back ,because final is out of reach.if top 4 is possible . fyfe will play with 1/3 of his leg.

 

[Crippa]

Not rush back ,because final is out of reach.if top 4 is possible . fyfe will play with 1/3 of his leg.

Were Sandi and Pav rushed back to help us make top 4 in 2013?

Sandi played 7 games. Pav played 9. Meanwhile Kepler did his ACL in Rd 5 leaving us with * all talls up forward.

 

[meima]

Were Sandi and Pav rushed back to help us make top 4 in 2013?

Sandi played 7 games. Pav played 9. Meanwhile Kepler did his ACL in Rd 5 leaving us with **** all talls up forward.

2013 how old is pav and sandi, now Pav also retire and 2013 we got pre festival Zac Clarke, hannath and a younger griffin rucking for freo. Time flew isn't it. Older players will take longer recovery time if injured .

 

[Nickos66]

2013 how old is pav and sandi

30 & 29 or something?

 

[theGav56]

Seems like facts get in the way of your good story meima.

 

[Crippa]

2013 how old is pav and sandi, now Pav also retire and 2013 we got pre festival Zac Clarke, hannath and a younger griffin rucking for freo. Time flew isn't it. Older players will take longer recovery time if injured .

Hannath was a debutant and Griffin did his knee in Rd 7 that year - 2 games after Kepler went down.

How we came within within 3 points of snagging a premiership with 15 mins to go in 2013 remains one of the mysteries of the universe.

 

[blue shark]

Seems like facts get in the way of your good story meima.

The truth is somewhere down the middle, 2015 was the year we played McPharlin most of the year, only to lose him
just before finals.
Same year Mitchell kneed Fyfe, never quite reached the same level, and eventually broke his leg against Hawks.
Lyon is a good coach, his record speaks for itself, but I believe he could do better, and relies on his system, rather
than risk, its why Suban, Pearce, Dawson, Ibbotson, are still valued by the coach, rather than being phased out
slowly.
As with Elvis if we dont rotate, rest, can see the same result for Sandi, Johnson.

 

[Crippa]

Lyon is a good coach, his record speaks for itself, but I believe he could do better, and relies on his system, rather than risk

Hankering for the Mark Harvey days are we?

Here's what Pav had to say about a coaching style that relies on risk rather than system:

"I have no doubt that Harvs' football grounding compounded our issues in the latter half of 2011. That left-field thinking came to the fore: trying an obscure motivational technique, changing our training venue, exposing players to new roles. We would regularly apply impromptu and untrained methods at our stoppage structures, changing them in order to surprise the opposition. It was impulsive and while it had the potential to work in our favour, that outcome was reliant upon the remainder of our game plan and system being rock solid. It wasn't. Given our lack of success I accepted the need for some experimenting and adding some different elements to our game style, but ultimately it all made for reactive players who were thinking too much and not playing on instinct. Bad footy was the result."

 

[scon]

That was just before he said he thought he was the AFL's first Scottish-Croatian English to English translator.

 

[Crippa]

That was just before he said he thought he was the AFL's first Scottish-Croatian English to English translator.

Impeccable memory!

 

[blue shark]

Hankering for the Mark Harvey days are we?

Here's what Pav had to say about a coaching style that relies on risk rather than system:

"I have no doubt that Harvs' football grounding compounded our issues in the latter half of 2011. That left-field thinking came to the fore: trying an obscure motivational technique, changing our training venue, exposing players to new roles. We would regularly apply impromptu and untrained methods at our stoppage structures, changing them in order to surprise the opposition. It was impulsive and while it had the potential to work in our favour, that outcome was reliant upon the remainder of our game plan and system being rock solid. It wasn't. Given our lack of success I accepted the need for some experimenting and adding some different elements to our game style, but ultimately it all made for reactive players who were thinking too much and not playing on instinct. Bad footy was the result."

Mark Harvey was a crap game day coach, but his assistant who got the head job at Geelong wasn't. God knows why
we tried to endorse Scott, when he was the brains behind the outfit, and should of been set for promotion.
But Im grateful for what Harves did for Freo, and our list, as he was a good assistant, development coach.

 

[theGav56]

Mark Harvey was a crap game day coach, but his assistant who got the head job at Geelong wasn't. God knows why
we tried to endorse Scott, when he was the brains behind the outfit, and should of been set for promotion.
But Im grateful for what Harves did for Freo, and our list, as he was a good assistant, development coach.

Agree he was an ordinary game day coach, but Pavlich describing the random training exercises is even more disturbing.

 

[blue shark]

Agree he was an ordinary game day coach, but Pavlich describing the random training exercises is even more disturbing.

This was in 2011, Chris Scott left after 2010, we had made finals, defeated Hawthorn in an elimination final while he was
here.

 

[theGav56]

This was in 2011, Chris Scott left after 2010, we had made finals, defeated Hawthorn in an elimination final while he was
here.

Off topic, but I am not sure I would trade Lyon for Scott. They are probably on a par in terms of coaching prowess, but prefer Lyon's laconic, dry intelligence to Scott's theatrics.

 

[blue shark]

Off topic, but I am not sure I would trade Lyon for Scott. They are probably on a par in terms of coaching prowess, but prefer Lyon's laconic, dry intelligence to Scott's theatrics.

I'm hoping David Hale is highly regarded, and could be in line to coach next, either takeover from
Lyon. or another club.
As they say two heads are better than one, couldn't ask for two better, different coaches in Lyon and
Clarkson to learn from.
Having more astute coaches in the box, is that a bad thing?

 

[Righteo]

Such a banker haha. Has potential, that

That said, express your opinion without playing the man thx T0ecutter

 

[Unique Name]

What happened with Crozier?

Spent the last half of 2016 playing off the hbf and by all reports did fairly well. Quite a few media personalities listed Crozier's move to the half back as one of the few positives we could garner from the train wreck that was our 2016.

Crozier then spends all preseason training in the backline. Only to play the intra and JLT in the forward line.

One of the many issues we had/have as a team is our inability to move the ball quickly out of our backline. Weller, Crozier and the return of Johnson were seen as the hopeful answer to that issue.

--------------
Instead this is what round 1 is looking like for our backline.
Spurr - Dawson - Hamling
Weller - Johnson - Sutty
+ Ibbo

4 out of 7 - Spurr/Dawson/Ibbo/Sutty - Have been regulars in our backline for years now. None are noted as great rebounding defenders, but they are good at intercepting and negating. Hamling is a good pickup but again more of an interceptor/negator. So we have 5 of 7 defenders not noted for being effective rebounders. I'd say that wouldn't be an issue if we got back to our stingiest best, but..............

We just conceded an average of 91pts per game during the JLT. Considering Ross said he wanted us to build good form, we went in basically full strength and 2 of the 3 games were short qtrs due to the heat policy it's a little worrying. It's JLT though so not hitting the panic button just yet.

We're relying on Johnson and Weller to provide all the rebound. When the best teams have 3 or 4 rebounding options and only 1 or 2 lockdown type defenders. We are basically going in with the same backline that has struggled to rebound for a few seasons now + Weller. Even during our best years (2013 to the first half of '15) we weren't great at rebounding, more kicking long to a contest and bullying our opposition with big mids.

We're leaving our rebound to too few. If Weller or Johnson don't get enough of the ball then our rebound will struggle. If we want our rebound to improve we need more rebounders. This will be at the expense of an interceptor/negator.

One average-ish game at Peel shouldn't keep Croz out of the conversation. He's had a good preseason from what I saw and had a better 2016 than the likes of Sutty or Ibbo.



Anyway pointlessly long rant. Hopefully our backline clicks and it all works out.

Melt over.

 

[Righteo]

Totally agree, after all the talk of run from defence being a weakness, recruiting plenty of guys who can fill that need over the last few years and it all being reinforced by the Dogs winning the flag almost entirely due to their offence generated from HB, ultimately we're still lining up round 1 with plodders back there. ******* u wotm8

This is the place where you don't always need to be entirely reasonable so I'm going to proclaim that we need a combination of Ryan, Tucker, Croz/Weller/Logue in there sooner rather than later. The way we're currently looking to set up isn't even what you'd call a watertight defence anyway, so not only are we not picking a backline with almost no run but they're not particularly good at defending either. Time to embrace shootouts and sacrifice conservative structures for the new age run n' gun style that, if perfected, makes even a plodder team like West Coast look good

By the end of the year I'd be happy with something like:
FB: Ryan Pearce Weller
HB: Tucker Hamling MJ/Logue

 

[ydraw]

One average-ish game at Peel shouldn't keep Croz out of the conversation. He's had a good preseason from what I saw and had a better 2016 than the likes of Sutty or Ibbo.

Croz was close to best on for Peel on the weekend.

 

[ydraw]

I agree that having all of Dawson, Hamling, Johnno and Ibbo is probably too tall against most teams. Ibbo is the most likely to miss out of those if we decide to go for more runners.

 

[Proud SJW]

Why the * is the melt thread not a ******* sticky????

Came in here to post some s**t about how Ballantyne and Pearce not starting in round 1 and do you think I could find it?
Noooooo, 'course bloody not.
And before anyone says anything about new glasses, I can't ******* afford them. Just put the damned thing at the bloody top so me and every other blind bastard I can ******* find it.

So anyway. * Pearce and Ballantyne not being able to play from the beginning, why the * is the ******* same every ******* year. And who the *s stupid idea was it to get rid of Barlow.
Muck fee. Wasn't even worth typing, in the end. Muck Fee retired anyway.