Autopsy Fremantle vs Carlton - JLT Round 3

[blue shark]

D.Pearce is an outside mid. Stands away from the contest. Left footer. No doubt limited, can't go inside but we lack genuine quality outside mids. That's why B.Hill looks amazing, yet was fringe at Hawks.

So we have two Hills, a left and right footer, Stephen can play inside/outside, would rather one of the three amigos replace Danyle.
An outside player who doesnt lower his eyes, elte skills, the only thing Danyle has is speed, raking left foot, maybe suited to another position?

 

[meima]

So we have two Hills, a left and right footer, Stephen can play inside/outside, would rather one of the three amigos replace Danyle.
An outside player who doesnt lower his eyes, elte skills, the only thing Danyle has is speed, raking left foot, maybe suited to another position?

Maybe ballas role for d.pearce , he just need to score using his speed and work harder in his pressure and tackle.

 

[meima]

I would've been happy with an 18/19 year old tbh. They'd be more ready for AFL than a guy who scores 10.1 in a beep test.

Me too , I just use liam Ryan as an eg , if there is better players out there why not . But there is every possibility that player will turn out to be just equal or less to what we have like deluca ( play good footy in second half of wafl last year) ,just as liam Ryan might turn out to be Simpson if he just can't improve his beep test in professional environment.

Every draft pick come with risk , is up to players determination to succeed and development department to improve their game or weaknesses.

 

[theGav56]

Well that is true , I mean that is obvious mistake there to waste a senior spot with the recruitment of yarren when he can't fulfill the minimum 2 year requirements. I put it as the same categories as Colin slyvia. Defend all you like a mistake is a mistake and is the same scenario except Colin slyvia gone before the draft and yarren gone after the draft.

You and I might have different meanings for the word mistake. Using a late pick on a talented player is not a mistake, it is a risk. Just like it would be a risk with whoever you select. Very few of them would have much longer careers than Yarran had or play more games than he did. If they knew he was going to get charged for dodgey behaviour again but drafted him anyway, that is a mistake.

 

[meima]

You and I might have different meanings for the word mistake. Using a late pick on a talented player is not a mistake, it is a risk. Just like it would be a risk with whoever you select. Very few of them would have much longer careers than Yarran had or play more games than he did. If they knew he was going to get charged for dodgey behaviour again but drafted him anyway, that is a mistake.

Is my mistake to view a risk as mistake , I am sorry there .

 

[Unique Name]

Anyone worried how rusty Johnson is at the moment?

 

[Carnthedockers]

Anyone worried how rusty Johnson is at the moment?

Very. Hes a real confidence player, and he looks shaky. Got better throughout the game. Our back line looks very leaky, with a lack of foot skills and footy smarts.

 

[Square Peg]

So what does D Pearce bring to the table?

In a merit-based world, my drinks and a bowl of pretzels, with no expectation of a tip.

 

[freo1997]

Anyone worried how rusty Johnson is at the moment?

Very

 

[Mr Peabody]

Interesting that the Club has highlighted some of the commentary around the KPI's from the Coach's Presser.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-03-11/lyon-dissects-freo-v-blues.mobileapp

Freo scored 10.8 (68) from possession gains to Carlton’s 6.5 (35). “It’s a significant difference. You want to win that battle.” Lyon said. In 2016, skill errors proved costly. On average, Freo conceded 61.9 points per game on the turnover, the fourth most in the league. In the JLT Series, this average has dropped to 48.3 points points per game. When creating a turnover in the JLT Series, Fremantle scored 26.9 per cent of the time, which is the highest strike rate so far this pre-season.

Despite dominating the hit outs, everything seemed to go Carlton’s way on the scoreboard. The Blues scored 5.6 (36) from stoppages compared to Fremantle’s 2.6 (18). Lyon said it was a similar story against Collingwood, where Fremantle conceded 7.0 (42) and scored just 2.4 (16) from stoppages, despite winning the hit outs 29-21.

Need to watch the replay as I think it was Mark Duffield that asked if there was concern around ball use and RTB didn't think so stating the issues revolved more with our work from stoppages and less with ball use.

Thought it was a fair observation as I felt we were rather scrappy and missed targets quite a bit when in possession watching it live.

 

[Scham]

Very. Hes a real confidence player, and he looks shaky. Got better throughout the game. Our back line looks very leaky, with a lack of foot skills and footy smarts.

They're going to be heavily tested in Rd 1. Jonno will most likely have to pick up the resting ruck, Blicavs or Stanley.

I wonder if he'll play this week to try and get some more "touch"?

 

[poshman]

Enjoyed being there again Friday. Some passages of play when the hills and others had chains of possession where exciting. But they were few and far between.

+
Fyfe
Sandi
Hills
Cam

-
Skills
Dawson
Johnson (shaky)
Walters (accuracy on goal similar to last season)

 

[Unique Name]

Interesting that the Club has highlighted some of the commentary around the KPI's from the Coach's Presser.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-03-11/lyon-dissects-freo-v-blues.mobileapp

Freo scored 10.8 (68) from possession gains to Carlton’s 6.5 (35). “It’s a significant difference. You want to win that battle.” Lyon said. In 2016, skill errors proved costly. On average, Freo conceded 61.9 points per game on the turnover, the fourth most in the league. In the JLT Series, this average has dropped to 48.3 points points per game. When creating a turnover in the JLT Series, Fremantle scored 26.9 per cent of the time, which is the highest strike rate so far this pre-season.

Despite dominating the hit outs, everything seemed to go Carlton’s way on the scoreboard. The Blues scored 5.6 (36) from stoppages compared to Fremantle’s 2.6 (18). Lyon said it was a similar story against Collingwood, where Fremantle conceded 7.0 (42) and scored just 2.4 (16) from stoppages, despite winning the hit outs 29-21.

Need to watch the replay as I think it was Mark Duffield that asked if there was concern around ball use and RTB didn't think so stating the issues revolved more with our work from stoppages and less with ball use.

Thought it was a fair observation as I felt we were rather scrappy and missed targets quite a bit when in possession watching it live.

Any of our more astute posters care to give their thoughts. Why is our A grade midfield coughing up so many points? Is it a centre clearance issue or a stoppage issue? Are we positioning too agressively? Do we need one of our boys to play a more defensive role?

Over the last two games I don't remember any single opposition mid getting off the hook so is our midfield as a whole setup incorrectly allowing the opposition easy clearances. Is our backline out of position not ready to defend quick clearances?

Even if Fyfe dominates the night Danger and Selwood will still get plenty of quick clearances. Do we think this is something that could be easily fixed or should we be worried?

 

[Wally Walpamur]

Any of our more astute posters care to give their thoughts. Why is our A grade midfield coughing up so many points? Is it a centre clearance issue or a stoppage issue? Are we positioning too agressively? Do we need one of our boys to play a more defensive role?

Over the last two games I don't remember any single opposition mid getting off the hook so is our midfield as a whole setup incorrectly allowing the opposition easy clearances. Is our backline out of position not ready to defend quick clearances?

Even if Fyfe dominates the night Danger and Selwood will still get plenty of quick clearances. Do we think this is something that could be easily fixed or ahould we be worried?

I don't consider myself an astute poster, however, in 2015 when Crowley sat the year out, the first half of the season our midfield bossed it and we scored heavily while restricting our opponents. That was the final season we had Elvis. From my eyes, it's our defence structure and the form of the guys back there.

 

[meima]

I don't consider myself an astute poster, however, in 2015 when Crowley sat the year out, the first half of the season our midfield bossed it and we scored heavily while restricting our opponents. That was the final season we had Elvis. From my eyes, it's our defence structure and the form of the guys back there.

O yeah , the last year of sub rule . poor Tab always get sub out.

 

[scon]

Ross was making the point that they scored too often from stoppages and that it wasn't skill errors leading to turnovers which would have been potentially harder to fix.
He seemed to be saying it was more a sytem and structure than skill issue and consequently easier to make the necessary adjustments to stem the tide from stoppages.
The little I've seen of Tomahawk he seems to have trimmed a kilo or two and got over the back issues so is a lot more mobile and dangerous.I guess we'll put The Fist on him so likely his back issues will return,he'll put the weight back on and lose the mobility.All before quarter time.

 

[PurpleWizard]

Anyone worried how rusty Johnson is at the moment?

I'm surprised he's still walking after all his serious injuries. He's also 32 and don't think we should be expecting much from him anymore. Not really fair.

 

[Clems Knee]

Anyone worried how rusty Johnson is at the moment?

Not overly.
He did a lot right on Friday.
He missed / dropped a couple of marks that were sitters and had a kick from Griffin go over his head to the boundary line. They stood out, but he also did good work delivering the ball upfield and turning contested ball into a clear possession.

 

[Kunna17]

Any of our more astute posters care to give their thoughts. Why is our A grade midfield coughing up so many points? Is it a centre clearance issue or a stoppage issue? Are we positioning too aggressively? Do we need one of our boys to play a more defensive role?

Over the last two games I don't remember any single opposition mid getting off the hook so is our midfield as a whole setup incorrectly allowing the opposition easy clearances. Is our backline out of position not ready to defend quick clearances?

Even if Fyfe dominates the night Danger and Selwood will still get plenty of quick clearances. Do we think this is something that could be easily fixed or should we be worried?

I wouldn't consider myself an astute poster but I do find this an interesting topic and have some points I think are worth noting -
1) Clearance numbers don't always tell the full story. Quite often our clearances seem to be hack kicks out of the middle that end up marked by their defenders, whilst other teams seem to break forward and run the ball out seemingly too easily against us quite a bit. I think a lot of our clearances tend to lack potency (hence why S.Hill is going to be crucial on the inside) but when we do lose clearances, we lose them bad and teams can just waltz forward. From what I've noticed, when we play a defensive mid (Crowley, Barlow, Sheridan) our structure must be different as it seems as though we make it tougher for other teams to break forward.
2) Sandilands makes a massive difference, but can be our 'greatest weakness' - I am of the opinion that when Sandi is rucking, our midfielders have 100% confidence he will win the knock and set up for where it could go, other teams are also expecting this and thus set up for it and able to limit potency of our clearances. However WHEN/IF sandi doesn't win the knock, we aren't prepared for it and aren't ready to defend, hence other teams (who still have some offensive structure of their own can walk out with ease)

I only just noticed while typing but I believe maybe the Sandilands/aggressive set-up may be why we were able to defend better with a tagger - at least 1/3 mids was always ready to defend, and the others knew they had to help out.
The midfielders just had a basic reminder to play a 2 way game around the stoppages and not were aware that there were players on the other team to be shut down, despite the strong likelihood of Sandi winning.

Having said all that - I'm not in favour of playing a defensive midfielder, but maybe it might be worth assigning somebody a defensive role purely around the stoppages or slightly altering our structures (which Ross alluded to in an interview which I cant remember which one-may be post Carlton game)

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Our defence so needs APearce.

Let's hope we don't have to wait too long.

Saw him wearing his moon boot last week, so he's a long way off still.

 

[Steinfreo]

Over reaction on Johnno he always needs a little while to come good. he looked healthy which is most important. probably wont last.

 

[free at last]

Saw him wearing his moon boot last week, so he's a long way off still.

Sounds like AP might be struggling to even play in 2017 now....

 

[wayToGo_]

Why is our A grade midfield coughing up so many points? Is it a centre clearance issue or a stoppage issue? Are we positioning too agressively? Do we need one of our boys to play a more defensive role?

I've only re-watched the first half so far but here's my "to-half-time" analysis:

• In the first quarter the only stoppage clearances we clearly lost were when Kreuzer managed to grab first possession and kicked out of the stoppage himself - happened 3 times. Other than those I think we had first possession every stoppage (inc centre clearances) but a handful of times we turned it over from sloppy hand balls (often after a chain of them) and some silly frees against.
• In the second quarter we won first possession a vast majority of time again. Kreuzer didn't win first possession at all although he did win a couple of taps and we had a couple of first possessions against (Cripps mainly) that led to clearances against - but there is nothing I'd say we did wrong in the setups with those stoppages.
• Almost all of their goals in the first half came from our own sloppy work and frees against. Some of that was in stoppages but the worst ones were when we tried to switch the ball across half back (stuffed it every time).
• One of the turning points at the mid point of the second quarter was when at a throw in on our HFF, Rowe shoved Sandi right in the back (no free kick), Sandi off balance managed to grab the ball but then gets tackled and pinged for holding the ball. Following that they then kicked 3 goals straight from memory and got back in to the game.
• Other than that bad patch we were pretty dominant and should have really buried them before half time. We didn't, which is why I was a bit disappointed with our performance. I don't think we used our outside runners as much as we should have and often rushed our inside 50 entries. When we did use the outside run, we opened up the game and generally scored.

We dominated centre clearances and stoppages in the first quarter so didn't have to move the ball very far but in the second quarter there were three really good transitions from defence that moved the ball the length of the field and ended in goals:

• Johnson (kicks in right up the middle) -> Ibbotson (strong mark @ half back and handballs) -> SHill (continues running up corridor and handballs) -> Fyfe (brilliantly cuts through two defenders and kicks long to forward pocket) -> Kersten (runs on to ball, runs to goal square and easy kick) -> GOAL!
• Weller (kicks in to HBF) -> Tucker (marks and goes back to kick to wing) -> Sandi (contests in the pack against two defenders and taps to) -> Neale (runs on and kicks to) -> Ballas (marks on the lead turns and kicks on the run deep to) -> McCarthy (marks over the shoulder, goes back) -> GOAL!
• Spurr (intercepts @ HBF quick handball to) -> Hamling (quick handball to) -> Fyfe (amazing handball to) -> Langdon (runs and handballs over the top to) -> SHill (runs on and hand balls to) -> BHill (runs on and kicks to) -> Walters (marks @ HFF and runs to goal square) -> GOAL!

Will be interesting to see if the second half is much different when I get a chance. Stats only provide one dimension and can be a bit misleading until you re-watch and can pause and replay parts of the game (give the stats some context). I agree with most of what Ross said but in the first half at least our defensive work at stoppages looked fine to me - I am more concerned about our own ability to score from stoppages and think our inside mids need to look sideways as an option (finesse) rather than always trying to force it up the middle (steam roll) because bombed i50 entries rarely result in goals for us (especially with a short forward line) and it's also hard to defend from a stoppage turnover as it rebounds bloody fast.

 

[Wally Walpamur]

I wouldn't consider myself an astute poster but I do find this an interesting topic and have some points I think are worth noting -
1) Clearance numbers don't always tell the full story. Quite often our clearances seem to be hack kicks out of the middle that end up marked by their defenders, whilst other teams seem to break forward and run the ball out seemingly too easily against us quite a bit. I think a lot of our clearances tend to lack potency (hence why S.Hill is going to be crucial on the inside) but when we do lose clearances, we lose them bad and teams can just waltz forward. From what I've noticed, when we play a defensive mid (Crowley, Barlow, Sheridan) our structure must be different as it seems as though we make it tougher for other teams to break forward.
2) Sandilands makes a massive difference, but can be our 'greatest weakness' - I am of the opinion that when Sandi is rucking, our midfielders have 100% confidence he will win the knock and set up for where it could go, other teams are also expecting this and thus set up for it and able to limit potency of our clearances. However WHEN/IF sandi doesn't win the knock, we aren't prepared for it and aren't ready to defend, hence other teams (who still have some offensive structure of their own can walk out with ease)

I only just noticed while typing but I believe maybe the Sandilands/aggressive set-up may be why we were able to defend better with a tagger - at least 1/3 mids was always ready to defend, and the others knew they had to help out.
The midfielders just had a basic reminder to play a 2 way game around the stoppages and not were aware that there were players on the other team to be shut down, despite the strong likelihood of Sandi winning.

Having said all that - I'm not in favour of playing a defensive midfielder, but maybe it might be worth assigning somebody a defensive role purely around the stoppages or slightly altering our structures (which Ross alluded to in an interview which I cant remember which one-may be post Carlton game)

A couple more points to add from my observations:

a) our turnovers from centre clearances are a result of the quick no-look kick out of the contest to their loose man in defence, which they used to rebound with pretty good effect.

b) this preseason Sandi has used the 'hit it forward' tactic a bit more and I thought it was quiet effective. I'm not saying to always use this, or even use it a lot, but it's a good tactic to keep the opposition guessing.

 

[blue shark]

A couple more points to add from my observations:

a) our turnovers from centre clearances are a result of the quick no-look kick out of the contest to their loose man in defence, which they used to rebound with pretty good effect.

b) this preseason Sandi has used the 'hit it forward' tactic a bit more and I thought it was quiet effective. I'm not saying to always use this, or even use it a lot, but it's a good tactic to keep the opposition guessing.

Most teams have been working on their quick hands, and spread, get the ball outside to a free runner, ala
Hawks. The Bulldogs lifted the bar last year.
You don't need fast inside mids, to look fast, a fast mind, great handballers create time and space.
Trying to run through congestion at stoppages is taxing, and 1m handballs just sell your teammate
into trouble, or a kick in hope, is worse if the opposition get you on the rebound.
One of the best was Chris Judd, but he was on the move, rather than flatfooted, and Cox could hit, tap. to
advantage.