List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

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_Wildcard_ said:
Except you still refuse to accept that it has been changing for the last 18 months.
Even when actively shown the youth were being played last year prior to, and in spite of, injuries, you keep to this fallacy. And like every other ridiculous campaigner, you continue to assume that those in support of Lyon think he "does everything right".

I saw your effort in response to my questioning of who you would have played last year in place of Suban and co - you failed to give a good answer. You gave me a list of a few players in who had 9 or more games in the WAFL without taking into account who those players were, and why they only had 9 games in the WAFL (the obvious answer being that even the most cursory glance of that list highlighted that most of the players on it were injured at one point or another in 2016).

The only player on that list you responded with who could conceivably have consistently replaced Suban or D Pearce was Josh Deluca, who was delisted and picked up again this year - which is an indication of what the coaching and match selection staff thought of him as a Suban replacement. Even now, with us playing youth nearly everywhere, he still can't get a game. That should tell you something, at least.

As noted previously, the focus last year was on replacing Mzungu, De Boer and C Pearce rather than D Pearce and Suban - but you ignore that. Last year we were already playing kids in their places every second game even as far back as round 2 - before injuries took hold. You ignore that too. I gave you a list of 8 young players we put 92 combined games of footy into (not including Crozier and Sheridan) and, yep. You ignored it.
I mean let's not let facts get in the way of a good campaign, ey?


You don't even seem to recognise the differing circumstances and situational complexities between 2015, 2016 and now 2017 - to you, it's all been just one long samesametime.


There are people who say every opinion is valid, but when you can't back yours up with facts and continue to ignore indications that you are incorrect, your opinion becomes worthless.
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Just a minor correction , deluca injured in pre season ,will only be back after peel bye round . No big deal actually if freo keep winning .just in case ( more information is better)
 
_Wildcard_ said:
Except you still refuse to accept that it has been changing for the last 18 months.
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That is a huge point wardy simply cannot see. The number of changes to the side this year always needed to be carefully managed due to the simple fact that we had recruited 4 new players to our best 22 and had a raft of players returning from long term injury. And let's face it, the actual new guys are Balic and Logue, with all of the other "ins" having had significant development put into them. I think it also fair to say that those two have shown promise and deserve another game, but are being carried.
 
theGav56 said:
That is a huge point wardy simply cannot see. The number of changes to the side this year always needed to be carefully managed due to the simple fact that we had recruited 4 new players to our best 22 and had a raft of players returning from long term injury. And let's face it, the actual new guys are Balic and Logue, with all of the other "ins" having had significant development put into them. I think it also fair to say that those two have shown promise and deserve another game, but are being carried.
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Well being carried for 2 win . I will keep carry them until the team lost .
 

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_Wildcard_ said:
Except you still refuse to accept that it has been changing for the last 18 months.
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Has it.

Here's our 2015 Prelim final team.

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2015/26/fre-v-haw

Suban, De Boer, Dawson, Mzungu, Mayne all played in that game. The only 2 of our current crop of young blokes that got a game was Taberner, who was brought back for the prelim after 6 -8 weeks in the magoos, and Sheridan, who was the only new player to cement a spot in the side in the entirety of 2015.

Every single player on our list over the age of 25 who wasn't injured played in that game.

So please don't bullshit me and tell me that we've been building to this for 18 months. We started playing kids when our season was shot last year. We went back to spuds at the start of this year until it was looking like another wasted season, at which point we finally pulled the trigger.

Yes we played a few young blokes in rounds 1-4 last year, but we didn't play them in front of any of the usual suspects. They got games because we had a lot of injuries. You only need to go back and take a look at who played WAFL for us in 2016 to see that. There was at most 1 of the old guard playing each week for the first few rounds. We weren't playing kids, we were playing anyone who wasn't injured.

In round 6 of the WAFL we dropped Mzungu , Suban and De Boer back to Peel so we could play some kids after our season was gone. In round 7 we added Ibbotson. The narrative that we were playing kids from the outset of season 2016 is just false. The only "old guy" on our list not getting a game in round 1 was Matt De Boer.
 
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ydraw said:
Has it.

Here's our 2015 Prelim final team.

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2015/26/fre-v-haw

Suban, De Boer, Dawson, Mzungu, Mayne all played in that game. The only 2 of our current crop of young blokes that got a game was Taberner, who was brought back for the prelim after 6 -8 weeks in the magoos, and Sheridan, who was the only new player to cement a spot in the side in the entirety of 2015.

Every single player on our list over the age of 25 who wasn't injured played in that game.

So please don't bullshit me and tell me that we've been building to this for 18 months. We started playing kids when our season was shot last year. We went back to spuds at the start of this year until it was looking like another wasted season, at which point we finally pulled the trigger.

Yes we played a few young blokes in rounds 1-4 last year, but we didn't play them in front of any of the usual suspects. They got games because we had a lot of injuries. You only need to go back and take a look at who played WAFL for us in 2016 to see that. There was at most 1 of the old guard playing each week for the first few rounds. We weren't playing kids, we were playing anyone who wasn't injured.

In round 6 of the WAFL we dropped Mzungu , Suban and De Boer back to Peel so we could play some kids after our season was gone. In round 7 we added Ibbotson. The narrative that we were playing kids from the outset of season 2016 is just false. The only "old guy" on our list not getting a game in round 1 was Matt De Boer.
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That 2015 prelim team won a lot of games over a 3.5 yr period. They should've been some of your happier times as a supporter. They certainly were for me. The thing that made them good was the endeavor they showed which made the game plan work. That same endeavor helped in the last 2 games.
You would need a good crystal ball to tell you that the minor premiers (perhaps one bad sheridan kick from another grandy) would be over the hill a few months later.
 
ydraw said:
Yes, I find it very entertaining that people like Scon feel that winning 2 games with a completely different outlook, game plan and selection policy is vindication of their dogged support of the old, outdated, losing game plan and selection strategy.
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You're on another roll:rainbow::rainbow:
Just quote me where I dribbled like you did there and I'll believe it;CLICK HERE FOR THE SOURCE OF YOUR CONFUSION:
bricktop
 
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ydraw said:
It's not me doing the nose rubbing though, is it?

Here's 4 quotes just from today having a go. I hadn't posted in this thread until I read all these.
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Well I have said my side of the story and I will stick to it. I want to see Ross Rebuild this team. At least let him see out 2017.
 
ydraw said:
Has it.
Here's our 2015 Prelim final team...
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And yet again, you try to flip it and start talking about 2015.
I thought we were done with 2015. I don't care what the team makeup was in 2015. It has absolutely nothing to do with last season or this one.
There is a perfectly valid argument for sticking with an established team in a successful season, that has been discussed to death and I very much doubt there are too many people left who still want to argue about it two years later. 2015 is not 2016, and it's not 2017.
We've been here. Stop banging on about it. All you're going to achieve is getting a couple of likes from Banker.


Look, I'm not even going to bother with the rest. I've actually done the legwork, and posted about the team changes in early 2016 sometime last year - actual changes made and everything. I'm buggered if I'm going to go through it all again just because you've got the attention span of a gnat and about as much capability of backing up your words with actual facts as a Donald Trump staffer has.

Why don't you try something new. Back up what you're saying with, you know, actual facts. End of round five in 2016 was when we pretty much bit the bullet because of injuries, we can probably agree on that much.

Go and find the team selections for rounds two through five - who was dropped, who was brought in.
That'll tell you what the plan was before the season was derailed.

When you have that information, post it in here. Not just the bits you want to, but all of the team changes in the first few rounds. Think you can do that?

Let's see what you're really made of.
 

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As posted a few posts back, i have already looked up that info by looking at the WAFL team for the first 5 to 6 rounds of 2016. The only 2015 regular who was playing for peel in that period was De Boer.
 
DudleyDocker said:
When we win our first flag we will still have people on here crying that it should have been sooner.

I don't care who was right in 2016 or 2016 - we are on the build NOW and I am going to enjoy the ride!
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Ross Lyon - I like it .
 
The team that Ross assembles and the one that I - and pretty well everyone else might, aren't necessarily the same.

But he knows the list better and has to coach that squad. Unlike everyone else bar Clarkson and a mere handful of mortals in the last decade, he can get an AFL team to a grand final.

It is not drinking kool aid to back him in to do his job. If you think Ross is a useless hack, it's your opinion - he has taken teams to grand finals where you haven't, which is a fact and not kool aid delusion.

But knock yourself out, go and get your coaching accreditation and prove yourself better.
 
FreoMonocle said:
The team that Ross assembles and the one that I - and pretty well everyone else might, aren't necessarily the same.

But he knows the list better and has to coach that squad. Unlike everyone else bar Clarkson and a mere handful of mortals in the last decade, he can get an AFL team to a grand final.

It is not drinking kool aid to back him in to do his job. If you think Ross is a useless hack, it's your opinion - he has taken teams to grand finals where you haven't, which is a fact and not kool aid delusion.

But knock yourself out, go and get your coaching accreditation and prove yourself better.
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Could not have put it better.

Bloody sycophant.
 
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