List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

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FreoMonocle said:
But he knows the list better and has to coach that squad.
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In addition to which you've also got all the longer term KPI's,short term goals,player development,injuries,game time minutes,opposition strategies/game plan/players,big picture club priorities,blood sugar levels,sleep biorhythmso_O and whatever the fuq else they consider which the bigooty mug punter knows absolutely nothing at all about.

Interesting response from Lyon the other day when a journo described The Fist as a 'favourite' and Ross took exception to the term and what it represented.
Ross says 'It's a simple game!' quite regularly and that's true as far as it goes.However the simple games takes place in the context of elite athleticism,recruiting departments,opposition analysts,world class sports science departments etc etc and a massively competitive multi million dollar industry.
I have my opinions on selection but am working from a very limited perspective.
 
FreoMonocle said:
The team that Ross assembles and the one that I - and pretty well everyone else might, aren't necessarily the same.

But he knows the list better and has to coach that squad. Unlike everyone else bar Clarkson and a mere handful of mortals in the last decade, he can get an AFL team to a grand final.

It is not drinking kool aid to back him in to do his job. If you think Ross is a useless hack, it's your opinion - he has taken teams to grand finals where you haven't, which is a fact and not kool aid delusion.

But knock yourself out, go and get your coaching accreditation and prove yourself better.
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Ah yes the old "you haven't done it so you can't criticise" diatribe, zealotry at its finest.
 

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_Wildcard_ said:
Post it. Details, son. All the ins, all the outs. First five rounds. AFL team.
Hop to.
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No, you are perfectly capable of looking it up yourself.

That's a lot of research to do to prove a point to someone who has already made up their mind. I'm not going to spend my Sunday doing research for you.

I took the shortcut of looking at the WAFL teams for those 6 rounds. The only regular playing WAFL was De Boer. So as I said, we were playing kids to cover our injuries. Not as a result of any broad change of selection policy. Because we had nobody else to pick.
 
Mudd said:
Yes that would be the credentials of everybody on a football forum. :thumbsu:
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Forums of all kinds it seems, yet it doesn't seem to translate well into real life. Substituting employment history on a job application with "I was born knowing, so experience isn't a requirement for me" would no doubt be met with down votes, something this site is unfortunately lacking.
 
ydraw said:
No, you are perfectly capable of looking it up yourself.

That's a lot of research to do to prove a point to someone who has already made up their mind. I'm not going to spend my Sunday doing research for you.

I took the shortcut of looking at the WAFL teams for those 6 rounds. The only regular playing WAFL was De Boer. So as I said, we were playing kids to cover our injuries. Not as a result of any broad change of selection policy. Because we had nobody else to pick.
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You're quite right, I am perfectly capable of looking it up for myself, and I already have. Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned I'd already done that months ago, and posted it on these forums.
So no, Ydraw, you wouldn't have been "spending your Sunday doing my research for me", you'd have been trying to prove you actually know what you're talking about. Apparently, you can't do that. I think we all know why you won't.
I'm fairly sympathetic though, I'd imagine trying to prove 2+2=5 would be tough for anybody, really.

But I'll try to help you a little bit - when asked to cover the ins and outs of an AFL team, I suggest you do that rather than trying to weasel out of it by talking about the WAFL. Because when you do that, you tend to miss little things like "travelling emergencies" and fail to complete the picture.


I suppose I'm done now though, It's very boring arguing with someone who really doesn't have the capability of arguing.
So I'll just sum up this whole thing in terms more on your level of understanding:

PHHHTPTPHT.
 
Not sure why these arguments have to end up so polarized. Ross himself says it's never as good or as bad etc.
Lyon is a highly experienced, relatively successful senior coach with a strong record who took us to our first GF.
He's also stubborn & at times seems to lack imagination & creativity choosing to trust in hard work & discipline above talent or flair.
He lost me with the way he chose to start the year but when confronted by failure he's made some changes & come up trumps so far which proves he's still got the team on track.
There is no right or wrong here just an ongoing story with shades of gray


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Mudd said:
Ah yes the old "you haven't done it so you can't criticise" diatribe, zealotry at its finest.
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In case you are blissfully unaware, there is plenty of mention of Kool Aid and Sycophant in this thread. Which is exactly the "so you can't criticise" diatribe, zealotry" that you are calling me upon.

But to my post which is your case in point, in my opinion you are wrong, I haven't said or implied that Ross can't be criticised. I gave a critique that I think Freo supporters are muppets if they think that they have such a better understanding of both the game and player list, that they call for his head on a platter, their - and my - footy nous is clearly inferior as this dude has the runs on the board, we don't.

"It is not drinking kool aid to back him in to do his job. If you think Ross is a useless hack, it's your opinion - he has taken teams to grand finals where you haven't, which is a fact and not kool aid delusion.

But knock yourself out, go and get your coaching accreditation and prove yourself better."

This man has my respect, not because he has nice hair, not because of a cult following of his player years, the James Hird cult (for example) is a case of kool aid drinking. Ross however, has earned my respect from taking the laughing stock of the competition to a Grand Final, has a win/loss record that is even better than the mighty Clarkson even after last seasons miserable number of wins for us - and has taken 2 teams to the Grand Final (not many can say that). People sniping at him now, rode his coat tails through the Grand Final week, rode on the highs of all those unbeaten weeks in 2015 and don't deny it.

One bad year and people spit the gravy all over the chips, it is in many instances going beyond critique of his errors and just sniping and is contemptible. Can he do better, yep, critique away, but don't expect me to clap anyone on the back when they're jeering instead of critiquing.
 
To be fair to the Ross critics from the first two rounds (and I admit I was one) the changes we were pleading for essentially happened and from there our entire form line flipped.

Ross has really turned the ship around and good on him but he (and we) shouldn't forget his and the clubs failings that got us to that point, lest we regress again.
 

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At the conclusion of yesterday's game I noticed Ross acknowledging Hale in the coaches box.
Has he always sat right next to Ross, or is this just the past couple of games?
I might be reading something into nothing but I reckon Hale is having an influence and contributing to the recent change of game style ?
I'm sure all are giving input, I just think Hales input might be more pronounced.
 
Hazelsnuts said:
At the conclusion of yesterday's game I noticed Ross acknowledging Hale in the coaches box.
Has he always sat right next to Ross, or is this just the past couple of games?
I might be reading something into nothing but I reckon Hale is having an influence and contributing to the recent change of game style ?
I'm sure all are giving input, I just think Hales input might be more pronounced.
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As far as I concerned , some bf fan ask for his head here .
 
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Rion said:
To be fair to the Ross critics from the first two rounds (and I admit I was one) the changes we were pleading for essentially happened and from there our entire form line flipped.

Ross has really turned the ship around and good on him but he (and we) shouldn't forget his and the clubs failings that got us to that point, lest we regress again.
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Yep its been fail, fail fail since Lyon arrived at the club. 2012 To 2015 were such crap years. And the draftees from 2012 onwards fail, fail fail. I'm so glad that BF recognise these failings and are here to remind the club that if we regress again and depart from the BF plan for success the BF crew will be very, very angry.
 
Hazelsnuts said:
At the conclusion of yesterday's game I noticed Ross acknowledging Hale in the coaches box.
Has he always sat right next to Ross, or is this just the past couple of games?
I might be reading something into nothing but I reckon Hale is having an influence and contributing to the recent change of game style ?
I'm sure all are giving input, I just think Hales input might be more pronounced.
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I believe the seats next to a coach are, like short leg in cricket, occupied by the youngest and most naive member of the team.
 
salim malik said:
Yep its been fail, fail fail since Lyon arrived at the club. 2012 To 2015 were such crap years. And the draftees from 2012 onwards fail, fail fail. I'm so glad that BF recognise these failings and are here to remind the club that if we regress again and depart from the BF plan for success the BF crew will be very, very angry.
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No need for that. We just got the thread back on reasonable terms. All that was said was the first 2 rounds were disappointing & it's been turned around.
No need for the exaggerated hyperbole. That's what polarizes us all taking everything to extremes.


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E Shed said:
No need for that. We just got the thread back on reasonable terms. All that was said was the first 2 rounds were disappointing & it's been turned around.
No need for the exaggerated hyperbole. That's what polarizes us all taking everything to extremes.


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The continued failure talk is a furphy. Thats the kind of exaggerated hyperbole that polarises us and takes us to the extremes . No need for it .
 
Rion said:
To be fair to the Ross critics from the first two rounds (and I admit I was one) the changes we were pleading for essentially happened and from there our entire form line flipped.

Ross has really turned the ship around and good on him but he (and we) shouldn't forget his and the clubs failings that got us to that point, lest we regress again.
Click to expand...

Exactly
 
Our player retention rate being the best in the competition certainly says something different.
If he was a stubborn,unimaginative,obsessive control freak,who insists playing favourites regardless of how talented others are
with an utterly unchanging gameday stategy based in the 50's why aren't players leaving in droves??
 
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