List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

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scon said:
Then there's the 'supporters' who want him to fail so they can say "I told you so!"
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Who'd want Freo to fail just to say "I told you so"?

That doesn't make sense.
 
scon said:
Then there's the 'supporters' who want him to fail so they can say "I told you so!"
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Well I did not said I told you so , I said let him finish his contract rather than boot him off. As the payoff is too great . Hawthorn fall show that freo is not tanking last year but had a ageing list last season . Eagles will be next .
 

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Grape Bear said:
To be fair, we need to be careful not to get too far ahead of ourselves. Mundy, Sandi, and MJ are still to come out of our best 22, and we do not have ready made replacements for them. It won't be easy to cover the loss in quality and experience that quickly.
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Shut it . Freo just need to trade players in. Lobbs is just a player away from premiership . Mundy replacement ( Blakely,balic) MJ ( a.pearce , Cox ). Sandi ( no replacement loh). I did actually hawthorn Box hill list nothing to worry about for another 5 year .
 
Good old clarkson too big ego to call for help .

His AA squad
Roughead -> no replacement
Rioli - no replacement
Gibson - no replacement
Burgoyne - no replacement
Hodge - no replacement

Good luck big big hole even with genius game plan .
 
scon said:
Agreed that's why I put the quotation marks around supporters.
Don't know how much you read these pages but there's a fair amount of what I described.
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I don't read too much.
Just passing through.
 

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Given that footy runs in cycles (because of al the equality measures) the trick is to actually win flags on the way up/before you go down.

Extending the 'up' time is good if it means you actually get flags. (Or at least a shot like sydney have been).

the disaster scenario is what freo have done, what st kilda did previously, Adelaide in the Neil Craig days and what Bulldogs did in the eade era.

If the fall is inevitable then it's about how to avoid a 5-10 year rebuild.

Given the swans made a grand final with 5 or 6 guys under 50 then they're doing well.

Geelong have staved off the drop but remains to be seen if they'll get in flag territory before they drop off again. I reckon Scott might have built a good side that won't ever become a great side. So cats are definitely in front of us at the moment but it's not about your aggregate performance it's how many high peaks you make that count.

So Hawks have slid this season and that gc game was a disaster. I think we will steady this year rather than finish bottom 4 / but I think we're going to look beyond 17/18 for our next flag. .
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Can someone with more nous than me explain how what we have done with our rebuild is a disaster as opposed to what Geelong or the Hawks have done? (Sydney is an exception because the academy concessions are a massive rort, so they will be up and about by next year given the quality they have brought in even after finishing at the top the last few years). Hawthorne seems to have fallen off an even bigger cliff than we have.
 
Grape Bear said:
Can someone with more nous than me explain how what we have done with our rebuild is a disaster as opposed to what Geelong or the Hawks have done? (Sydney is an exception because the academy concessions are a massive rort, so they will be up and about by next year given the quality they have brought in even after finishing at the top the last few years). Hawthorne seems to have fallen off an even bigger cliff than we have.
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We didn't trade all of our first and second round picks for established players over the past 10 years and we lucked out in that four young WA boys wanted to come home last season, filling positions on our list where players had passed their prime or weren't filled to begin with.

Edit: another thing being overlooked is that they've lost a lot of on field leadership and don't look like having any young leaders coming through. Mitchell and Lewis traded out, Gibson and Burgoyne cooked, Hodge maybe last year and this leaves it all on Roughead's shoulders. Massive problems at Hawthorn.
 
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lw11 said:
We didn't trade all of our first and second round picks for established players over the past 10 years and we lucked out in that four young WA boys wanted to come home last season, filling positions on our list where players had passed their prime or weren't filled to begin with.
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That's what I mean. I'm a bit baffled at what some people are saying on the main board that our team has totally been driven off the cliff. I know we have no flag to show for it, but no one can say we haven't given it a fair shake and come close the last 4 years prior to our drop in 2016. We aren't by any means out of the woods, with players like Mundy, MJ, and Sandi in their 30s with no heirs apparent, but our core of the two Hills, Walters, Fyfe, and Neale is a pretty solid foundation to build on. It's a shame we are still lacking players for our spine that are within the same age group.
 
Grape Bear said:
That's what I mean. I'm a bit baffled at what some people are saying on the main board that our team has totally been driven off the cliff. I know we have no flag to show for it, but no one can say we haven't given it a fair shake and come close the last 4 years prior to our drop in 2016. We aren't by any means out of the woods, with players like Mundy, MJ, and Sandi in their 30s with no heirs apparent, but our core of the two Hills, Walters, Fyfe, and Neale is a pretty solid foundation to build on. It's a shame we are still lacking players for our spine that are within the same age group.
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I was just about to say that I think our spine is fine, we just need a KPF and an eventual replacement for Sandi.
A Pearce - Hamling - Sandi - Fyfe - Neale - Mundy (Blakely or Balic) - McCarthy - Kersten (need to upgrade)

Outside of this we have the Hills on the wings and then the usual suspects, Weller, Tucker, Langdon, Logue et. al.

If Strnadica can build some size he could be a crucial player. Has a strong grab and is a good kick, just not ready for AFL from a physical perspective.
 
I think it's a half dozen of one, 6 of the other Grape Bear.

Our list, along with Hawthorns has taken a battering from getting poor draft picks for so long. Well worth it, if you can try and have a crack at Grand Finals you do it, no questions asked.



As for our list, crikey moses, if we weren't so lucky with those 4 trades and just went to the draft, we'd be sitting at 0-4 and deeply in the poo, with everyone in AFL land melting over it still.

Once Mundy, MJ and Sandi are gone, we will be light on the 26 to 32 year olds, we'll be missing a stack of experience. Couple this with being light on top end draft picks in the squad. If we don't bottom out this year, we'll miss out on the bonanza year for tall forwards - and even with McCarthy we could do with a KPF, and our Ruck stocks if Sandi retires or gets injured are dismal (though we have Darcy and Stradnica, who may develop nicely for us in 2-3 years).

We need either more luck with diamonds in the rough (the Balic's, Neales or Brownlow medalists at pick #20), or to fill our holes with money - ie trades - and we've sucked at it in general over the years, or we need at least one more horror season where we can get top draft picks.

But we may do average this year, rather than bottoming out again. We're in a position that if we replenish our list with average talent from finishing somewhere around the 8, it will perpetuate as our average list will get us average results (and neither a GF nor good draft picks for a future GF).


But then there is the Academy, Chris25 is reporting that it's slim pickings for us this year, but we might win Lotto via it in the coming years, fingers crossed.
 
Ripper said:
In fairness the forst two were highly rated and slipped because of Height (Neale) and injury (Balic).
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Maybe I didn't put it well, I wasn't meaning to throw "nasturtiums" in regards to them, just saying that we were lucky to get them - and probably shouldn't have gotten them in the draft.
 
This is our under 26yr old side. Ross/Lloyd/Bondy have 4 years to improve on it/gel it together and get a flag with it.

Ryan - A Pearce - Logue
Weller - Hamling - Tucker
B Hill - Neale - S Hill
Bennell - McCarthy - Crozier
Walters - Apeness - Kersten

Darcy - Fyfe - Blakely

Sherro - Langdon - Balic - Hughes

Depth:
Collins, Uebergang, Nyhuis, Duman, Taberner, Deluca, Cox, Strnadica.

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- Biggest issue for me is Apeness. Can he be a main target and take the biggest defender away from McCarthy and Kersten. Can he be the Fwd/Ruck we need? Hopefully he can get 15+ games this year so we get some idea.
- Kersten's last two games have been promising. Can he continue to improve. We need him averaging closer to 2 goals a games. Mitch McGovern could still be a target.
- Walters seems to be playing more as the small forward this season do far. We need a crumbing forward for depth.
- Sean Darcy, In the Sandi mold of tap ruckmen. Will he provide enough of an advantage at stoppages to make up for his lack of around ground play/agility. Would love to know where the club are at with Clarke. Save trading someone in if he can be a stop gap until Sean is ready.
- Backline small/medium defenders. Are the likes of Hughes/Ryan/Nyhuis good enough.
 
I don't know about the rest of you, but I am relishing the Hawks (and Sydneys) 0-4.

Following on from Grape Bears post (again), there is a thread on Hawthorn and it's draft nightmare problem on the main board https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hawthorn-fc-worst-nightmare-the-2017-draft.1163091/ (edited, I posted the wrong link)

The essence of which is they will probably bottom out this year and should have the first really good draft pick in a long time (same as us last year), but they traded future picks last year and the first pick they can use is the 2nd round pick from GWS - and GWS will do well this year. So probably their first pick is #32 or beyond, when it looks like they could have been eligible for pick 1, 2 or 3 (and pick 19,20 or 21 etc).
 
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I worry that we haven't quite bottomed out yet, and this run of wins is a false spring. Looking at the last 3 wins, it was our elder statesmen in Mundy, Sandi, and MJ who were tremendous for us at the death. Don't know how much longer we will have them for, as at that age bracket form and bodies can turn around really quickly. I'm particularly worried about Sandi, as we've been working him triple time with no relief.

There's part of me that thinks we would be better off with one more low draft pick rather than one mid-pack, but I think that these close come back wins are invaluable for building team culture and giving our promising young boys more of a reason to stay even if there will be a period of being at the bottom. It also teaches them how to win (I.e. See Melbourne and North for examples of teams that need to learn to win).
 
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