Opinion Round 5 Changes vs. North Melbourne

[Moo]

I'd be very reluctant to make any changes that were not mandated by general soreness or injury.

Tabs, Tucker and Sutcliffe are the only ones I can see on the boarding deck and they nicely give us cover with a tall, runner and medium defender.

We just have to just keep pumping games into the likes of Balic, Weller & Langdon ....I'm OK for 1 or 2 outs, however really don't want to see the old guard back in ....play the kids, embrace the pace and most importantly enjoy the ride.

Personally I'd play Hughes minimum 1 more game and perhaps rotate Logue back to Peel and give Tucker another run. Just love the way Tucker has responded to being dropped and always like to see reward given. MJ doing a bang up job as 2nd ruck, Tabs has to wait his turn and hopefully grab his chance (not just get his hands to it).

 

[Unique Name]

"Embrace the pace"

Love it.

 

[Freo Dr]

Could Fremantle be pioneering the concept of the Defender/Ruck?
MJ doing ok ATM but close to the end, maybe Alex Pearce could be looked at for this in time - has the height?

We have been trying to find a fwd/ruck with Apeness, Griffen and now Taberner - no luck so far.

Logue in time could give us the flexibility to do that - plays mid and goes back when AP goes in the ruck.

Tucker and Taberner are knocking on the door from what I hear but if the team is winning it is hard to justify changes..

 

[dockerfemme]

Could Fremantle be pioneering the concept of the Defender/Ruck?
MJ doing ok ATM but close to the end, maybe Alex Pearce could be looked at for this in time - has the height?

We have been trying to find a fwd/ruck with Apeness, Griffen and now Taberner - no luck so far.

Logue in time could give us the flexibility to do that - plays mid and goes back when AP goes in the ruck.

Tucker and Taberner are knocking on the door from what I hear but if the team is winning it is hard to justify changes..

I don't think we are pioneering as Port did it 2-3 years ago with Jackson Trengove and Matthew Lobbe.

I think "embrace the pace" should be our mantra.

 

[DudleyDocker]

I don't think we are pioneering as Port did it 2-3 years ago with Jackson Trengove and Matthew Lobbe.

I think "embrace the pace" should be our mantra.

As opposed to our earlier mantra "embrace the pacemaker".

 

[wild side]

Ibbo tackled petracca with 10 mins to go in the 3rd quarter straight in front of goal without the ball, was a rookie mistake for a seasoned vet.

lucky he wasn't penalized, so i'd suggest he's under the most pressure.

 

[wayToGo_]

Without Johnson in defense 4th quarter we lose that game to Melbourne.

If you bring Tabs in it needs to be for Ibbo - move Logue back, Tabs ruck / forward.

Yeah I agree, it would have to be Tabs for Logue or Ibbo and I don't think that's a smart move at all. Great to see Tabs stringing some bags of goals together for Peel but he also needs to show he can compete in the ruck and that he's willing to apply forward pressure to add something valuable to the current B22.

Logue's pressure when he moved forward was fantastic and he was very close to taking a couple of great contested marks inside 50. A smart move might be to start him forward and then swing him back if we need more support in the back line (e.g. when MJ is rucking). McCarthy, Kersten, Mundy, Logue, Walters, Neale, Grey, Fyfe, Crozier and Balic is 10 possible forwards that can all apply very good pressure, quite a few can take a contested grab, all are very mobile, and half of them are also fast. If those guys are up and about once the ball comes i50 they should be able to lock it in - like the 3rd qtr but for 3 more qtrs please. Sure it expends a fair bit of energy but not as much having to race down field to defend when it rebounds out too easily over and over again.

Ideally our midfield bursts in the 1st quarter, we lock the ball in with manic pressure and stress out their defenders so they are second guessing themselves (like ours were in Rds 1 & 2).

The only change I'd consider is Tucker in to give us another outside runner that can apply midfield pressure and deliver well inside 50. But who goes out? Spurr has been pretty good on Lindsay Thomas so not him. We need Grey's pressure i50 still I think. Logue is progressing well so not him yet. Ibbo possibly but with MJ rucking his experience down back might be needed for the moment. IMO those four are the most at risk though.

 

[schnoods]

Could Fremantle be pioneering the concept of the Defender/Ruck?
MJ doing ok ATM but close to the end, maybe Alex Pearce could be looked at for this in time - has the height?

We have been trying to find a fwd/ruck with Apeness, Griffen and now Taberner - no luck so far.

Logue in time could give us the flexibility to do that - plays mid and goes back when AP goes in the ruck.

Tucker and Taberner are knocking on the door from what I hear but if the team is winning it is hard to justify changes..

Apeness is probably the better prospect of a ruck forward. I think Tabener would be wasted in the ruck with his tank, would be like Nick Riewoldt in the ruck. Griffin is a pure ruck that doesn't offer enough at ground level or in a marking contest. Plus his kicking is a coin flip.

I honestly think Johnson in the ruck has worked well for the coverage our midfielders put on the opposition mids. The pressure affects stoppages, pressuring structures and ball delivery into turnovers.

Pearce could definitely fill the roll provided our pressure is high and our transition is quick. It also helps when our 4 turnover merchants aren't in the team (Sutcliffe, Pearce, Dawson , suban).

 

[Tbonefreo]

By the time we get a decent ruck/forward, the trend will change again and we will be back at square 1.

 

[theGav56]

they are a guide but they are used in every game as a guide to show all the important aspects of the game.

pressure acts should be another. Look what got us to a grand final. It was a whole team of players putting pressure on the opposition and that's what these young guys are bringing to the table to win the past couple of games. It's not all down to skill and disposal efficiency

Yes, although pressure on the opposition impacts their disposal efficiency. That is, it could be a useful indicator of pressure football and skill under pressure.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

You're right. We should only play players based on the last game they played.

Sandilands out.

As oppose to two games?

 

[_007_]

As oppose to two games?

Not really sure what you're getting at but I wasn't serious in that post.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

Not really sure what you're getting at but I wasn't serious in that post.

Realised I was replying to a message from Saturday. Context is probably over by now

 

[Proud SJW]

List of medium/small players who can play Spurr's position;

Tucker, Hughes, Ibbotson, Weller, Crozier, Grey, Sutcliffe, Duman, Ryan, Logue, Sheridan and Nyhuis.

You're talking long term, I was talking about not dropping Spurr anytime soon (i.e. for round five) in the changes for round five thread.
I realise I might have gone a little OT talking about potential draft options, but point remains - we can't drop Spurr anytime soon.
Of those players you listed, most of them already have a spot, Deluca is injured, Sutcliffe is simply not an upgrade on Spurr right now, and the others are nowhere near ready to replace one of few remaining experienced defenders - particularly the small one.

I realise everyone's all on the play the youth bandwagon right now, but there's no point in being silly about it. Teams of kids get beaten to hell and back, usually, and we're trying to establish a confident team right now.
Next year, sure, maybe. Maybe even later this season, if things go bad for Spurr.
But right now? You'd be a damned fool to replace him. Let's not get completely stupid about this "playing the kids" thing.

 

[meima]

Anything is possible.

 

[_007_]

You're talking long term, I was talking about not dropping Spurr anytime soon (i.e. for round five) in the changes for round five thread.
I realise I might have gone a little OT talking about potential draft options, but point remains - we can't drop Spurr anytime soon.
Of those players you listed, most of them already have a spot, Deluca is injured, Sutcliffe is simply not an upgrade on Spurr right now, and the others are nowhere near ready to replace one of few remaining experienced defenders - particularly the small one.

I realise everyone's all on the play the youth bandwagon right now, but there's no point in being silly about it. Teams of kids get beaten to hell and back, usually, and we're trying to establish a confident team right now.
Next year, sure, maybe. Maybe even later this season, if things go bad for Spurr.
But right now? You'd be a damned fool to replace him. Let's not get completely stupid about this "playing the kids" thing.

I don't really want to harp on about it but I don't think we would lose anything whatsoever by having Tucker replace Spurr. Ability trumps experience in any job, especially elite sport. I'd say we have 1 good kick in our backline (Weller, possibly Johnson but not in recent years imo) at the moment and we should be aiming for a minimum of 3.

 

[Scham]

I don't really want to harp on about it but I don't think we would lose anything whatsoever by having Tucker replace Spurr. Ability trumps experience in any job, especially elite sport. I'd say we have 1 good kick in our backline (Weller, possibly Johnson but not in recent years imo) at the moment and we should be aiming for a minimum of 3.

I agree but not this week. Spurr will do a good job on Thomas and besides, I think Tucker will be needed to replace Hill in the 22. By 2/3 of the way through the season we need to have found a better option in the BP than Spurr.

 

[Frimental Fan]

Yeah I agree, it would have to be Tabs for Logue or Ibbo and I don't think that's a smart move at all. Great to see Tabs stringing some bags of goals together for Peel but he also needs to show he can compete in the ruck and that he's willing to apply forward pressure to add something valuable to the current B22.

Logue's pressure when he moved forward was fantastic and he was very close to taking a couple of great contested marks inside 50. A smart move might be to start him forward and then swing him back if we need more support in the back line (e.g. when MJ is rucking). McCarthy, Kersten, Mundy, Logue, Walters, Neale, Grey, Fyfe, Crozier and Balic is 10 possible forwards that can all apply very good pressure, quite a few can take a contested grab, all are very mobile, and half of them are also fast. If those guys are up and about once the ball comes i50 they should be able to lock it in - like the 3rd qtr but for 3 more qtrs please. Sure it expends a fair bit of energy but not as much having to race down field to defend when it rebounds out too easily over and over again.

Ideally our midfield bursts in the 1st quarter, we lock the ball in with manic pressure and stress out their defenders so they are second guessing themselves (like ours were in Rds 1 & 2).

The only change I'd consider is Tucker in to give us another outside runner that can apply midfield pressure and deliver well inside 50. But who goes out? Spurr has been pretty good on Lindsay Thomas so not him. We need Grey's pressure i50 still I think. Logue is progressing well so not him yet. Ibbo possibly but with MJ rucking his experience down back might be needed for the moment. IMO those four are the most at risk though.

 

[Frimental Fan]

Yeah I agree, it would have to be Tabs for Logue or Ibbo and I don't think that's a smart move at all. Great to see Tabs stringing some bags of goals together for Peel but he also needs to show he can compete in the ruck and that he's willing to apply forward pressure to add something valuable to the current B22.

Logue's pressure when he moved forward was fantastic and he was very close to taking a couple of great contested marks inside 50. A smart move might be to start him forward and then swing him back if we need more support in the back line (e.g. when MJ is rucking). McCarthy, Kersten, Mundy, Logue, Walters, Neale, Grey, Fyfe, Crozier and Balic is 10 possible forwards that can all apply very good pressure, quite a few can take a contested grab, all are very mobile, and half of them are also fast. If those guys are up and about once the ball comes i50 they should be able to lock it in - like the 3rd qtr but for 3 more qtrs please. Sure it expends a fair bit of energy but not as much having to race down field to defend when it rebounds out too easily over and over again.

Ideally our midfield bursts in the 1st quarter, we lock the ball in with manic pressure and stress out their defenders so they are second guessing themselves (like ours were in Rds 1 & 2).

The only change I'd consider is Tucker in to give us another outside runner that can apply midfield pressure and deliver well inside 50. But who goes out? Spurr has been pretty good on Lindsay Thomas so not him. We need Grey's pressure i50 still I think. Logue is progressing well so not him yet. Ibbo possibly but with MJ rucking his experience down back might be needed for the moment. IMO those four are the most at risk though.

Tabs in for Logue is the change I'd like to see. Give MJ the week off rucking, so he can be full time minding the North talls. BTW, below is a comparison between Tabs and Darcy Moore over their careers. Tabs a rookie versus DM a first round pick. Tabs has played 15 more games but I reckon was subbed off 15 times (at least) in his career so far. The averages are not that far apart and they're similar sized players. Moore has got a big leap but Tabs has got a bigger tank.

He has now put four very solid games together at Peel. People knock him for dropping marks but don't seem to criticise Cam Mac for the same thing? The big thing with both these guys is that they have the speed (Tabs not so much) and endurance (Tabs plenty) to present and that they don't get outmarked. I think he will compliment Cam Mac and Kersten very well because they can all get up the ground and back at speed. Tabs and Kersten can work the wings when we are coming out of the back half with Cam Mac playing a bit deeper. It's good to have the extra tall because Tabs will take the biggest and strongest KPD and he'll have most of those guys covered for speed/endurance. This means that Kersten and Cam Mac get No. 2 and No. 3 respectively. The exception would be if it's wet, in which case Tabs goes out in favour of an extra runner............ Bring on Saturday night. it should be a ripper game!!!!!!!!!

 

[wayToGo_]

Tabs in for Logue is the change I'd like to see. Give MJ the week off rucking, so he can be full time minding the North talls. BTW, below is a comparison between Tabs and Darcy Moore over their careers. Tabs a rookie versus DM a first round pick. Tabs has played 15 more games but I reckon was subbed off 15 times (at least) in his career so far. The averages are not that far apart and they're similar sized players. Moore has got a big leap but Tabs has got a bigger tank.

He has now put four very solid games together at Peel. People knock him for dropping marks but don't seem to criticise Cam Mac for the same thing? The big thing with both these guys is that they have the speed (Tabs not so much) and endurance (Tabs plenty) to present and that they don't get outmarked. I think he will compliment Cam Mac and Kersten very well because they can all get up the ground and back at speed. Tabs and Kersten can work the wings when we are coming out of the back half with Cam Mac playing a bit deeper. It's good to have the extra tall because Tabs will take the biggest and strongest KPD and he'll have most of those guys covered for speed/endurance. This means that Kersten and Cam Mac get No. 2 and No. 3 respectively. The exception would be if it's wet, in which case Tabs goes out in favour of an extra runner............ Bring on Saturday night. it should be a ripper game!!!!!!!!!
View attachment 359466

I have somewhat the same thinking but like I said in my post, Tabs isn't great at forward pressure (and not great at rucking either). Having just one forward that isn't putting the pressure on can cause the whole system to fail. I'd also question whether he'd take the pressure off Cam Mac by drawing the best KPD. The best KPD will play on the best forward, not just the tallest one. Otherwise Pav wouldn't have been drawing the best KPD last year

 

[Frimental Fan]

I have somewhat the same thinking but like I said in my post, Tabs isn't great at forward pressure (and not great at rucking either). Having just one forward that isn't putting the pressure on can cause the whole system to fail. I'd also question whether he'd take the pressure off Cam Mac by drawing the best KPD. The best KPD will play on the best forward, not just the tallest one. Otherwise Pav wouldn't have been drawing the best KPD last year

I think Tabs' defensive pressure is OK (avge tackles >2). We've been exposed in the past when Tabs, Pav and Griff/Sandi have all been in the same forward line. I think Tabs in conjunction with Cam Mac, Kersten, Grey, Crozier and Mundy/Fyfe/Neale will give us good forward half pressure. I take your point about the best defender versus the biggest but I think if Tabs played against Melbourne, he would have got McDonald most of the time (of course they all rotate). Tabs can hurt opposition sides in the air if he gets a match up that suits him

 

[Rhino20]

Tabs in for Logue is the change I'd like to see. Give MJ the week off rucking, so he can be full time minding the North talls. BTW, below is a comparison between Tabs and Darcy Moore over their careers. Tabs a rookie versus DM a first round pick. Tabs has played 15 more games but I reckon was subbed off 15 times (at least) in his career so far. The averages are not that far apart and they're similar sized players. Moore has got a big leap but Tabs has got a bigger tank.

He has now put four very solid games together at Peel. People knock him for dropping marks but don't seem to criticise Cam Mac for the same thing? The big thing with both these guys is that they have the speed (Tabs not so much) and endurance (Tabs plenty) to present and that they don't get outmarked. I think he will compliment Cam Mac and Kersten very well because they can all get up the ground and back at speed. Tabs and Kersten can work the wings when we are coming out of the back half with Cam Mac playing a bit deeper. It's good to have the extra tall because Tabs will take the biggest and strongest KPD and he'll have most of those guys covered for speed/endurance. This means that Kersten and Cam Mac get No. 2 and No. 3 respectively. The exception would be if it's wet, in which case Tabs goes out in favour of an extra runner............ Bring on Saturday night. it should be a ripper game!!!!!!!!!
View attachment 359466

I see absolutely zero benefit dropping Logue to bring in Tabs to only be dropped two weeks later after not performing once again, he cannot provide the pressure we need up forward. Logue's pressure around the ball was Fantastic

 

[Frimental Fan]

I see absolutely zero benefit dropping Logue to bring in Tabs to only be dropped two weeks later after not performing once again, he cannot provide the pressure we need up forward. Logue's pressure around the ball was Fantastic

So it doesn't matter what the guy does at training or playing for Peel, he doesn't get a game because you think if we bring Tabs in he will get dropped after two games due to him not applying enough pressure? Did you feel that way after his back to back games last year against Brisbane and Port last year? These comments are from SEN Inside Football for Tabs' games from round 6 to round 12 last year..........
6 Adel One goal, four tackles and three scoring assists. 6
7 GWS Marked well but not in the play enough to be damaging. 5
8 Haw Shows some good signs as tall forward but needs to hold more of his marks. 5
9 Rich Took two contested marks in the wet. 5
10 StK The forward of the future and has great attributes, but needs to hold marks. 6
11 Ess Showed good signs. Took strong marks. Just needed to kick goals. 5
12 Bris Dominated the first half and finished with career high five goals. 8

 

[Scham]

The Brisbane game needs to become the norm rather than the exception.

 

[estibador]

The Brisbane game needs to become the norm rather than the exception.

That would make him the best KPF in the comp!

I'd settle for halfway between that and his usual norm.