Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[JohnnyFontane90]

1) A better defender than Marchbank or Plowman or Mcreadie, and
2) A better defender than a forward.

i don't think you'll find anyone on this board that disputes either of these points.

but the question is: if JW plays forward, how much do we lose from that defense vs how much do we gain forward.

and how much we gain up forward depends largely upon how good the forward prospects come on. i agree that if they come on then JW back is a no brainer.

but if they don't, which they haven't yet, then i think we're better off playing JW forward, than keeping on trying to hit a home run in the draft when our list has so many other holes.

 

[Arr0w]

Who knows, maybe in the second half of the year, Marchbank and Weitering will swap ends. Continue to nurture versatility

 

[Malifice]

but the question is: if JW plays forward, how much do we lose from that defense vs how much do we gain forward.

No thats entirely the wrong question!

The correct question is 'Why are we playing our best young defender as a mediocre forward when he would be better down back?'

The answer is: Because we lack any decent quality key forwards. Were plugging a hole on our list up forward with our best defender because he's the only one we have at present that can do a reasonable stab at the job. Sort of. In a 'score less than 1 goal a game' way.

The solution isn't: 'Keep plugging that hole up forward with our best defender.' The answer is 'Draft a mother****ing quality gun key forward to play in that forward role, who will not only do the job better, but will also release our best defender back into the back line strengthening us at both ends'.

Youre looking at it upside down.

 

[Cripps17]

The plan isnt for him to stay there. Surely you can see this? He's there for a year or two for development, and as a bodge job to plug a gaping hole in our list. In time will play primarily as a defender, who occasionally moves forward.

When we drafted Weitering we didn't have Marchbank, Macreadie or ASOS, Plowman was unproven, Docherty wasn't in conversations as an AA defender and Jones hadn't presented as a possible option.

You are stating Bolts' plans with surety, when in actual fact what even he may have planned for yesterday can change tomorrow

Players are breaking out that we would not have banked for. When that happens you shuffle your pieces to strengthen the whole.

 

[Malifice]

How about we be patient and afford him the same opportunity up forward that we would for say Josh Schache or Charlie Curnow before we declare him a mediocre forward.

Dude might develop into the greatest forward since sliced bread.

Id be over the freaking moon in that happens because we fill that Key Forward post that needs filling (and that I've been arguing rather forcefully for some time that we need to fill). He becomes a 60+ goal a season Key Forward in the mold of Hawkins of Reiwoldt Id be the happiest dude in the wold.

At present all he is is a patchwork solution to a gaping hole in our list. He is a gun once in a generation key defender that we are playing as a forward because we have a gaping hole in our list when it comes to key position forwards, and have no-one else that can play the role*. If he kicks on and dominates, then I'll be stoked.

*Any reason why Jacksh cant play the same role? We'd get at least a goal a game out of him as well.

 

[Malifice]

I see it similar, although I would continue to build the spine via the Draft and or Trade (Money ball type scenario, which KPP player is under valued aka Marchbank). over the next to draft/trade periods. Then, target some top end FA's

My only problem with KPF is they take 3-4 years. We're running out of time.

We can draft one in, but we are going to need to trade one in as well.

 

[ferrisb]

My only problem with KPF is they take 3-4 years. We're running out of time.

We can draft one in, but we are going to need to trade one in as well.

The good news is Mal, is that when SOS turns his attention to recruiting a KPF, we will have 6-8 of them within two years...

 

[james Dean]

Trading our first for Shache would make sense to me. SOS would know all about him and if he rates him as a better prospect than any of this years Key forwards then we should trade for him. He is 20, so it's not like we are drafting a mature player, we may get one less season out of him than we would from a 2017 draftee.

Trust in SOS my friends.

 

[HARKER]

When we drafted Weitering we didn't have Marchbank, Macreadie or ASOS, Plowman was unproven, Docherty wasn't in conversations as an AA defender and Jones hadn't presented as a possible option.

You are stating Bolts' plans with surety, when in actual fact what even he may have planned for yesterday can change tomorrow

Players are breaking out that we would not have banked for. When that happens you shuffle your pieces to strengthen the whole.

Which full back in the league would command ones first selection in a National Draft?
You don't use your first pick on purely a full-back, other than possibly GWS because of their unique situation.
No-one has before and I doubt we'll be the first to have done so.
If Weitering does have to go back and settle into a defensive post, then we've possibly made a mistake.

Anyway, bigger and better things to talk about here other than Weitering.

 

[Malifice]

You are stating Bolts' plans with surety, when in actual fact what even he may have planned for yesterday can change tomorrow

If his plan is to leave Weitering up there forever, then thats a shit decision. Hes our best defender. Draft a ****ing forward, and put Weitering back in the backline.

I give Bolton more credit than that. This is just a stopgap and a bit of a learning experience for Weitering.

Players are breaking out that we would not have banked for. When that happens you shuffle your pieces to strengthen the whole.

I get that.

But we are plugging a massive festering stinking hole up forward with our best defender.

It like drafting a Buddy Franklin and playing him down back like Sam Rowe. I get it as a temporary measure, to assist with development, and as a stop gap, but permanently? I mean, come on!

 

[Malifice]

The good news is Mal, is that when SOS turns his attention to recruiting a KPF, we will have 6-8 of them within two years...

Ive got hope for Harry, which just leaves us 1 more. Id ideally like 2 more, but [1 + Ben SOS + Harry] might have to be enough, considering we need a ruckman and 4-5 mids as well and time is running short (only 3 drafts to get them all).

 

[Cripps17]

So when Pavlich won AA FB Freo were wrong for having moved him?

Weitering is a unique talent, first and foremost. Unearthing his potential isn't restricted to one area of the ground.

 

[Blue__Balls]

If his plan is to leave Weitering up there forever, then thats a shit decision. Hes our best defender. Draft a ******* forward, and put Weitering back in the backline.

I give Bolton more credit than that. This is just a stopgap and a bit of a learning experience for Weitering.



I get that.

But we are plugging a massive festering stinking hole up forward with our best defender.

It like drafting a Buddy Franklin and playing him down back like Sam Rowe. I get it as a temporary measure, to assist with development, and as a stop gap, but permanently? I mean, come on!

So why are you complaining and demanding he be moved down back?

We have drafted a key forward, young fella by the name of Harry McKay. He ain't ready yet.

 

[Arr0w]

Which full back in the league would command ones first selection in a National Draft?
You don't use your first pick on purely a full-back, other than possibly GWS because of their unique situation.
No-one has before and I doubt we'll be the first to have done so.
If Weitering does have to go back and settle into a defensive post, then we've possibly made a mistake.

Anyway, bigger and better things to talk about here other than Weitering.

I understand the point you make.

Don't think you would call it a mistake if he turned out to be the following:

SOS, Fletcher, Jakovich, Scarlett, Glendinning (Some of which were very handy as forwards)

If he was deemed the best player of that draft year, it really doesn't matter what position he plays

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

The solution isn't: 'Keep plugging that hole up forward with our best defender.' The answer is 'Draft a mother******* quality gun key forward to play in that forward role, who will not only do the job better, but will also release our best defender back into the back line strengthening us at both ends'.
.

Didn't we already do that with first round picks with mckay and curnow and jaksch? isn't that why we took kerr last year? and levi is still the best one.

you don't just 'Draft a mother******* quality gun key forward', it's really not that easy.

 

[Malifice]

So why are you complaining and demanding he be moved down back?

For the love of God man, Im not bloody complaining!

My only points have been:
1) JW is a better (read: once in a generation) defender than he is a forward
2) I am happy with him learning to play forward, and seeing what he's got. I expect him to by pushed forward from time to time over his career to **** with the opposition.
3) It also gives us a chance to see how good a forward he is becuase...
4) We have a massive hole up forward at present

We have drafted a key forward, young fella by the name of Harry McKay. He ain't ready yet.

He may never be ready. We have to accept that may be the case (while praying to God it isnt) and plan for the worst. Thats partly why Bolts has moved JW back there - so we have someone there, with some experience, to plug a giant hole.

Personally, I would prefer to draft a key forward to do a key forwards job, and send Weitering (the once in a generation defender) back down into the backline to do a defenders job.

Having two key forwards developing gives us a better chance of one of them making it and us not being left with a huge hole to fill. God willing both make it and we get twin towers akin to Buddy/ Roughy or Cameron/ Patton and I die a happy man watching two 60 goal a season key forwards destroy teams up forward, while JW destroys them down back, and Cripps, SPS and the other mids we draft run riot in the middle.

Im referencing God and prayer a lot today. Weird.

 

[AB_Blue]

People saying Weitering is a better defender than forward should keep this in mind:

Our defence is so well drilled that any of us could play there and look like we have 100 games of experience.

Now look at our forward line....the lack of experience in our current forward line setup is massive. Especially when you compare it to the experience and leadership in the back half.

We can't play 6 KPD's in the backline.....Macreadie is playing seconds FFS and won't get a game while Rowe and ASOS are there! (Marchbank also)

Weiters has to play forward, get the experience and development required so on a few years when we are finals bound he leads the line


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Malifice]

Didn't we already do that with first round picks with mckay and curnow and jaksch? isn't that why we took kerr last year? and levi is still the best one.

you don't just 'Draft a mother******* quality gun key forward', it's really not that easy.

Kerr was pick 70, doesnt count. He's a hit and hope, nothing ventured nothing gained pick. Curnow isnt a key forward - he's a utility. SOSOS is a half forward. Jacksh was a bust. McKay could be as well (needs time). He's the only developing key forward we have at present.

We need to find a KP Forward so Weitering can go back into defence.

 

[Pafloyul]

"Rebuild Fundamentalist"......................Love it : )

Im definitely a rebuild fundamentalist !

It's better than "manic".

 

[Malifice]

Now look at our forward line....the lack of experience in our current forward line setup is massive. Especially when you compare it to the experience and leadership in the back half.

Lets fix it by sending 19 year old once in a generation defenders back there?

How about we draft/ trade in a key forward to do a key forwards job, and let the key defender do a key defenders job.

Alex Silvagni has a few years left in him, and JW will be replacing him once done. By then our only hope is if McKay comes on.

 

[Iamcarlton]

For the love of God man, Im not bloody complaining!

My only points have been:
1) JW is a better (read: once in a generation) defender than he is a forward
2) I am happy with him learning to play forward, and seeing what he's got. I expect him to by pushed forward from time to time over his career to **** with the opposition.
3) It also gives us a chance to see how good a forward he is becuase...
4) We have a massive hole up forward at present



He may never be ready. We have to accept that may be the case (while praying to God it isnt) and plan for the worst. Thats partly why Bolts has moved JW back there - so we have someone there, with some experience, to plug a giant hole.

Personally, I would prefer to draft a key forward to do a key forwards job, and send Weitering (the once in a generation defender) back down into the backline to do a defenders job.

Having two key forwards developing gives us a better chance of one of them making it and us not being left with a huge hole to fill. God willing both make it and we get twin towers akin to Buddy/ Roughy or Cameron/ Patton and I die a happy man watching two 60 goal a season key forwards destroy teams up forward, while JW destroys them down back, and Cripps, SPS and the other mids we draft run riot in the middle.

Im referencing God and prayer a lot today. Weird.

TBH if bolts was just plugging a hole he wouldnt be using weits to do it imo . If that was the case he'd still be playing Liam Jones or trialling Kristian Jaksch or going in with a much smaller mobile forwardline . But he's not he's using Weitering as to yes see what he's got i agree . But you may have to get use to the fact that he may be planning on leaving him forward and pinch hitting him back . For your sanity i hope thats not the case . Time will tell

 

[AB_Blue]

Alex Silvagni has a few years left in him, and JW will be replacing him once done. By then our only hope is if McKay comes on.

SOS got marchbank and Macreadie for a reason. Couple them with Plowman and that is already more key defenders than Freo play in there side

Rowe and ASOS could have 2- 4 years left

Getting a key defender on the cheap after they are done (Rowe & Alex) will be much easier than finding a KPF. Look at Nathan Brown and ASOS from last season!

Haven't seen any clubs discard any decent KPF's lately

Plus no one actually plays on there man anymore and the system will shutout an attack well before a 1 v 1 occurs on a regular basis

Plus we can't just cross out fingers and hope
McKay comes on....we have way too much to lose if he doesn't...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Malifice]

TBH if bolts was just plugging a hole he wouldnt be using weits to do it imo . If that was the case he'd still be playing Liam Jones or trialling Kristian Jaksch or going in with a much smaller mobile forwardline . But he's not he's using Weitering as to yes see what he's got i agree . But you may have to get use to the fact that he may be planning on leaving him forward and pinch hitting him back . For your sanity i hope thats not the case . Time will tell

Liam Jones doesnt have a future with us mate.

Make no mistake, the intent with JW has always been for him to swing up forward from time to time. I approve of him getting an extended run up forward.

We can afford to just leave him there for an extended period of time and see how he gets on. This year and next year are nothing years for us, Levi is a unrestricted F/A and McKay is still a huge question mark.

We might need him to pug that hole for a few years while we desperately try and recruit a Jeremy Cameron via free agency if Levi leaves, and Harry doesnt come on. Of all our key defenders, Weits is the only one with forward experience. Alex Silvagni is going a good job, and can probably do so for another 2-3 years.

God help is if Levi leaves, Harry doesnt come on, and we cant poach a gun Key Forward before 2020 though.

Lets not sugar coat this; we have the worst forward line (including our half forward line) in the AFL, and by a considerable margin.

 

[Pafloyul]

I don't care one way or the other where Weitering ends up playing, as long as it's sorted out. I don't, however, think we should be chasing Schache, for a number of reasons.

 

[thylacine60]

his name alone suggests ch-ch-changes...........