Education & Reference Public and Private schooling

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Golden_6 said:
Correct, I went to Mt Lilydale. The school offered everything I could've asked for in terms of education, teachers, sport etc. Never came across any issues there during my time. Especially compared to Lilydale High and Lilydale Heights.
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Was that the Seventh Day Adventist one?
 
Scotland said:
I'm out of the loop not having kids so not knowing what is normal for each age but my mate's 4 year old counted out all her little princess fairy toy things (whatever the **** they were) she had on the desk in front of her from 1 to 19 or 20 no worries. I thought she was a genius, but that might be normal for that age. Not being able to read at 7 is shocking. Every kid should be able to read before starting school, let alone by 7.
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Not sure what's "normal" either. My almost 3 year old daughter can mostly count to 20 (she usually misses out 13 and 15, but gets the rest). I'm not sure about being able to before starting school, but most kids should surely have learned something about being able to read before completing their first year of school (kindergarten / reception / whatever).
 

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Scotland said:
I'm out of the loop not having kids so not knowing what is normal for each ach but my mate's 4 year old counted out all her little princess fairy toy things (whatever the **** they were) she had on the desk in front of her from 1 to 19 or 20 no worries. I thought she was a genius, but that might be normal for that age. Not being able to read at 7 is shocking. Every kid should be able to read before starting school, let alone by 7.
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Not too many kids can read before starting school, being able to recognise letters and write one's own name is pretty much the norm. But if they start with those basic skills and a love of books by having been read to often, by the end of the first year they will be well on the way to good literacy skills.

A teacher told me once that up until the end of year two they learn to read, from year 3 onwards they read to learn so if they can't read by then they are pretty much screwed.
 
MC Extra Dollop said:
So what's your answer then, since you feel a private education is a waste of time and money (my bet is he went to Mt Lilydale or Aquinas as a co-ed Catholic alternative in the area)? 'Be born in Camberwell, or Kew'?

I'd love to know how you have such a comprehensive knowledge of every pub and suburb of Melbourne, having been here for all of five minutes. I'd be absolutely amazed if you've even set foot in half of the places you feel compelled to share your opinion of. And the ones that you have, I wonder how you got there? An outer suburban train station probably isn't the best site to do a snapshot of an entire suburb.
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Basically don't go teeing off about public schools when so many of them are great: Princes Hill, Uni High, Camberwell are schools people I know have gone to and they did well in school, do well at uni, and are generally well-adjusted kids who'll do okay in life. It's no surprise they live in a good area.

If you live in a s**t area then the price you have to pay for a less expensive house is private school – that's a no brainer. Accept it. Just like a benefit of spending more on a good suburb is a good school zone.

You only have to look at the amount of bogans in the AFL who were drafted out of private schools to realise it's no real barometer.

Most of the people I know went to average private schools but they don't harp on about it or think they're elite for it, and if they do it's generally a pisstake.

It's not that hard; private schools are generally pretty good but it's no recipe for success or even a recipe to have a clean skinned kid come out of it. It's a good thing to be able to afford to go to one. I'm not denying that – it's a privilege and there's a reason people take it up. But public schools, good public schools in great areas, are just as good and have some success stories too and some great results in personhood and academics.

It's a bit like the immigrant bloke running for One Nation, or the tradesmen who vote Liberal... some people love to masquerade in those ways to overcompensate for who they are.
 
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Not even trying to be harsh but it just seems a bad argument to say public schools are inferior to private schools, just one of those things that depends completely on circumstances and situation, and place mostly.
 
At $20000 a year at some now a days are you really getting that much value for money? You could go on a Round the World Trip and learn and do a hell of a lot more.

What "contacts" do you really make at a Private School anyway unless you think school mates will somehow propel you into a career which isn't really the sole purpose of mateship.

Went Public than Private.

I went to school a while a go so very different. But as of now if I had kids. Would send to a decent Public School.
 
Silent Alarm said:
I just find it really rich when people from average suburbs start teeing off about private schools being so much better, and how scummy public schools are. If you're some spoilt little prick whose dad is on Channel 9 and you're living in Kew and going to Geelong Grammar then yes you can probably look down and be a smug a-hole about the whole public school thing. But some snot nosed kid whose parents are working class and living in an outer ring suburb, who think they're elite because they went to a middling 5k private school is a ****in joke.

Some kid saying 'oh the kids who went to private school got into drugs, got into a middling life of nothing' is a bit of an unfair call when they're living in what was essentially a country town 20 years ago. The country and those outer areas generally have little to do and kids become bored, they find fun in other ways, and school becomes less relevant because the teachers give up and their mates are drinking UDLs and vandalising trains. It's a bit like saying someone who has broken up parents is a wreck because of it... but it's more than that: it's about nurture, circumstance, and yes socio-economics – and whether you like it or not, and lots of people on this forum don't, suburbs have so much to do with socioeconomics. Some little prat from St Kilda going to Wesley will get into drugs for 18 months and probably get out of it; some kid in Franga is going to be smoking can bongs. It's a generalisation but it isn't that out there, weird, or wrong.

Basically don't go teeing off about public schools when so many of them are great: Princes Hill, Uni High, Camberwell are schools people I know have gone to and they did well in school, do well at uni, and are generally well-adjusted kids who'll do okay in life. It's no surprise they live in a good area.

If you live in a s**t area then the price you have to pay for a less expensive house is private school – that's a no brainer. Accept it. Just like a benefit of spending more on a good suburb is a good school zone.

You only have to look at the amount of bogans in the AFL who were drafted out of private schools to realise it's no real barometer.

Most of the people I know went to average private schools but they don't harp on about it or think they're elite for it, and if they do it's generally a pisstake.

It's not that hard; private schools are generally pretty good but it's no recipe for success or even a recipe to have a clean skinned kid come out of it. It's a good thing to be able to afford to go to one. I'm not denying that – it's a privilege and there's a reason people take it up. But public schools, good public schools in great areas, are just as good and have some success stories too and some great results in personhood and academics.

It's a bit like the immigrant bloke running for One Nation, or the tradesmen who vote Liberal... some people love to masquerade in those ways to overcompensate for who they are.
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Is that how you read Golden6's post? It seemed to me that the thrust of the message was that Mt Lilydale was a solid school in the area, while Mooroolbark High was dodgy. And that if you had kids in the area who had aspirations of a tertiary education and you had the means, Mt Lilydale would be worth the extra money, compared to rolling the dice with Mooroolbark High. Nothing more, nothing less than that. That you felt it was worthy of all these crazy tangents you've drawn about elitism and whatever else says more about you than it does about Mooroolbark, or Golden6.

I'm not from Mooroolbark (not miles away though), but my nan lived there for as long as I can remember and my cousins also lived in the area. I've never had a problem with the suburb and nor has anyone in my family. My nan lived alone and was doing the 15-20 minute walk from home to the station to head into town well into her 90s without incident.

So when that's my experience over decades, it gets my nose out of joint to some extent to have someone who may never have even been there and who certainly wouldn't have a clue what the five ways is dismiss it as a shithole. It's OK you know, to decide 'Well, I don't really have a clue about that subject; I might just avoid offering my learned opinion on that one'?

Like I said, I'm not from Mooroolbark, but grew up about a 15 minute drive away. There's tons to do. Not so much if you're looking for wine bars and a burgeoning indie music scene, but for things that kids would be interested in, yeah there's no shortage.

Your list of quality public high schools is laughable. What planet are you on? Parkville, Carlton North and Camberwell. How many parents in their 30s-mid 40s are buying a 4-bedroom house there? Do you have any realistic examples of rock solid public schools in places where young families might actually live?
 

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MC Extra Dollop said:
Is that how you read Golden6's post? It seemed to me that the thrust of the message was that Mt Lilydale was a solid school in the area, while Mooroolbark High was dodgy. And that if you had kids in the area who had aspirations of a tertiary education and you had the means, Mt Lilydale would be worth the extra money, compared to rolling the dice with Mooroolbark High. Nothing more, nothing less than that. That you felt it was worthy of all these crazy tangents you've drawn about elitism and whatever else says more about you than it does about Mooroolbark, or Golden6.

I'm not from Mooroolbark (not miles away though), but my nan lived there for as long as I can remember and my cousins also lived in the area. I've never had a problem with the suburb and nor has anyone in my family. My nan lived alone and was doing the 15-20 minute walk from home to the station to head into town well into her 90s without incident.

So when that's my experience over decades, it gets my nose out of joint to some extent to have someone who may never have even been there and who certainly wouldn't have a clue what the five ways is dismiss it as a shithole. It's OK you know, to decide 'Well, I don't really have a clue about that subject; I might just avoid offering my learned opinion on that one'?

Like I said, I'm not from Mooroolbark, but grew up about a 15 minute drive away. There's tons to do. Not so much if you're looking for wine bars and a burgeoning indie music scene, but for things that kids would be interested in, yeah there's no shortage.

Your list of quality public high schools is laughable. What planet are you on? Parkville, Carlton North and Camberwell. How many parents in their 30s-mid 40s are buying a 4-bedroom house there? Do you have any realistic examples of rock solid public schools in places where young families might actually live?
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This post is pretty spot on. My parents were on probably average money (around $60-70k after tax) but made the extra sacrifices so they could afford to send me to the school that I went to. I honestly feel like my life would've turned out completely differently had I been sent to a public high school in their area based on the individuals I'm familiar with, so I'm eternally grateful that decision was made.
 
Run n Spread said:
At $20000 a year at some now a days are you really getting that much value for money? You could go on a Round the World Trip and learn and do a hell of a lot more.

What "contacts" do you really make at a Private School anyway unless you think school mates will somehow propel you into a career which isn't really the sole purpose of mateship.

Went Public than Private.

I went to school a while a go so very different. But as of now if I had kids. Would send to a decent Public School.
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For $20,000 a year I'd want my kid to be rubbing shoulders with the Premier's kids and the Police Commissioner's kids and so forth. Are unremarkable, non-elite private schools in suburbia charging that much? And if so, what the * are they spending all their bullshit government funding on?
 
$26,600k p.a. to go to Scotch.

What's even more ridiculous is that's the amount for 6-12. It decreases as you go down but is still $15k for kindy and $20k for year 1. The actual *?

I just had a look and All Saints is $2k for kindy and $14-20k from 1-12. Corpus Christi is $7k for 7-12 plus levies, so really $9-11k per year. They are Catholic so the 4th student and beyond are free.
 
The fees don't take into account uniform/ excursion /stationary and textbook costs (which are usually much higher at private schools than public schools).
My scholarship didn't cover those incidentals either
 
I went to a public school and it was fine. I was never really pushed by the teachers but most of us got through fine with good grades. I enjoyed my time there and made some really good friends but at times do wish I went to a private school. I came out of there with a lot of bad habits that have carried over into Uni and has had a negative impact on my marks. I do wonder if I had have gone private would I be in the same boat.

I have done 2 Uni pracs so far- one Independent Public and the other being one of the prestigious private schools in Perth. I have to say in terms of student ability there didn't seem to be too much difference up until year 10. I did find the year 11 and 12 students at the private school to be of a higher ability and putting more effort into their education- particularly those doing ATAR. In terms of teaching quality there wasn't too much difference IMO but I'd say the private school would just come out ahead.

From my experiences as a student and being in classrooms on prac, I don't think there is a helluva lot of difference between the good public schools and private schools. At least, not enough of a difference to justify spending $20k+ per year.
 
Silent Alarm said:
Basically don't go teeing off about public schools when so many of them are great: Princes Hill, Uni High, Camberwell are schools people I know have gone to and they did well in school, do well at uni, and are generally well-adjusted kids who'll do okay in life. It's no surprise they live in a good area.

If you live in a s**t area then the price you have to pay for a less expensive house is private school – that's a no brainer. Accept it. Just like a benefit of spending more on a good suburb is a good school zone.

You only have to look at the amount of bogans in the AFL who were drafted out of private schools to realise it's no real barometer.

Most of the people I know went to average private schools but they don't harp on about it or think they're elite for it, and if they do it's generally a pisstake.

It's not that hard; private schools are generally pretty good but it's no recipe for success or even a recipe to have a clean skinned kid come out of it. It's a good thing to be able to afford to go to one. I'm not denying that – it's a privilege and there's a reason people take it up. But public schools, good public schools in great areas, are just as good and have some success stories too and some great results in personhood and academics.

It's a bit like the immigrant bloke running for One Nation, or the tradesmen who vote Liberal... some people love to masquerade in those ways to overcompensate for who they are.
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It's very much area related. Around me the schools are garbage or filled with types you wouldn't want your kids hanging around. I think I'm pretty spot on when I s**t on public schools. They're just not as abundant as private schools, therefore a lot of the time unless you're going private you're probably ending up at some shitty school. The average family ain't living near Princes Hill or Camberwell.
 
Bomberboyokay said:
For $20,000 a year I'd want my kid to be rubbing shoulders with the Premier's kids and the Police Commissioner's kids and so forth. Are unremarkable, non-elite private schools in suburbia charging that much? And if so, what the **** are they spending all their bullshit government funding on?
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The Police Commissioner's kid in WA is a meth head who got done for shipping it down the Albany Highway.

I have a mate who went to school at one of these expensive places, full of pollies kids and smarmy twats like that, daughters of 'personalities' on the Footy Show and from what I've heard it was a non-stop wank fast.

You don't get good punch ups at private schools either... no one went down to HJs after school to bluetooth around a fight between the Maths rooms if they'd been at PEGS earlier that day. There's your education!
 
Private schools not only have the funds to poach the best teachers, but they've also got a winning culture that respects and apprecites achievement.

Another significant positive about private schools is you associate with people that are at the top of the pecking order, which has a huge flow on effect theoughout your life. Yes, there are downsides to it such as entitlement and too much disposable income which can be dangsrous, but I think it's a reasonable trade off.

I went to a public school because I qualified for an exclusive course, while my relatives went to exclusive private schools, so I've seen it from both sides of the fence. Private education is non negotiable if I can afford it.
 
Scotland said:
I mean if you are pushing them into a religious cult then you don't really have their future in mind so who cares if they can't good good and need to learn to do other stuff good too.
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I think maybe you need to research what a cult is.
 
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