Autopsy Cats def Dogs 104-81

[NBates]

Did Bevo say "flat as a s**t carters hat" in his Bevo's brief? Lol.

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[Johnny_Dogg4]

the effort is there, can’t deny that
but the game style has been found out now, and we are struggling, 4/5 wins have come from the bottom 4 teams and in most of them we have been down by a fair margin.

If this continues when we have our full team, then we will prob miss out on the 8. Bevo has to find out a new game plan.

still unsure how to read this season, its been good and very bad, but we have to reserve judgement until we get our best team .

 

[StringyDog]

Yep. I feel like the selection committee feel obliged to keep Clay in the side because he has a purple patch where he will kick us some goals throughout the game. But bloody hell he looks ordinary when he's not impacting the score board. Absolutely love him to death. But he just lacks mobility below his knees for only a medium/small forward. And it's not his fault either. 3 knees would do that to anyone.

We are lacking a genuine speedy goalsneak who can put on defensive pressure inside forward 50. It's the one position that stands out like dogs balls for us. We just look so bloody slow up forward.

Cant carry him, in a good game he gives a 1 quarter effort in a bad one he doesnt get near it. A small that has no pace to apply pressure when we already have Redpath/Cloke who cany either just doesnt work. Love him for the efforts he was able to put in last years finals but i worry for his future

 

[Eliteflyboy]

I don't like complaining about umpires but Murphy's holding the ball traveled further than Selwood's non-holding the ball when Cloke tackled him...

 

[compact72]

Why?
it was a great game.


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Mate we've put on some really poor performances

 

[PhatBoy]

not the only one who took it as him taking a subtle dig. and you really are full of your self arent you

No. I just have a grasp of the concept that not everything people say is a literal expression.

Darren Lehmann: We were expecting them to come out and throw the bat from the start*

*meltdown over the inference that the opposition would come out and start hurling cricket bats around the field

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Let's face it. Giants are good ( with a full list). Crows are good. Swans will be good later on. Saints and Dee's are improving. Weagles and Cats though are basically full of cooked older players, young guys and overrated flogs like Josh Hill, Motlop and Murdoch. If we were any good we would have beate both. So let's not hear excuses- we just aren't that good this year- we are getting beaten in the middle and are outnumbered at the contest.

To get better we need to look to the future, something some clubs refuse to do. I would be looking for a few more skilled faster players who are better kicks. And players who want to work hard. Have a look at Wally - he wants to work, doesn't miss targets, kicks his goals.

Guys like Suckling and Trav will only be fringe players, Boyd doesn't offer much and got my doubts about Roberts lack of pace.

Guys like Williams, Dale, Webb, Adams, English, Lipinski and McLean are the future - hopefully we will see lots more of them

 

[VitalDread]

I actually thought Webb had a solid game, still learning the sealing aspect of being a midfielder but did show some good signs

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

story of the season

we dominate and are on top we don’t capitalise enough, examples vs cats, gws

which emphasises that issue of our lack of scoring power

 

[go you pups]

We have way too many midfield types in the team and not enough natural forwards which is absolutely correct but it becomes a balancing act. This structure will struggle in the regular season where higher scores are kicked and the games are more open. When the finals role around it becomes critical and suits us because kicking 60-80 points a game can win finals.

I don't really know what the solution is. Maybe once Roughy and Stringer are back we can just getting some cohesion between T Boyd, Redpath/Cloke, Stringer and Dickson as those 4 could be a deadly forward line combo.

Roughy, Boyd, Cordy and Stringer won us a premiership, while we played some of the best H and A footy last year with Roughy, Campbell, Redpath and Stringer in the side between R7-12 (they weren't all available against GWS in R9 though due to Reds suspension).

I'm sure Roughy, Boyd, Stringer and 1 of Red/Cloke will work, but playing Boyd, Cloke and Red all together is a waiting disaster due to Redpath's lack of flexibility and that none of them are number 1 rucks. I feel Cloke has the versatility to fit in with Boyd as Boyd can play FF/CHF/ruck, while Cloke can FF/CHF. Last night didn't suit us or the forward line at all with regular stagnant ball movement, while a lot of long kicks down the line were regularly kicked to Geelong's defenders advantage. Roughy will help immensely in this regard and I feel Boyd will lift in this regard too with Rough next to him providing an alternative outlet so we can win crucial 50-50s around the ground, particularly as outlets from kickouts, or the next kick from half back. Cloke's best game for us was in R2 playing with both Campbell and Boyd, while Stringer was dynamite through midfield/half forward. I'm very confident Roughy, Boyd and Cloke will work based from what I saw against Sydney on our home deck plus what we did for half of last year playing 3 prong through the ruck and up forward.

Against Norf, Boyd got concussed early on which hurt our structure, so Cloke found it a bit harder that night with a decoy not playing around him before thug Zeebull injured him. I thought Campbell was excellent that night however and was huge in the second half helping get us back into the game and nullifying Goldstein somewhat, a value that a traditional ruckman should have over a makeshift option. I feel Campbell has been treated horribly the last couple of weeks and imo he would've made a difference in terms of our structure if he had played the last 3-4 weeks, particularly the last 3 weeks. Rance and co nearly won Richmond the game imo by regularly intercepting forward entries due to our lack of height down there, we were lucky our midfield overpowered them eventually. Campbell definitely helps us the last two weeks. Boyd would've played deep forward more and keeps West Coast's and Geelong's defence accountable and gives us a genuine high marking option. How good was Boyd last night when he went forward!!!! For structures sake we absolutely need someone like that deep as Redpath just does not offer us a high marking target at all and is a better leading target, much like a bigger version of Dickson. Cloke is a little better than Red in the high marking regard, but not too much, his flexibility at FF/CHF beats Red easily though so I feel we persist with Cloke once Roughy is back. The only time Cloke and Red play together is when Boyd is out and Cloke plays solely CHF and Red FF if that happens. I don't want to see Boyd, Red and Cloke together again, there won't be any cohesion imo. I feel Stringers versatility to go into midfield or as a high half forward/crumber has no baring on these guys, we just use him where we need to.


Dickson and Smith for me play every week no matter what unless injured, they know where the goals are. I feel Smith has been unfairly maligned this year, he has had no help from midfield this year in regards to keeping the ball in the forward half which was his bread and butter last year. The change in coaching staff and gameplan has seen less pressure on the ball carrier from midfield in particular and we seem to let it come out of F50 too easily as our defensive structures/zone is horrendous. Again I see most of our problems stemming from what the midfield does not do and Bev and Gia must wear the brunt of that as they make the calls there, what Corey and King were doing in midfield worked last year, what Gia is doing currently is shithouse and why does Bev consistently fail to recognise we lack structure in many areas, while also neglecting the ruck and a genuine tag option when someone is getting on top of us?

Horrible match committee and coaching at the moment imo lets us down.

 

[flamethrower]

Just angling for best position in the wildcard round.....that's a thing this year isn't it?

Imagine we won it from 10th. For the lolz

Wait til they bring in the wild card for the winner of the 13th to 18th division in the new 17/5 fixture.

We'll go 0-17 and finish 18th. Then win our next 5 to finish 13th and get the 2nd wild card, before winning 5 finals in a row to pinch the flag. The melts it would cause would be the end of Big Footy.

Just wish we would make life a bit easier for ourselves by winning the flag from the top 2 like everyone else.

 

[The Unforgiven]

We are the Western Bulldogs don't come and patronise us calling us Footscray. I hate your football club and everything about it. I'm sickened we were beat by a two man team(one of which is an utter cheat) and the umpires.

Now back to the litter for you and best you duck on your way back thanks for coming.

Woah dude, this reaction is a bit OTT! I meant no disrespect when calling your club Footscray; your club is still Footscray - just known commercially as the Western Bulldogs. But, I meant no offence either way.

To say you were beaten by a two man team is a bit disingenuous. We had more than two good players last night. By saying that, you're selling your own boys way too short when, in all honesty, they played pretty well.

I get that you're frustrated and I have no desire to get into a stir on your board. I genuinely meant what I said and I have respect for your club and the way your current side goes about it.

Good luck for the rest of the season and hopefully we'll cross paths again in September. It would undoubtedly be another cracker.

 

[darthbards]

It does seem a bit premiership hangover to me,we certainly can't maintain our hunger over four quarters.
Wood,JJ and Adams were all excellent.
Jongs playing better and better every week,loved his game.
Boyd actually showed some forward promise. He still has a long way to go but he does very occasionally show he has the ability to take a brilliant mark,he's definitely a very,very clever player.
Dale was pretty good and I didn't mind Williams game overall.
Concussion has nothing to do with Picken,he's just a little out of form.
Can't believe some of our supporters are critiscing the umpires after what we saw and heard last year.
Glad Wallis was back,I like how he can get forward and kick a goal.
Pretty even season so we still have a fair bit to play out.

 

[Dogsman16]

Direct question to those dropping Redpath over Cloke. Generally what does Cloke do better than Redpath at this stage apart from being a better Endurance player. Cause apart from that in my mind Cloke is either equal too or not as Good as Redpath in every other aspect of play. Redpath is a significantly better kick at goal, gets more seperation on the lead, does less stupid things and is more of physical/combative presence. And is equal to Cloke in terms of Contested marking, and other facets of play.

We were crying out for a player who would provide a lead up presence inside forward 50. Seems strange to want to drop him.

Plus Roughy and Boyd imo are better at being in the ruck and then pushing their opposition ruckman into our forward line (Boyds screamer against Sydney and last night were two great examples of that) rather than sticking them in the goal square. I think thats more suited to Redpaths style (so he can be the deep forward option all the time) rather than having Cloke push up tbe ground and having Stringer or someone else as the deepest forward.

 

[TempleKelvington]

Mate we've put on some really poor performances

I don't think so, we have lost some games but the footy we play is entertaining. Every neutral I talk to loves watching us and know we have a crack. I think you might be confusing losing with playing bad, unattractive footy. Even today people are saying it was good game of footy.

I get footy is all about winning, but you can't win every week and things change very quickly, look at the Cats last week and now look.

This time last year it was the same, yet we know what happened. Long way to go yet and we will have some more losses, but we will also win some.

 

[Pugz89]

They played their GF against us last night. Set a club record for tackles! A couple of brain fades and abysmal 2nd quarter yet only lost by a small margin. Cmon people, all the positives are there. Just need consistency.

We've been saying that all year. We are nearing the halfway point and can no longer blame the shorter preseason. Lack of consistency is a real worry at the moment.

 

[fronkalicious]

Chris Scott treated Sammy landsberger (massive dogs fan of course) like shite in the presser last nite.

Was kinda amusing

 

[go you pups]

Direct question to those dropping Redpath over Cloke. Generally what does Cloke do better than Redpath at this stage apart from being a better Endurance player. Cause apart from that in my mind Cloke is either equal too or not as Good as Redpath in every other aspect of play. Redpath is a significantly better kick at goal, gets more seperation on the lead, does less stupid things and is more of physical/combative presence. And is equal to Cloke in terms of Contested marking, and other facets of play.

We were crying out for a player who would provide a lead up presence inside forward 50. Seems strange to want to drop him.

Plus Roughy and Boyd imo are better at being in the ruck and then pushing their opposition ruckman into our forward line (Boyds screamer against Sydney and last night were two great examples of that) rather than sticking them in the goal square. I think thats more suited to Redpaths style (so he can be the deep forward option all the time) rather than having Cloke push up tbe ground and having Stringer or someone else as the deepest forward.

I agree here, I feel Red is most useful on big grounds like the Adelaide Oval and the MCG where he can get some separation and Dickson has dominated regularly at the MCG too with his own lead up game, but Cloke seems to play Etihad well himself.

Not much difference between Red and Cloke imo, but they can only play together when Boyd is out imo, all 3 can't play together, has to be the 2 ruck types and one of them. Cloke is a better contested mark imo though.

 

[NBates]

Probably rebellious to post in this thread, but nothing like a bit of Soundgarden to help deal with the angst and let down of our current doggies - vale Chris Cornell

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[Dogsman16]

I agree here, I feel Red is most useful on big grounds like the Adelaide Oval and the MCG where he can get some separation and Dickson has dominated regularly at the MCG too with his own lead up game, but Cloke seems to play Etihad well himself.

Not much difference between Red and Cloke imo, but they can only play together when Boyd is out imo, all 3 can't play together, has to be the 2 ruck types and one of them. Cloke is a better contested mark imo though.

Clokes taken less than 1 contested mark per game this year. Its not as if he is hauling grabs consistently in comparison.

Not to metion i look at how many goals the pair came be compared through. Redpath has kicked 44 goals in his last 24 games. In comparison Cloke has 25. Id just rather go with Redpath and his reliable goal scoring ability.

 

[MJ_Dogs]

No. I just have a grasp of the concept that not everything people say is a literal expression.

Darren Lehmann: We were expecting them to come out and throw the bat from the start*

*meltdown over the inference that the opposition would come out and start hurling cricket bats around the field

You've got to be kidding. Most other coaches, sure we'd take it with a grain of salt. But coming from one of the sooky, whiney, petulant Scott's is a completely different story. He's a bitter little arrogant grub with no credibility whatsoever.

 

[dergert]

Hamling was not just a depth player. He was a huge loss for us.

 

[go you pups]

Clokes taken less than 1 contested mark per game this year. Its not as if he is hauling grabs consistently in comparison.

Not to metion i look at how many goals the pair came be compared through. Redpath has kicked 44 goals in his last 24 games. In comparison Cloke has 25. Id just rather go with Redpath and his reliable goal scoring ability.

Fair enough

I just feel some of our really poor cohesive games have been with Redpath in.

Redpath has a vastky improved, goalkicking record, but imo he does his best work against mid table sides

Boyd always kicks goals against top 8 teams for us, always, why does he struggle against bottom 10 types though? Is he made to ruck more in these games? Do we play a style of footy that doesn't suit him? He always plays s**t against the mediocre Norf, Collingwood, St Kilda, Carlton and Melbourne types imo.

Look at some of Boyd's multiple goal games against Redpath off the top of my head that I can remember

2015 Boyd
R3 Kicked 3 against Hawthorn, premiers
R4 Kicked 2 against Adelaide, 6th
R5 Kicked 2 against Sydney, 5th
R7 Kicked 2 against Fremantle, 3rd
R9 Kicked 2 against GWS, 11th (were top 4 at the time before injuries hurt them)
R12 Kicked 4 against Brisbane, 17th

Then was pretty much banished shortly afterwards

2016 Boyd
R2 Kicked 2 against St Kilda (IIRC), 9th
Got injured shortly afterwards
R19 Kicked 3 against Geelong, 3rd
GF Kicked 3 against Sydney, 2nd

He also had solid games against Hawthorn twice and West Coast, but either didn't kick straight, or he played up the ground as a CHF/ruck

Redpath loves playing the Adelaide teams, he averages 4 a game against both in his last 4 games combined against both. IIRC he has also kicked 2s and 3s on Melbourne, West Coast and Gold Coast too.

Perhaps Red hasn't played enough against a majority of top teams, whereas Boyd has, but Red seems to always be close to useless against a strong defensive team in Geelong who Boyd has dominated against in comparison in his last 2 against them.

I kind of feel Roughy, Boyd and Red haven't played enough together though to get a true guide on gelling together, they've only played 2-3 games together as a trio as Roughy was being used as a defender when Minson/Campbell was being used.

 

[Gollo]

We have way too many midfield types in the team and not enough natural forwards which is absolutely correct but it becomes a balancing act. This structure will struggle in the regular season where higher scores are kicked and the games are more open. When the finals role around it becomes critical and suits us because kicking 60-80 points a game can win finals.

I don't really know what the solution is. Maybe once Roughy and Stringer are back we can just getting some cohesion between T Boyd, Redpath/Cloke, Stringer and Dickson as those 4 could be a deadly forward line combo.

I do agree that having Roughead and Stringer back will assist our structure going forward immensely. Roughead in makes us far more potent in the air with Boyd allowed more time and space inside 50 to clunk pack marks or at least create a contest. Stringer just adds another natural forward to the mix with real x-factor.

 

[go you pups]

Hamling was not just a depth player. He was a huge loss for us.

He would've been a much better match up on Taylor than Morris unfortunately

Taylor regularly got too much separation on Morris and nailed all of his low probability shots out wide.