The Rebuild

[Purpletown]

This is a great question, and very difficult to answer. The main problem for me is that a couple of our key areas of need are potentially addressed by players that are long term injured. Add A Pearce, Bennel and Apeness to our best 22 and I am confident in a rapid transition.

Agree with you regarding the importance of long term injured in A Pearce, Bennel and Apeness to be in our best 22 to accelerate our chances of climbing the ladder.

Pearce should be ok in 2018 and has shown plenty in his short time at Freo, Bennel has had/got significant injury problems to deal with but is an A grade player if he can get on the park but Apeness is yet to prove himself as an AFL player and has knees that seem destined to cause him plenty of problems going forward unfortunately.

Those three playing regular footy for Freo will help our rise up the ladder but it's still going to take a a few of the younger players to continue to develop their game and a few fresh faces in the way of drafting and perhaps a decent trade or two to make a serious tilt at the finals before 2020.

 

[greatgatsby]

This is quite brutal but possibly on the money. I disagree with Ryan, he looks good to me. Relaxed, pinpoint kicks at times. Maybe needs to get involved more but he's played like 4 games. Grey... Hmmm.. Gotta love the crazy eye but I'd prefer more scoring input. He is one of those players that creates scoring opportunities for others though so I like him. Cox looks really good (minus that ball drop!), Tabs, Kersten and McCarthy, I hoped they'd be Neapolitan ice cream but looks like someone's scooped out the chocolate and strawberry atm.

I know what you mean but I wouldn't call it uncertainty, at least not in a bad way. We're exploring the list, you're supposed to expose weaknesses.

"... I hoped they'd be Neapolitan ice cream but looks like someone's scooped out the chocolate and strawberry atm." - just quoting so it gets the attention it deserves!

 

[Joao]

But but but... sandi, spurr and mundy (maybe even johnson) will be playing 2018. It's 2019 they'll likely be gone. Are you saying we stay bottom six with them around, then rise to mid table once they retire?

I think the team's 2017 end of season trip will be to Kathmandu. Cos we're going ladder climbing next year.

Sandi is having trouble getting on the park (have we won without him this year?) and Spurr has dropped off a little this year. Johnno is in good touch but is also 32 with a history of soft tissue and back issues. Mundy is getting a little inconsistent. They may all play and play well next year but I think if we are being realistic, they are not all going to be consistently on the park playing at a 100%.

I think we will be largely the same as this year. Our good footy will be great but we will struggle to play out games and to turn up each week. There will still be lots of blokes WELL under 50 games in the side next year. No way that is a recipe for a significant ladder rise.

We will rise in 2019ish (as if anyone knows the exact date) because the players who currently have 0-30 games will have 40-70 games experience. So rather than the senior blokes dragging the team each week there should be a more even spread. So it is the time before they are ready and the old guys are slowing down.

 

[Alfonz]

We almost (and should have) beat a full strength St Kilda side that is supposed to be a long way ahead of us and finals bound. And we were missing Bennell, Hill, Blakely, Langdon, Balic, Pearce and Sandi, while our best player is still a long way off what he can do.

I think we can transition from Sandi/MJ/Mundy as they retire, and don't think we're far away at all from being a top 4 side. But I think improving our medical department is as important as anything. Bad luck is one thing, but what we've endured for years goes way beyond bad luck. If we can't operate with an acceptable injury list, we're never going to climb the ladder.

 

[Mike I]

My interpretation of milestones for a 4 year re-stump/re-wire plan:

Year 1: Fringe players start to make way for talented draftees (Blakely, Weller, Langdon) and integrate with core team members to absorb their knowledge and gain match day experience. Wins range: 4-6

Year 2: Education phase. Non-essential senior players make way for untried players with emphasis on exposing players to a range of roles to challenge the individuals rather a specific game plan. Changing of the guard for leadership group and development of a style/brand. Wins range: 6-8

Year 3: Implementation of gameplan around key personnel and the developed brand. 2-3 veteran players remain to support the new leadership group and maturing key position players. Wins range: 9-11

Year 4: Core group matures both physically and mentally along with team cohesion and knowledge of game plan. Leadership group has been completely turned over and team begins to push for finals, winning a good number of games at home. Wins range: 12-14

Year 5+: Recruitment and drafting/development of players determine the quality of fringe and depth players and ability to sustain performance over a season/overcome injury.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Right now it's just great watching it all unfold. While I have enjoyed the beltings about as much as plucking my nostril hairs.

Wax them...




"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced"

 

[FreoMonocle]

Expectations of a rebuild? Tough question as it's not a static target - career ending injuries, drop in form, changes to coaches, rules and whotnot.

Of our last 3 drafts/trades, 1 was with a great set of picks for a rebuild and the other 2 were putrid. But even in those drafts we have still done well because our lower picks are surpringly good.

Just cherry picking some other folks might included different personnel, but our last 3 drafts/trades that aren't 1st rounders ..
Connor Blakely #34
Brad Hill #23
Sean Darcy #38
Harley Balic #38
Ed Langdon #54
Darcy Tucker #27
Brennan Cox #41

then the first round picks
Lachie Weller at #13 and McCarthy/Hamling/Logue as a bundle for pick #3 imho. Bennell at #22 can be the steal of the century - or a gamble that didn't pay off, to be seen.

Half the team we want going forward and will be happy with is in these last 3 drafts. The likes of Melbourne FC tried to shoehorn years of high order first round picks in their tanking - er rebuild. Without that luxury and 1 year into a rebuild, we actually have a decent future list out of the last 3 years. And by crikey, a few are playing for us like we drafted them with 1st round picks - Blakely, Hamling, Darcy, BHill.


We may be in a position to get the 1st or 2nd best KPF in this coming draft as the other cellar dwellers pretty well all need mids for their first choice and also are loaded up with KPFs. Which leads to our forward line...

<2017 KPF draftee> and Mitch McGovern, Brennan Cox and Cam McCarthy, possibly topped up with Weller/Bennell. A forward line that would probably work and be what we've ached for.

Some minor fiddling, but we essentially have the main part of our future midfield and defence already, though Halfback, Ruck and lock down small defender are targets for trading/drafting.

A rebuild needs quality for it to work and adding in a few from previous drafts - e.g. SHill, Fyfe, Neale, Michael Walters, Alex Pearce and our list is a good list for a tilt at the flag once the young uns have some cohesion. But that flag tilt so needs our forward line issues resolved - that KPF draftee at a minimum, a trade for McGovern as well would be nice, as well as any coaching and other issues resolved (such as delivery to the forwards).

But while we might rebuild and have a team worth having a crack at the flag, it will be butting heads with the team of the century in GWS.

 

[Freo]

Expectations of a rebuild? Tough question as it's not a static target - career ending injuries, drop in form, changes to coaches, rules and whotnot.

Of our last 3 drafts/trades, 1 was with a great set of picks for a rebuild and the other 2 were putrid. But even in those drafts we have still done well because our lower picks are surpringly good.

Just cherry picking some other folks might included different personnel, but our last 3 drafts/trades that aren't 1st rounders ..
Connor Blakely #34
Brad Hill #23
Sean Darcy #38
Harley Balic #38
Ed Langdon #54
Darcy Tucker #27
Brennan Cox #41

then the first round picks
Lachie Weller at #13 and McCarthy/Hamling/Logue as a bundle for pick #3 imho. Bennell at #22 can be the steal of the century - or a gamble that didn't pay off, to be seen.

Half the team we want going forward and will be happy with is in these last 3 drafts. The likes of Melbourne FC tried to shoehorn years of high order first round picks in their tanking - er rebuild. Without that luxury and 1 year into a rebuild, we actually have a decent future list out of the last 3 years. And by crikey, a few are playing for us like we drafted them with 1st round picks - Blakely, Hamling, Darcy, BHill.


We may be in a position to get the 1st or 2nd best KPF in this coming draft as the other cellar dwellers pretty well all need mids for their first choice and also are loaded up with KPFs. Which leads to our forward line...

<2017 KPF draftee> and Mitch McGovern, Brennan Cox and Cam McCarthy, possibly topped up with Weller/Bennell. A forward line that would probably work and be what we've ached for.

Some minor fiddling, but we essentially have the main part of our future midfield and defence already, though Halfback, Ruck and lock down small defender are targets for trading/drafting.

A rebuild needs quality for it to work and adding in a few from previous drafts - e.g. SHill, Fyfe, Neale, Michael Walters, Alex Pearce and our list is a good list for a tilt at the flag once the young uns have some cohesion. But that flag tilt so needs our forward line issues resolved - that KPF draftee at a minimum, a trade for McGovern as well would be nice, as well as any coaching and other issues resolved (such as delivery to the forwards).

But while we might rebuild and have a team worth having a crack at the flag, it will be butting heads with the team of the century in GWS.

A nice summation of our position and needs. I would add that I think our list has the makings of a gun team with a little more experience. A top line, once in a generation forward would be the icing to finally get us a flag IMO.

 

[_F7_]

Sandi is having trouble getting on the park (have we won without him this year?) and Spurr has dropped off a little this year. Johnno is in good touch but is also 32 with a history of soft tissue and back issues. Mundy is getting a little inconsistent. They may all play and play well next year but I think if we are being realistic, they are not all going to be consistently on the park playing at a 100%.

I think we will be largely the same as this year. Our good footy will be great but we will struggle to play out games and to turn up each week. There will still be lots of blokes WELL under 50 games in the side next year. No way that is a recipe for a significant ladder rise.

We will rise in 2019ish (as if anyone knows the exact date) because the players who currently have 0-30 games will have 40-70 games experience. So rather than the senior blokes dragging the team each week there should be a more even spread. So it is the time before they are ready and the old guys are slowing down.

I see what you're saying but I'd counter the johnsons and mundys slowing down with the rise of our 3rd to 4th years and emergence of our 2nd to 3rds. I'm talking Blakely, Weller, Darcy, Hughes, Balic, Logue, A.Pearce, Tucker, Nyhuis, Ryan etc. There is a lot of talent poised to take the reigns.

At this rate we know enough to say it would take a breathtaking drop of form and hunger for their development to not rise again. E.g. Blakely is already close to or above Mundy's current output IMO. Yes, we'll lose experience. But we'll gain fresh legs and brains.

I like the balance of the list, there are definitely some big holes to fill, but not enough to hold the team down in the cellar 3 years running. Remember, we are often beating ourselves atm. Our dare for flair is costing us bigtime. But it will get better next year, you can see us cutting up teams when it pays off (the saints supporter behind me at the game was losing her sh**!).

I think we'll be risers. Not crazy high risers like the Burj Khalifa. More like the R&I tower. About mid table like Mike I suggested.

 

[Kenny_01]

Just re-watched the game on the weekend and Brennan Cox's first half is a good a first half we have seen from a key forward in some time. We know Tabs looks like gold once every 10 weeks (usually first game back from being dropped) however Cox's work rate and nous was excellent. There was that one play where he had 3 possessions in one forward thrust and then a couple of times, he just knew the perfect time to double back and lead at the ball carrier when running towards goal. That topped with his athleticism and marking means we should have a player. His kicking looks like it has really improved also.

Having said that, from his first 3 games he has a bit to work on to. Sometimes his urgency isn't at the level required. I'm hoping that is just him adjusting to the speed of AFL and it has been getting better every week.

 

[Timmytime]

A nice summation of our position and needs. I would add that I think our list has the makings of a gun team with a little more experience. A top line, once in a generation forward would be the icing to finally get us a flag IMO.

I don't think it would ever happen, but someone like Patton would be the one. He's living up to his #1 pick status now after some cruel injuries. Such a beast of a forward.

 

[Joao]

I see what you're saying but I'd counter the johnsons and mundys slowing down with the rise of our 3rd to 4th years and emergence of our 2nd to 3rds. I'm talking Blakely, Weller, Darcy, Hughes, Balic, Logue, A.Pearce, Tucker, Nyhuis, Ryan etc. There is a lot of talent poised to take the reigns.

At this rate we know enough to say it would take a breathtaking drop of form and hunger for their development to not rise again. E.g. Blakely is already close to or above Mundy's current output IMO. Yes, we'll lose experience. But we'll gain fresh legs and brains.

I like the balance of the list, there are definitely some big holes to fill, but not enough to hold the team down in the cellar 3 years running. Remember, we are often beating ourselves atm. Our dare for flair is costing us bigtime. But it will get better next year, you can see us cutting up teams when it pays off (the saints supporter behind me at the game was losing her sh**!).

I think we'll be risers. Not crazy high risers like the Burj Khalifa. More like the R&I tower. About mid table like Mike I suggested.

I agree the talent is there but it hasn't transferred fully to ability yet for all those players. I agree Blakely is pretty close to Mundy in output this year (except forward). The rest may end up better players but won't be (on average) next year. Even the Giants 40 top 10 picks took several years to take the load.

When the talent all gels in patches/games it will be obvious because they will tear sides a new one, but I don't think it is realistic to expect them to maintain it long enough with so little experience. Hopefully I am wrong, but we have had a pretty big reset this year. We have to patient.

Bottom 6 is likely, and frankly we WANT a top 3 pick next year. Some freakish talents in the 2018 draft.

Just re-watched the game on the weekend and Brennan Cox's first half is a good a first half we have seen from a key forward in some time. We know Tabs looks like gold once every 10 weeks (usually first game back from being dropped) however Cox's work rate and nous was excellent. There was that one play where he had 3 possessions in one forward thrust and then a couple of times, he just knew the perfect time to double back and lead at the ball carrier when running towards goal. That topped with his athleticism and marking means we should have a player. His kicking looks like it has really improved also.

Having said that, from his first 3 games he has a bit to work on to. Sometimes his urgency isn't at the level required. I'm hoping that is just him adjusting to the speed of AFL and it has been getting better every week.

Yeah its fair to say the Cox exceeding my and many others expectations especially up forward. I wouldn't have been as surprised if he was having similar output down back where he was underage AA.

Very difficult to teach the natural smarts and hands he has. Super atheletic as well. The laconic style doesn't really bother me. Typical of the basketball background players.

Also Tex hardly ever seems to be in a rush and is some sort of CHF. Will take Cox = Tex please.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Question - If Matera was available for 400k and a 3rd round pick and Motlop was was available for 500k but is a FA who would you pick?

They have a similar game, with Matera playing a bit closer to goal.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=24&type=A&pid1=3145&pid2=3616&fid1=S&fid2=S

 

[Joao]

Question - If Matera was available for 400k and a 3rd round pick and Motlop was was available for 500k but is a FA who would you pick?

They have a similar game, with Matera playing a bit closer to goal.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=24&type=A&pid1=3145&pid2=3616&fid1=S&fid2=S

They are both lazy as ****. Matera kicks more goals when he is trying, so him. When have few natural forwards and he is definitely that.

 

[Nickos66]

Motlop wouldn't get away with being lazy here - i'd back him in to work hard and make the most of it if we picked him up.

 

[Joao]

Motlop wouldn't get away with being lazy here - i'd back him in to work hard and make the most of it if we picked him up.

Colin Sylvia didn't get out of bed here. Motlop is definitely not that bad but Ross would be wary you think...

 

[Nickos66]

Colin Sylvia didn't get out of bed here. Motlop is definitely not that bad but Ross would be wary you think...

Yeah that did come to mind, which is why I think the club wouldn't go for it, period. Still..

 

[apuchar]

https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl-dr...aft-sights-on-maurice-rioli-jnr-ng-b88529512z

 

[DaveLister]

https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl-dr...aft-sights-on-maurice-rioli-jnr-ng-b88529512z

I'm surprised there hasn't been an adjustment to the rule making us ineligible

 

[Nickos66]

I'm surprised there hasn't been an adjustment to the rule making us ineligible

There has.

That WAFL game precedent rule expired what, 2 years ago? This topic was touched on already by a few elsewhere in here. Mr VFL Sheehan didn't do his homework when he spouted this off recently on TV.

We're not eligible.

 

[DaveLister]

There has.

That WAFL game precedent rule expired what, 2 years ago? This topic was touched on already by a few elsewhere in here. Mr VFL Sheehan didn't do his homework when he spouted this off recently on TV.

We're not eligible.

Yeah that's what I thought, quality journalism

 

[apuchar]

Yeah that's what I thought, quality journalism

I found it hard to believe two different sources would get it wrong. Oh well.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Watching Hodge direct his team mates in the back line, position them perfectly made me wonder who our back line General is?

Johnson and Spurr are really the only experience players we have down there, and neither appear to me to be directing the younger team. Perhaps this is something we need even if he was only a Maxwell or Tom Harley level player who don't cost the world.

 

[Dump Truck]

Watching Hodge direct his team mates in the back line, position them perfectly made me wonder who our back line General is?

Johnson and Spurr are really the only experience players we have down there, and neither appear to me to be directing the younger team. Perhaps this is something we need even if he was only a Maxwell or Tom Harley level player who don't cost the world.

This is why I want Logue to play as many games alongside Johnson/Spurr as possible. He seems to have a good lid on things and was a bit of a general in his draft year. Alex Pearce was pretty good as well in his games before he got injured. Hamling has surprised me as well this year, wouldn't discount his input.

 

[Joao]

This is why I want Logue to play as many games alongside Johnson/Spurr as possible. He seems to have a good lid on things and was a bit of a general in his draft year. Alex Pearce was pretty good as well in his games before he got injured. Hamling has surprised me as well this year, wouldn't discount his input.

One will come out in the wash I have no doubt. This is why it is important to keep at least one of Johnno or Spurr in the team all of next year. They need to prepare the next backline leaders.