ydraw
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He's a good contested mark for his height. He's not a good enough contested mark to play as a key forward.
Adelaide play 3 key forwards in front of him each week.
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He's a good contested mark for his height. He's not a good enough contested mark to play as a key forward.
Adelaide play 3 key forwards in front of him each week.
Snuffaluphagus
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Cerra has overtaken Stephenson for you or its more a list needs thing?
Chris25
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Four picks down, one to go...
#7 Darcy Fogarty (192cm, 92kg forward/midfielder)
Best available, think most people know about him now.
#42 Nicholas Shipley (190cm, 90kg midfielder)
A GWS Academy player. We don't exactly have many big bodied midfielders developing, take out Fyfe, Mundy and Blakely and the cupboard is bare. Shipley is a true contested ball winner and looks to have plenty of improvement to come.
#58 Jack Hardman (173cm, 67kg forward)
A Swans Academy player this time. One of the more natural small forwards in the draft, his height will be an issue for some. But he has real speed, has done well in the NEAFL so far and has a little Ballantyne about him around goals.
#60 Thomas Schmusch (192cm, 81kg defender)
More of a best available pick, and no other tall appealed to me here. He was shaping as a top 25 player at the start of the year, but has dropped a bit. He hasn't been bad though, just went about his business at the Championships without much fuss. Can play shut down or rebound, also plays as a lead up forward. Last year he rated elite for rebounding, and formed a great pairing with Brennan Cox. Bit like Josh Rotham.
#7 Darcy Fogarty (192cm, 92kg forward/midfielder)
Best available, think most people know about him now.
#42 Nicholas Shipley (190cm, 90kg midfielder)
A GWS Academy player. We don't exactly have many big bodied midfielders developing, take out Fyfe, Mundy and Blakely and the cupboard is bare. Shipley is a true contested ball winner and looks to have plenty of improvement to come.
#58 Jack Hardman (173cm, 67kg forward)
A Swans Academy player this time. One of the more natural small forwards in the draft, his height will be an issue for some. But he has real speed, has done well in the NEAFL so far and has a little Ballantyne about him around goals.
#60 Thomas Schmusch (192cm, 81kg defender)
More of a best available pick, and no other tall appealed to me here. He was shaping as a top 25 player at the start of the year, but has dropped a bit. He hasn't been bad though, just went about his business at the Championships without much fuss. Can play shut down or rebound, also plays as a lead up forward. Last year he rated elite for rebounding, and formed a great pairing with Brennan Cox. Bit like Josh Rotham.
Chris if we went with Fogerty, would he help McCarthy or Kersten, or is he another McCarthy and upgrade on Kersten?
What worries me is that he is a Shannon Hurn manchild, not much development left.
We are asking alot of Cox, and who will pinch hit in the ruck?
A player over 194cm seems the obvious choice.
Chris25
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I certainly hope the long term plan isn't for Cox to be the backup ruckman. I think he'll eventually be settled into a position, but for now him rucking offers the most versatility. As opposed to having to shuffle the entire back half for Johnson to go into the ruck.
The problem is we can't pick a guy simply because he's over 195cm. Neither Brander or Sutherland would offer any ruck help. And someone like Hayes is best as a #1 ruck, which we obviously have Darcy for. I'd be more inclined to keep going with Strnadica and Apeness (who I'd delist and look to move to the rookie list) next year, and reassess. We're already being forced to play Strnadica in the reserves because there aren't enough ruck minutes in a game, adding another to the mix would hurt everyone's development.
Fogarty, I think, has plenty of development still to come. His midfield game hasn't even begun yet, get him fully fit and see what he can do in the middle. But for now, he should be an upgrade on Kersten and has the body to crash packs that McCarthy doesn't.
The problem is we can't pick a guy simply because he's over 195cm. Neither Brander or Sutherland would offer any ruck help. And someone like Hayes is best as a #1 ruck, which we obviously have Darcy for. I'd be more inclined to keep going with Strnadica and Apeness (who I'd delist and look to move to the rookie list) next year, and reassess. We're already being forced to play Strnadica in the reserves because there aren't enough ruck minutes in a game, adding another to the mix would hurt everyone's development.
Fogarty, I think, has plenty of development still to come. His midfield game hasn't even begun yet, get him fully fit and see what he can do in the middle. But for now, he should be an upgrade on Kersten and has the body to crash packs that McCarthy doesn't.
Some interesting choices there. Havent heard of the last three personally, but the idea of taking a big bodied midfielder and a speedy small forward at those picks are some decent choices. Unsure whether taking a 192 defender is the right choice but then it will depend of who remains on the list at the end of the year. A speedy mid like tim kelly would be one id look at. Even a project forward like hugh dixon. Again depends on who remains on the list.
The interesting one for me is fogarty, who didnt really impress me during the championships. Seems to have all the attributes but just didnt stand out. Brander is still my first choice as he fills the need for the 195 kpf and i really liked what i saw of him.
Id be interested to know where you see fogarty ending up playing and whos spot he takes? Is he a mid that rests forward?
If we can somehow get back into the 2nd round.. and potentially get a Kreuger, Ballard, Hugh Dixon type as another developing tall, i would be more than happy taking best available with our first. Be that a utility type like Fogarty (rate him highly - his last game playing half back showed his kicking/decision making skills) or the best available mid. If Brander is still there though, I would be tempted, but I can see him going before our 5-7 pick depending on Will Sutherland's decision.
Snuffaluphagus
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Given how much time I've spent looking at draft videos the past month I thought I'd have a look at Fyfes. When you watch this "highlights" reel you cant help but respect recruiters for what they do. Its not an easy job.
Quick edit: There are better videos out there but I think this goes to show how much you cant base it off of one game. You have to base it off the special moments and put it all into perspective. Still a hard job...
Quick edit: There are better videos out there but I think this goes to show how much you cant base it off of one game. You have to base it off the special moments and put it all into perspective. Still a hard job...
It's certainly an eye opener in retrospect. He was a spud in that game. Did absolutely nothing of note and I am not sure how anyone projected that turning into what Fyfe was in 2015. Obviously they watched a lot more but certainly shows how difficult it is, as you say.
That is the stuff I think that points out you can't be too harsh on guys who don't have big U18 champs.
Snuffaluphagus
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For me it makes me relax on the idea of taking Fogarty. Yeah he's had an average game or two but the things he did last year, and some of the moments so far this year makes me think he could be something special. Helps to have the unlimited drive Fyfe has to be the best though...
LemmingMaster on the draft board led a bit of a charge against Fogarty based on what he saw this year only in the U18s games. He is ignoring the gameplay that was evident in last year's all-stars matches or his SANFL games. But each to their own.
Sometimes you can see glimpses of a very successful style in not very much. For example I note that Chris25 rates Nick Shipley in this draft; if you have a look at his game even on video, you can see little bits (positioning, evasion) that says "he could be really super effective with a little more honing of that bit". I think the same with Fyfe in that video (Fyfe had a breakout game that year at Colts scoring 9 goals in a game for Claremont; and as Smart still had input that draft and loved his tigers players).
Whos the third ?...tom lynch?
ydraw
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Andy Otten
Its first time ive heard Andy Otten described as a "key" fwd ,
from memory hes played most of his football as a "3rd" tall in the backline....its only been the last 2 seasons he's been playing up fwd...but each to their own , regardless can guarantee Adelaide would pick gov jr ahead of him every day of the week if it becomes a choice of between the two
ydraw
Norm Smith Medallist
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Otten is 194cm, chops out in the ruck and averages more contested marks per game than McGovern does. He might have played a lot in the backline previously but he's played exclusively as a key forward/resting ruck this year.
McGovern is a third tall. He's a very good third tall but he doesn't fit our needs which is for a genuine key forward who takes contested marks. We already have 2 third talls in McCarthy and Kersten.
ydraw
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He's also be #1 at our club for contested marks and marks inside 50 if he was playing for us.
Lol
Well I just seen sam collins bit earlier munging all you can eat tacos at south beach tacos tonight and can confirm...his hair wasnt spiked..so I guess ottens got him covered
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Against lesser opposition than the U18 championships, but Shipley does some seriously nice things in this game:
We have had some inspired selections with A pearce, S Darcy, and B Cox later in the drafts, if we do go best available with our first rounder, I am looking forward to who our selectors pick in the later rounds.
Nathan Kreuger is an interesting prospect, a left footer, indigenous? Tall forward, as Chris has noted, could be the Griffen Logue this year.
I like the look of Krueger - nice hands and agile for a kpf
My vote is for Fogerty.
Look at his work last year as an underager, he was carrying an injury this championship so I wouldn't read too much into his most recent champs.
Just has some unique traits that are both Mundy like ( his evasion ) and Fyfe like (aerial / forward craft and hands) .
I reckon he'll be a solid investment with low risk.
Put some level of faith in apeness as a forward next year then trade/recruit a proven forward.
It's likely that Sutherland, Hayes and to lesser extent brander would not be ready to play KPF next year at AFL level anyway.
Look at his work last year as an underager, he was carrying an injury this championship so I wouldn't read too much into his most recent champs.
Just has some unique traits that are both Mundy like ( his evasion ) and Fyfe like (aerial / forward craft and hands) .
I reckon he'll be a solid investment with low risk.
Put some level of faith in apeness as a forward next year then trade/recruit a proven forward.
It's likely that Sutherland, Hayes and to lesser extent brander would not be ready to play KPF next year at AFL level anyway.
Kreuger is probably the most well rounded of those few for mine.. good hands and moves really well, makes good decisions generally. Would need to put on a stack of weight though.. Dixon for me is a fwd version of Darcy, fair bit of puppy fat but you can see he's a natural footballer and is a dead eye dick in front of the sticks. Kreuger plays further up the ground from what I've seen but thats probably more due to the other SA options
