Player Watch #1 - Jesse Hogan - traded to Freo - #fistedforever

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Topkent

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We've gotten two full games of AFL into him as opposed to one VFL game, given that Casey just had the bye. If we'd waited for him to string together 3 weeks of VFL form he wouldn't be back until the St Kilda game.

I would have less of an issue if we werent bringing Smith and Gawn in at the same time. We need to win every week yet we are costing ourselves quarters having non match fit players.
 
Apr 12, 2014
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We've gotten two full games of AFL into him as opposed to one VFL game, given that Casey just had the bye. If we'd waited for him to string together 3 weeks of VFL form he wouldn't be back until the St Kilda game.

If we had put him in the vfl for just one week who knows how he goes last night? He is a confidence player and we did him no favours picking him straight away in the afl side rather than giving him even just one week of vfl.
 
I would have less of an issue if we werent bringing Smith and Gawn in at the same time. We need to win every week yet we are costing ourselves quarters having non match fit players.
It's not like we have much ammo left though.

Ideal best 22 for mine:

B: Jetta OMac Hibb
HB: Hunt Frost Salem
C: Jones Tyson Lewis
HF: Petracca Watts Harmes
F: Garlett Hogan Hannan
R: Gawn Viney Oliver
Int: Vince Bugg ANB Melksham

So 6 of those 22 missing.

Add to that vandenBerg and Brayshaw unable to play as depth midfield options.

Smith is the break-in-case-of-emergency as the HBFer. It's allowed Wagner to play a higher role at times and add to the outside rotation. It's not something that Trengove is able to do - he's too slow to add to the outside movement.

Gawn is a different case. Given that he and Spencil were both fit at the same time, it's not like you're robbing Peter to pay Paul on that front. And if we rolled with Pedo and let Gawn get form right now we'd be stuffed for talls, given Pedo and Watts were sharing ruck time up until Max came back. If we played neither Hogan nor Gawn, our talls would be OMac, TMac, Frost and Pedersen. That's it.
 
If we had put him in the vfl for just one week who knows how he goes last night? He is a confidence player and we did him no favours picking him straight away in the afl side rather than giving him even just one week of vfl.
And if he stank it up in the VFL, given he's a confidence player? What then? How do you pick a 'confidence player' for AFL footy if they have a rubbish week in the VFL?

I think it's confidence from the match committee and Goody in him. I'm happy to give him the time and repay the faith. Don't get me wrong, I want finals as much as any of you, but I also want this guy to have the best chance of success at the MFC, and I firmly believe that VFL footy doesn't give him that.
 

Topkent

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And if he stank it up in the VFL, given he's a confidence player? What then? How do you pick a 'confidence player' for AFL footy if they have a rubbish week in the VFL?

I think it's confidence from the match committee and Goody in him. I'm happy to give him the time and repay the faith. Don't get me wrong, I want finals as much as any of you, but I also want this guy to have the best chance of success at the MFC, and I firmly believe that VFL footy doesn't give him that.

If he stunk it up in the VFL then hes not good enough to play in the AFL, thats pretty simple mate. Someone who has been out for 2 months needed a game to beat up on some easy VFL kids take some marks and kick some goals without pressure rather than being thrown into the hear of a finals race.
 
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And if he stank it up in the VFL, given he's a confidence player? What then? How do you pick a 'confidence player' for AFL footy if they have a rubbish week in the VFL?

I think it's confidence from the match committee and Goody in him. I'm happy to give him the time and repay the faith. Don't get me wrong, I want finals as much as any of you, but I also want this guy to have the best chance of success at the MFC, and I firmly believe that VFL footy doesn't give him that.

His vfl track record indicates he is extremely unlikely to stink it up in the vfl though, whereas in AFL he has usually been quiet after even just one week off.
 
If he stunk it up in the VFL then hes not good enough to play in the AFL, thats pretty simple mate. Someone who has been out for 2 months needed a game to beat up on some easy VFL kids take some marks and kick some goals without pressure rather than being thrown into the hear of a finals race.
So then we're trapped with our Sydney forward line plus Jeffy. That went well.
 
Same forward line that tore apart Adelaide WC etc
Didn't tear apart Adelaide. We've won one game without Hogan and Watts - the Eagles game. And I don't call a 3pt win 'tearing apart'.

Not to mention you aren't factoring in the lesser midfield in these discussions. Shittier midfields tend to work better with strong forward targets - see Essendon.
 

Topkent

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Didn't tear apart Adelaide. We've won one game without Hogan and Watts - the Eagles game. And I don't call a 3pt win 'tearing apart'.

Not to mention you aren't factoring in the lesser midfield in these discussions. Shittier midfields tend to work better with strong forward targets - see Essendon.

We beat Adelaide by 7 goals earlier in the year without Hogan beat WC, beat Hawthorn and Port last year without him. We have only played 3 games without Watts you cant surely be using that as an example.

Right a lesser midfield means we need more efficient entries so we need the blokes down there to be confident match fit and working hard, not trying to remember what its like to play footy again. No player is good enough to be allowed to find their feet for the detriment of the team IMO
 
Hogan was actually good in the second half though. Just his kicking that was off, and its understandable that he's gone back to old habits.
 
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Hey guys, good effort on Saturday with so many key players out - we had something like 20 of our best 22 out there.

Can you help me with a discussion going on our board ... just hypotheticals about if Lever went to Melbourne who would be a fair swap (not a reality trade, just in terms of quality) and the likes of Petracca and Hogan are being thrown into the mix.

Is Jesse Hogan one of the more skilled players on the Melbourne List? I remember Roos commenting that he was mightily impressed with the young man's overall skill levels but I couldn't find a reference?
 
Hey guys, good effort on Saturday with so many key players out - we had something like 20 of our best 22 out there.

Can you help me with a discussion going on our board ... just hypotheticals about if Lever went to Melbourne who would be a fair swap (not a reality trade, just in terms of quality) and the likes of Petracca and Hogan are being thrown into the mix.

Is Jesse Hogan one of the more skilled players on the Melbourne List? I remember Roos commenting that he was mightily impressed with the young man's overall skill levels but I couldn't find a reference?
Difficult to gauge as good backs like Lever are probably more rare than good mids.
In saying that, Petracca could be anything so we'd never consider that because he has what it takes to be one of the top few players in the league.
Hogan has battled since coming back and rightly so, been through a lot so again, difficult to say.
You can have Bernie back if you like?
 
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Difficult to gauge as good backs like Lever are probably more rare than good mids.
In saying that, Petracca could be anything so we'd never consider that because he has what it takes to be one of the top few players in the league.
Hogan has battled since coming back and rightly so, been through a lot so again, difficult to say.
You can have Bernie back if you like?
My question is on Hogan - he is very highly skilled player right? He's more than just a bollocking forward that can take a grab. I know Roos was waxing lyrical about him on some show ... just cannot remember which one :)

I'd actually do the Lever for Petracca deal - you guys have a lot of good midfielders, and we could do with a bull like Christian in our squad. Lever is going to be the best intercept defender in the league for the next 5-10 years which would suit your profile ... but we need some inside polish now !!
 

Russian Demon

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My question is on Hogan - he is very highly skilled player right? He's more than just a bollocking forward that can take a grab. I know Roos was waxing lyrical about him on some show ... just cannot remember which one :)

I'd actually do the Lever for Petracca deal - you guys have a lot of good midfielders, and we could do with a bull like Christian in our squad. Lever is going to be the best intercept defender in the league for the next 5-10 years which would suit your profile ... but we need some inside polish now !!

Hogan has good skills, brilliant field kick when played higher up the ground. In reality, without putting on 15kg, Jesse will be a better player if we play him higher up the ground and make him run a bit more (I always think he looks like he's dragging a crate of bricks when he runs).

In regard to Lever.... I get he's an intercept marker, but what is he like defending 1 on 1 or even 1 on 2? Our defensive structure is set up so that every player is accountable for whoever is close by. We don't really have that loose defender who picks off the high ball coming in (at least not since Howe left.... but he is a shocker when accountable to a man).

If it was me doing the deal, I'd want those questions on Lever answered. He's a great prospect, but when playing loose, players look a lot better than they often are.

In terms of a deal, it'll be high draft picks and steak knives. No way are we trading Hogan after everything (and our complete lack of big forwards). And as far as Petracca goes, we just don't need another half back that badly to do a trade like that. Truck is something special, will break the game apart soon enough.

Untouchables for us are Hogan, Viney, Nev, Hunt, TMac, Petracca, Salem and Oliver (I figured you won't want the old guard). As far as mids go, our second string of guys like Neal-Bullen, probably Brayshaw (I'll get slaughtered for that), Kennedy Harris ect ect.
 
My question is on Hogan - he is very highly skilled player right? He's more than just a bollocking forward that can take a grab. I know Roos was waxing lyrical about him on some show ... just cannot remember which one :)

I'd actually do the Lever for Petracca deal - you guys have a lot of good midfielders, and we could do with a bull like Christian in our squad. Lever is going to be the best intercept defender in the league for the next 5-10 years which would suit your profile ... but we need some inside polish now !!
Yeah Jesse's field kicking is actually spot on but he's far too important to us structurally long term.
I don't think we'd trade Petracca for anyone in the comp to be honest so that's just a flat out no here.
Lever is a gun I agree but there'd be other ways to get the deal done
 
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Hogan has good skills, brilliant field kick when played higher up the ground. In reality, without putting on 15kg, Jesse will be a better player if we play him higher up the ground and make him run a bit more (I always think he looks like he's dragging a crate of bricks when he runs).

In regard to Lever.... I get he's an intercept marker, but what is he like defending 1 on 1 or even 1 on 2? Our defensive structure is set up so that every player is accountable for whoever is close by. We don't really have that loose defender who picks off the high ball coming in (at least not since Howe left.... but he is a shocker when accountable to a man).

If it was me doing the deal, I'd want those questions on Lever answered. He's a great prospect, but when playing loose, players look a lot better than they often are.

In terms of a deal, it'll be high draft picks and steak knives. No way are we trading Hogan after everything (and our complete lack of big forwards). And as far as Petracca goes, we just don't need another half back that badly to do a trade like that. Truck is something special, will break the game apart soon enough.

Untouchables for us are Hogan, Viney, Nev, Hunt, TMac, Petracca, Salem and Oliver (I figured you won't want the old guard). As far as mids go, our second string of guys like Neal-Bullen, probably Brayshaw (I'll get slaughtered for that), Kennedy Harris ect ect.
Yep, I don't think Hogan or Petracca are going anywhere - let's get that clear :) We are talking about pure swap on talent / potential.

Lever is a gun 1-on-1, but he also leaves his player when he has to to help the team. His kicking is very good, and will only get better ... he is as hard as nails ... loves the physical contact (he chose Footy over a boxing career). He has better stats than Rance did at the same age.

Agree on Petracca, he could be a top 5 of the comp style superstar.
 

Russian Demon

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Yep, I don't think Hogan or Petracca are going anywhere - let's get that clear :) We are talking about pure swap on talent / potential.

Lever is a gun 1-on-1, but he also leaves his player when he has to to help the team. His kicking is very good, and will only get better ... he is as hard as nails ... loves the physical contact (he chose Footy over a boxing career). He has better stats than Rance did at the same age.

Agree on Petracca, he could be a top 5 of the comp style superstar.

Well if Lever is as good as the media wank-fest would lead one to believe then I'd be more than happy to have him. We are, however in the position where we'd be selling low on all our developing midfield talent. Until an elite mid can't get a game for us (with our injuries, that isn't happening), then all we have to trade of value is picks and solid "best 22 but not elite" type players.

I won't insult you with a "5 spuds equals 1 Lever" type trade, but you're welcome to pretty much anybody at Casey.
 

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Apparently being annoyed at the club for not putting him in the VFL means we aren't backing him.

If you aren't 100% positive, you are 1000% negative. Consider a veil with which to show off your fashionable negativity.
 
No way we give up a player
Lol not just that people think that we're just going to easily convince one of our players to move to Adelaide, when the reason Lever himself is trying to come to Melbourne is to be closer to home. When has a trade like that ever happened?

This trade will come down to draft picks or it won't happen at all, there won't be any best 25 players involved. That's the nature of the competition.
 

Russian Demon

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Yeah, picks or no deal unfortunately. If the last few years has taught me anything, its that you develop your talent and convince them to buy in. If they don't trade them out for someone who will.
 
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