Mongrel - who has it who doesn't ? Does it Matter?

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Goldfish.

Silverchair going the Numbers....

1, 2, 3, 4......
Hey, stop editing posts after I like them, you don't get a chance to like them twice
 
Brisbane bitch slapped us on the weekend. It was obvious. We were physically bullied. And they aint no powerhouse. Its hard to ask what is essentially a team of kids to show teal mongrel. Its what makes Powell-pepper so unique.

Disagree - Murphy/Gibbs/Kerridge/Graham aren't 'kids' neither is Casboult who hasn't put a knee into anyone's back to make them hurt in months- Jones can harden up a bit as well and learn to make incidental contact as he attacks the ball needs to instill some fear into opposition not just rely on his outstanding closing speed and jump - like Rance does at every opportunity and Scarlett used to do perfectly every time.

Real mongrel is a team based approach thats why you need mongrels. If a bloke hits one of yours - someone makes the next tackle really nasty and someone else makes sure that the offender cops a whack at first opportunity - and ALWAYS the Captain has to make sure that the umps are aware of the foul play the opposition is getting away with. The continual ducking frees should have been challenged by Murphy on the field as well. Gibbs was being held all day - he needed to make it obvious what was going on...etc etc etc...

also there is nothing wrong with letting a ducker fall into the ground ( literally) stand off as soon as he starts falling and point at him - the bloke has no intention of running through congestion it is deliberate free milking - even the commentators predicted he would play this caper and he did...

Field management includes ump management as well as opposition management.

Mongrel also includes having the smarts to 'help' umps when required - the best teams have always done this well.
 

Davey33

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i know he's not playing now but denis armfield has a little bit i reckon
on that topic, why is he not playing? Like it seems like he has been delibrately sidelined
i know he's not playing now but denis armfield has a little bit i reckon
on that topic, can someone please tell me why isn't he playing this year? i was a little out of it between from the middle of last year till the beginning of this but it seems like he's totally dissapeared, what happened?
he's always given us alot over the years with, pace, handy goals and done some very good defensive/tagging roles over the years, why wouldn't he be in the side more often and ahead of some of the recyled players that have been playing this year? and hes officially part of the leadership group for 2017...

why are guys like graham ahead of him?
 
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I think on occasions this year we've been unsociable. I recall us giving Mills a tough time when we beat the Swans at the MCG this year. It was also evident at Metricon when Gary Ablett Jr spent the game whinging to the umpires about the tactics during the game. The last fortnight? Haven't we given away free kicks before the game started. I think that demonstrates bravado is a load of bs.

We have a long lineage of mongrels playing for the club. Nicholls, Waite, Johnston, Pinnell, Buckley, Crosswell, Collins, Brown, Rhy-Jones, Maclure, Lofts and plenty more. They could all play as well however times have changed and the game has been homogenised.

I think it's a redundant talent and, as a consequence, a waste of energy.

Give me a team of tough and courageous players who tackle and compete as if their lives depend on it. Modern day players who do this as a team will be successful.
 
I think on occasions this year we've been unsociable. I recall us giving Mills a tough time when we beat the Swans at the MCG this year. It was also evident at Metricon when Gary Ablett Jr spent the game whinging to the umpires about the tactics during the game. The last fortnight? Haven't we given away free kicks before the game started. I think that demonstrates bravado is a load of bs.

We have a long lineage of mongrels playing for the club. Nicholls, Waite, Johnston, Pinnell, Buckley, Crosswell, Collins, Brown, Rhy-Jones, Maclure, Lofts and plenty more. They could all play as well however times have changed and the game has been homogenised.

I think it's a redundant talent and, as a consequence, a waste of energy.

Give me a team of tough and courageous players who tackle and compete as if their lives depend on it. Modern day players who do this as a team will be successful.

1. Bravado isnt mongrel - it is BS. I hate the fairy floss push and shove routine - usually followed by a giggle and laugh shortly afterwards- that is not mongrel. A mongrel will always put the target to ground and go to work from there...

the best true mongrel act I've seen at Carlton in years was Walker fixing Milne well and truly up...THAT was mongrel payback...Milne never recovered

2. Tough and courageous players? mate every player HAS to be tough and courageous otherwise they shouldn't be playing - but mongrel by definition is tough and courageous and then has that little bit extra - he wants to dominate his opponent and seeks to dominate
 
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Disagree - Murphy/Gibbs/Kerridge/Graham aren't 'kids' neither is Casboult who hasn't put a knee into anyone's back to make them hurt in months- Jones can harden up a bit as well and learn to make incidental contact as he attacks the ball needs to instill some fear into opposition not just rely on his outstanding closing speed and jump - like Rance does at every opportunity and Scarlett used to do perfectly every time.

Real mongrel is a team based approach thats why you need mongrels. If a bloke hits one of yours - someone makes the next tackle really nasty and someone else makes sure that the offender cops a whack at first opportunity - and ALWAYS the Captain has to make sure that the umps are aware of the foul play the opposition is getting away with. The continual ducking frees should have been challenged by Murphy on the field as well. Gibbs was being held all day - he needed to make it obvious what was going on...etc etc etc...

also there is nothing wrong with letting a ducker fall into the ground ( literally) stand off as soon as he starts falling and point at him - the bloke has no intention of running through congestion it is deliberate free milking - even the commentators predicted he would play this caper and he did...

Field management includes ump management as well as opposition management.

Mongrel also includes having the smarts to 'help' umps when required - the best teams have always done this well.
Interesting thread, JAB.

For me at least, it depends on how you define mongrel. Is it, as you've described elsewhere in this thread, the hatred of losing to the point where the prospect of doing so brings out your best? Is it making sure that you hit a player hard enough in a tackle or a bump, as you describe above, to stop them from playing for frees or niggling? Is it the borderline whinging you outline above?

If it's the first of that list, absolutely we need more mongrel; if it's the second, I'm all for it, but I'd prefer we select players based off their skill over their outrage at their teammates mistreatment; retaliation gets players suspended. If it's telling the umpire they've got it wrong, then I'm completely against it; you think a player telling you off is going to make them more likely to give you a free? They'll whack you round the ears with a fifty for dissent, and so they bloody should.

If we're referring to the second - as that forms what most would describe as mongrel, hardness on the footy field - then that seems to me to be a version of the masculine bullshit that the older versions of the sport celebrated; the big hits, behind play, bumps ironing a bloke out, having enforcers out there in case of the opposition went troppo. If we're looking at the modern incarnations of that mindset, we need look no further than Hawthorn, who it irks me to say are the best team of the AFL era; whenever stuff started to go against them on the field, they went the knuckle, with Hodge and Lewis usually the first in. Cyril in his early days played hard, too, but cleaned up when he got suspended a few times for bumps that knocked blokes out.

Bear in mind, though, that while those players all are good players, it is their skill for which they'll be remembered. In the big matches, these players should be defined by how they stepped up and did what needed to be done for their team, in terms of how they rose when challenged. That is the key to success, not the argy bargy masculinity driven push and shove dominance rubbish.

Get in players who simply hate to lose, and you will not risk them getting distracted by those whose predilections lie in the physical side of the game. They'll play the ball first, and after the match is over point at the scoreboard.
 

Cripps17

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For me, basically from an instigator point of view I'd just like to see us target players as we have with Ablett etc. Doesn't need to go beyond that.

Don't care for jumper punches, stomach punches, the stuff Mumford does etc.

However if one of our players goes down I expect the team to remonstrate - seeing Lamb get knocked out, Plowman winded etc. while our senior players do nothing is embarrassing. Credit to our junior guys who are finally breaking this trend.
 
Sorry Harks - we ARE poor we are so poor in the real mongrel stakes we are broken. Mongrels don't concede 7 goal quarters they figure out who is causing the damage and do some DAMAGE...pro-active they don't need a coaches yelling session at half time to want to beat the mofos on the other side...

Maybe, but it's no coincidence that this thread would pop up on the back of what maybe our worst performance of the year. Nevertheless......

It is though difficult to make a point without getting to the crux of the matter and that is that we don't lead with mongrel.
You can't go out and ask your troops to go in head first when you yourself don't really want to do so. Where's the standard to aspire to? Where would the on-field directive come from?

I have felt for some time that we may be a different team under different on-field direction.

Good thread Jab.:thumbsu:
 

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Stiffler's Dad

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You missed Casboult.

Doesn't always channel it correctly, but it is there.

I think Casboult gets angry at times.
There is a distinct difference between angry and mongrel.
Angry is more a result of frustration and more often than not brings on a bad result i.e. a costly goal or a 50 meter penalty (negative).
Mongrel equals hardness and in my opinion you need it in spades to succeed at the highest level in sport (positive).
 
Maybe, but it's no coincidence that this thread would pop up on the back of what maybe our worst performance of the year. Nevertheless......

It is though difficult to make a point without getting to the crux of the matter and that is that we don't lead with mongrel.
You can't go out and ask your troops to go in head first when you yourself don't really want to do so. Where's the standard to aspire to? Where would the on-field directive come from?

I have felt for some time that we may be a different team under different on-field direction.

Good thread Jab.:thumbsu:

I've been on the absent mongrel' theme for about 5 years now....Brisbane game was an example of the same strategy employed by many ordinary sides to get over the top of Carlton - for years now.
 

Dadda Dave

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What about every play from the club throw in $100 a week each to pay for fines if any opposition try any crap we can return the favour in spades and what $ is left the boys can put it on a favorite at Flemington. .
 

Stiffler's Dad

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I think Casboult gets angry at times.
There is a distinct difference between angry and mongrel.
Angry is more a result of frustration and more often than not brings on a bad result i.e. a costly goal or a 50 meter penalty (negative).
Mongrel equals hardness and in my opinion you need it in spades to succeed at the highest level in sport (positive).

Just some further thoughts.
Being either a smart footballer or being a dumb footballer is paramount to culture and success and is related to the above; it shows both on and off the field.
I reckon a few names come to the fore from our list instantly to all of us.
Maybe it can be summed up as character, and I think SOS has our back in this regard.
 
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For me, basically from an instigator point of view I'd just like to see us target players as we have with Ablett etc. Doesn't need to go beyond that.

Don't care for jumper punches, stomach punches, the stuff Mumford does etc.

However if one of our players goes down I expect the team to remonstrate - seeing Lamb get knocked out, Plowman winded etc. while our senior players do nothing is embarrassing. Credit to our junior guys who are finally breaking this trend.
I agree with this 100%. I don't want goober players who hit behind play and are constantly suspended, but I do want them to legally niggle, stand up for themselves and each other, and not get pushed around anymore.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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The bloke with the most amount of mongrel we have hasn't been mentioned. You people.... JED LAMB. You want players with a bit of s**t in them? Look no further. I reckon the guy is so used to being combative that he talks s**t about himself in his sleep.

But in any case, I find the whole topic to be lame. Everyone is different. Some players with the attitude of Lamb as described above are great for a team to have, but otherwise, the standard rules apply: play hard, play fair, and don't take s**t from the opposition. Job done.
 
The bloke with the most amount of mongrel we have hasn't been mentioned. You people.... JED LAMB. You want players with a bit of s**t in them? Look no further. I reckon the guy is so used to being combative that he talks s**t about himself in his sleep.

But in any case, I find the whole topic to be lame. Everyone is different. Some players with the attitude of Lamb as described above are great for a team to have, but otherwise, the standard rules apply: play hard, play fair, and don't take s**t from the opposition. Job done.

Lamb couldn't punch a hole in a wet bag mate - I like his hassling though he is a hassler, but cant back it up with mongrel - no hurt in his hassling..pffft
 
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Lamb couldn't punch a hole in a wet bag mate - I like his hassling though he is a hassler, but cant back it up with mongrel - no hurt in his hassling..pffft
I know you're not being literal, but being able to punch has no relevance. The mongrel a footy team needs is totally different. You watch Lamb closely - he's the sort of player who follows through an extra 10% on every tackle, just because he wants to put a bit more hurt on and be the big dog. He's one of the first to get involved in argy and never takes a backward step. He's not going to run through anyone at his size but that's only one part of being hard at it. It's a mentality. And he has it.
 
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I dont know if you define it as mongrel, but i want to see the big blokes crash the pack hard so the third man dropping back thinks twice the next time. I want to see hard, but legal blocks/shepherds put on anyone tagging cripps/murphy/gibbs. We need to protect and support our Rolls Royces. I want to see vice like tackles, not airy fairy one armed piss poor attempts. And it needs to be across the whole squad, not just left to 1 or 2 "mongrels".
 
I don't think we really have to be pushing and sledging and all that goes along with that.
Just attack the ball with mongrel and that will take you further and for longer, than simply trying to intimidate opponents with 'hero' acts.

Play angry, but angry for the ball and for each other and the rest will largely take care of itself.
 

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