Bluemour Discussion Thread IV

[rp84]

If the price for either Kelly or Whitfield/Hopper/Smith etc is involving our 1st pick, and let's say it's #2 - I want Kelly.

Picks that high shouldnt be used in pu pu platter deals. I'm only trading that kind of pick for a bona fide star.

Depth = important. Absolute star power = also important. Hence why Nth could never bridge the gap during their prelim years.

Correct. Think Geelong would go anywhere with the substraction of Dangerfield and the addition of Dean Gore and Wayne Milera?

Now, Hopper and Smith are better than those two.
Do you think Danger is worth more than those 2?

Of course he bloody is.

Depth is clearly important, but you need players who are going to win games of football. Elite players win you games.

 

[Soapy V]

Correct. Think Geelong would go anywhere with the substraction of Dangerfield and the addition of Dean Gore and Wayne Milera?

Now, Hopper and Smith are better than those two.
Do you think Danger is worth more than those 2?

Of course he bloody is.

Depth is clearly important, but you need players who are going to win games of football. Elite players win you games.

If we got Kelly/Hopper for Pick 3 & Gibbs first round pick I would be happy. Hopefully SOS can then get some later picks in return plus an extra for Gibbs to bring in some more young talent. Still have Casboult compo pick, round 3 and 4 (Balic) and some rookies.

 

[Arr0w]

I think it will be both. If Kelly wants to come to us they will grab him but will still target others and good draft picks. SOS will not put all our eggs in one basket. The ability of our kids to step up is the key. I expect Charlie & SPS to be elite midfielders that will add to Cripps & Murphy. If that happens it makes a massive difference to our list

If SOS targets Kelly, it would make it difficult to target multiple quality kids early in the draft, hard to have it both ways

Have never stated that I don't want Kelly, just would not jeopardize multiple quality players. Many sides have targeted so called elite players during the draft, Treloar comes to mind, before the rest of the list makeup has been settled.

SOS is too pragmatic to make that mistake

 

[rp84]

Hasn't it been rumoured that SOS is keen on Whitfield? We don't have to get all 3 to improve of class and depth, 2 would suffice



Any of the above mentioned would be in our best midfielders for the next 10 years and that is the difference.

As I said, it is clear how impatient people are with this rebuild, by wanting Kelly, over multiple quality midfielders, I doubt SOS & Co won't be as impatient

I love how people use this throw-away bullshit line to falsely underline their point. Essentially most 'inside' info/ rumours around suggest we are heavily into Kelly.

Why is trading one top pick for one top player impatient? This rhetoric is bullshit.

IF someone suggests we send 3 first rounders, fair enough. But to suggest our 1st and change for Kelly is impatient, it is absolute crap.

Why are some people so certain that Hopper becomes an elite mid?

 

[Soapy V]

If SOS targets Kelly, it would make it difficult to target multiple quality kids early in the draft, hard to have it both ways

Have never stated that I don't want Kelly, just would not jeopardize multiple quality players. Many sides have targeted so called elite players during the draft, Treloar comes to mind, before the rest of the list makeup has been settled.

SOS is too pragmatic to make that mistake

I agree but I also believe SOS can get more young talent later in the draft. Even if we get Kelly it's not going to stop us bringing in 8-10 new players. SOS knows our list still needs lots of changes.

 

[rp84]

If we got Kelly/Hopper for Pick 3 & Gibbs first round pick I would be happy. Hopefully SOS can then get some later picks in return plus an extra for Gibbs to bring in some more young talent. Still have Casboult compo pick, round 3 and 4 (Balic) and some rookies.

Exactly. So many people with concrete thinking.

Plenty of ways to add young talent, and get someone elite to replace Gibbs. If we replace him with 20yos only, we are in for a tough 2018.

We need to do both, and chasing Kelly and other targets isnt mutually exclusive.

IF the price is right, my feeling is we will go for him. The key to the price being right is getting him to nominate us.

We certainly need to get other young talented players in too.

 

[Arr0w]

I love how people use this throw-away bullshit line to falsely underline their point. Essentially most 'inside' info/ rumours around suggest we are heavily into Kelly.

Why is trading one top pick for one top player impatient? This rhetoric is bullshit.

IF someone suggests we send 3 first rounders, fair enough. But to suggest our 1st and change for Kelly is impatient, it is absolute crap.

Why are some people so certain that Hopper becomes an elite mid?

Your response clearly shows you are impatient

So now it is bullshit that rumours we are interested in Whitfiled, Hopper & Balic, but the Kelly rumour should be viewed with a different setsquare?

1st and change you say? Tell me what this so called change will be and please don't be like the countless others that suggest it will be a Casboult compo pick, because that is bullshit ! But if you really think a player such as Kelly could be gained with a "1st and change" would you trade Charlie for the same value?

Start being realistic with these scenarios

 

[Beer n Skittles]

I doubt Whitfield and Hopper would be cheaper than Kelly

 

[rp84]

Your response clearly shows you are impatient

So now it is bullshit that rumours we are interested in Whitfiled, Hopper & Balic, but the Kelly rumour should be viewed with a different setsquare?

1st and change you say? Tell me what this so called change will be and please don't be like the countless others that suggest it will be a Casboult compo pick, because that is bullshit ! But if you really think a player such as Kelly could be gained with a "1st and change" would you trade Charlie for the same value?

Start being realistic with these scenarios

No, its underlining their point as fact by saying 'SOS wouldnt do this' crap that drives me mad. They're all rumours. I pointed that out. I never said one or the other are bullshit.

As for the value, a prominent 'in the know' poster on here has said he thinks it won't involve two first rounders. Again, rumour, but that may be what we are aiming for.

As for your final question, I would hate that. But if we aren't proactive or attractive enough to keep our young stars in contract, that could well happen.

 

[Arr0w]

No, its underlining their point as fact by saying 'SOS wouldnt do this' crap that drives me mad. They're all rumours. I pointed that out. I never said one or the other are bullshit.

As for the value, a prominent 'in the know' poster on here has said he thinks it won't involve two first rounders. Again, rumour, but that may be what we are aiming for.

As for your final question, I would hate that. But if we aren't proactive or attractive enough to keep our young stars in contract, that could well happen.

Interesting how you avoid simple questions, would you trade Kelly for Charlie, yes or no?

 

[rp84]

Interesting how you avoid simple questions, would you trade Kelly for Charlie, yes or no?

What? Where did you ask if I would trade Charlie for Kelly? You're talking shit.

 

[Jabba73]

Need elite, depth will come through churn over time.

Can't win the big dance with only foot soldiers.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Your response clearly shows you are impatient

So now it is bullshit that rumours we are interested in Whitfiled, Hopper & Balic, but the Kelly rumour should be viewed with a different setsquare?

1st and change you say? Tell me what this so called change will be and please don't be like the countless others that suggest it will be a Casboult compo pick, because that is bullshit ! But if you really think a player such as Kelly could be gained with a "1st and change" would you trade Charlie for the same value?

Start being realistic with these scenarios

That's the thing we don't know.
Say if it's pick 3 and 20 to get Kelly or pick 3 and 20 to get Whitfield and Hopper then I would be happy with either. It doesn't matter anyway because if Kelly leaves then there is no way in hell they let Whitfield walk

 

[Arr0w]

What? Where did you ask if I would trade Charlie for Kelly? You're talking shit.

Then you have blinkers on, in a previous post i asked if you would trade Charlie for a "1st and change "

But if you want to make this a personal attack, happy to entertain you

 

[Arr0w]

That's the thing we don't know.
Say if it's pick 3 and 20 to get Kelly or pick 3 and 20 to get Whitfield and Hopper then I would be happy with either. It doesn't matter anyway because if Kelly leaves then there is no way in hell they let Whitfield walk

How will we get a pick 20?

Agree on the 2nd statement, never suggested we would get both Kelly and Whitfield

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

How will we get a pick 20?

Agree on the 2nd statement, never suggested we would get both Kelly and Whitfield

I have no idea I'm just trying to come up with a value that a deal could get done with

 

[Monkey King]

... would you trade Kelly for Charlie, yes or no?

I tell you what, if Charlie was out of contract, declared he was moving to NSW and nominated GWS, I'd do that trade.

 

[rp84]

Then you have blinkers on, in a previous post i asked if you would trade Charlie for a "1st and change "

But if you want to make this a personal attack, happy to entertain you

In fact, I don't want to do that, and its hardly a personal attack. You've had a bit of a go back too.
I have 'liked' a lot of what you say, and agree with it in the past. I clearly don't agree with what I've stated today.




By the way, its clearly different question.

 

[rp84]

I tell you what, if Charlie was out of contract, declared he was moving to NSW and nominated GWS, I'd do that trade.

It wouldnt be the worst trade in the scenario.

 

[Soapy V]

Interesting how you avoid simple questions, would you trade Kelly for Charlie, yes or no?

Not a chance!!!!!

 

[Soapy V]

Exactly. So many people with concrete thinking.

Plenty of ways to add young talent, and get someone elite to replace Gibbs. If we replace him with 20yos only, we are in for a tough 2018.

We need to do both, and chasing Kelly and other targets isnt mutually exclusive.

IF the price is right, my feeling is we will go for him. The key to the price being right is getting him to nominate us.

We certainly need to get other young talented players in too.

Maybe people are still burnt by the Judd deal. The issue wasn't what we gave up for Judd it was what happened around his recruitment. Poor List Management, Stupid contracts and very poor drafting is what killed us.

Getting a big fish like Kelly shouldn't really restrict us. It should make us better. You can still build a list with later picks and smart recruiting. There was a stat the other day that the Swans entire defence is made up of rookies!!! It can be done

 

[Gingerbread man]

Your response clearly shows you are impatient

So now it is bullshit that rumours we are interested in Whitfiled, Hopper & Balic, but the Kelly rumour should be viewed with a different setsquare?

1st and change you say? Tell me what this so called change will be and please don't be like the countless others that suggest it will be a Casboult compo pick, because that is bullshit ! But if you really think a player such as Kelly could be gained with a "1st and change" would you trade Charlie for the same value?

Start being realistic with these scenarios

I would trade Weitering for kelly and hopper, No way would we trade Charlie

 

[CFC_#17]

Maybe people are still burnt by the Judd deal. The issue wasn't what we gave up for Judd it was what happened around his recruitment. Poor List Management, Stupid contracts and very poor drafting is what killed us.

Getting a big fish like Kelly shouldn't really restrict us. It should make us better. You can still build a list with later picks and smart recruiting. There was a stat the other day that the Swans entire defence is made up of rookies!!! It can be done

I 100% agree, we finished last 3 years in a row all we can show from the draft was our 3 first picks (Murphy, Gibbs Kreuzer). We used early picks on Ruckman 3 years in a row (Hampson pick 17 2006, Kreuzer pick 1 2007 and Traded Warnock for pick 24, 56 and 72).

 

[Arr0w]

In fact, I don't want to do that, and its hardly a personal attack. You've had a bit of a go back too.
I have 'liked' a lot of what you say, and agree with it in the past. I clearly don't agree with what I've stated today.




By the way, its clearly different question.

I have had a go at your post regarding Kelly vs multiple players, but not at you personally, but if that is how you want to justify your views, that is your prerogative, I will entertain that type of response in the future.

Despite what you or others think, I prefer the differing opinions, as it is healthy.

When we all get a new rumour, we debate it heavily with these differing views and opinions, it is interesting and exciting, especially the Kelly scenario. But when I see a rumour to suggest, Kelly is worth a 1st plus change (which doesn't exist, Casboult Compo, delusional) and everyone jumping on that bandwagon, it makes me laugh. Surely you, I and most of the people here can form our on opinion of what a player is worth on the open market, rather than running with the herd

If SOS logged on and suggested he was targeting Whitfield, Hopper, Smith & Kelly, I am sure we would all drool, but would you believe him if he said he could get the deal done, just a 1st and change?

Happy to move on

 

[Arr0w]

I tell you what, if Charlie was out of contract, declared he was moving to NSW and nominated GWS, I'd do that trade.

So you would rather trade a potential elite player, for a potential upgraded elite player. I really don't care what path we take to reach our destination, but if he did that, we would be waiting a long time to win a flag