Toby Greene boot to Luke Dahlhaus face.

[ashep]

This is a serious question. Why is the onus on Toby not to make contact with the head. If you bump someone or tackle them or even strike them, you're the one initiating contact and you have choices.

Did Greene initiate the contact? Did Dahlhaus have other choices?

Does Greene raising his leg mean that he's the one initiating contact or is Dahlhaus by running into it the one initiating it?

What other choices did Dahlhaus have other than running in the way he did?

It looked shithouse so expect a kneejerk reaction from head office who will announce it whilst wheeling out the soccer mums to justify it.

Could Dahl have pulled up earlier? Stringer was right behind Greene and could have laid the tackle or bump leaving Dahl free to keep running and tackle whoever it was that Greene was handballing to.

If someone's running past you and you hang out a stationary arm and collect them around the head, who's initiating the contact?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Wait let me get this straight, for every one saying he's just protecting space and he's allowed to do it. Forget that it's in the air and what not if I'm running with the ball and someone's running in to tackle me I'm allowed to kick my boot out studs up to stop them? Surely not?

I think if you jumped up and kicked someone in the face, it would be a tad different.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Well that's wrong. Dahlhaus was going to tackle because it wasn't a mark and Greene fended off with his foot

My bad.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Basically this.

It's not a defendable football action of any sort & anyone who thinks Greene didn't know exactly what he was doing is kidding themselves, the guy has superb agility & football nouse & decided to kick place his boot in someones face.

3 down to 2.

He wasn't looking directly at Dalhaus. Refer to the footage.

 

[Frank Bunn]

So your arguing that it should be a free kick against toby?

That already happened

You just argued that it shouldn't have been a free kick. Do you now agree that it was?

The MRP will look at whether it constitutes rough conduct.

 

[AcuteWhistle]

He wasn't looking directly at Dalhaus. Refer to the footage.

I know, he didnt need to, refer to my post.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Interesting one this.

Technically isnt against any particular rule depending on how a marking contest is termed.

Should and will be looked at but as i understand. Technically hasnt done anything against the rules

out of curiosity how do you categorise it as a marking contest? was the ball kicked to him?

 

[Clems Knee]

Interesting some people excusing him for simply creating separation.

If that's all he was doing, why did he use a completely different technique down the other end 2 minutes later?

Yeh, it's very clear his technique was to push off the opposition player so as to spin around in mid air and land and take off towards the goals. His leg movements and spin all point towards that.
It's not possible to start a spin in mid air without contact.

The problem is that he chose to do this with his foot against a person instead of a wall. It would be a bad look even if the boot studs hit Dalhaus in the chest. Instead they hit his face.

 

[Clems Knee]

He wasn't looking directly at Dalhaus. Refer to the footage.

So what? Do you think he was unaware that Dalhaus was there?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Clear thinking not your thing? Common on these forums. You have lots of company.

I'm sure that you're the type who, after being kicked in the face, says "Don't worry about it mate, it's nothing. Totally my fault, I apologise"

I never saw anyone get kicked in the face last night.

I had the same thing happen to me many moons ago, I definitely didn't like it but I didn't whinge about it or want to start a fight over it because it was just one of those infrequent incidences that can happen on a footy field.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Refer 15.4.3 (e)

Refer 15.4.3 preamble:

1. Permitted Contact
   
   Other than the Prohibited Contact identified under Law 15.4.5, a Player may make contact with another Player:
   
   
   
   So rule 15.4.5 still technically apply in marking contest.
   
   
   

 

[Big Wilbur]

It's a fascinating incident and one which I think will lead to an adjustment to the rules. Whilst it's not uncommon in a marking contest under the guise of "protecting yourself" you hardly ever see it when someone simply receiving a handball.....and TBH most people would struggle to understand why a player needs to do it. The last time I saw anything similar was in the grand final when Naismith jumped for the ball and actually received a free when JJ grabbed his foot. The difference was Naismith's boot was in JJ's chest rather than his head. Personally I think the AFL will outlaw the practice outside of a marking contest.

On the incident itself, I'm uncertain as to whether the MRP will take action but at worst they're unlikely to rule he deliberately kicked Dahlhaus in the face. More likely to be judged as careless. Personally I have no doubt he knew what he was doing. We're talking about a highly skilled player with great spacial awareness. He could have easily protected his space without kicking his leg as high as he did. I'm sure the AFL will be keen to limit the possibility of players being able to take out opponents "by accident". I'm not suggesting this was Greene's intention.......he just "plays on the edge".

 

[baldandbroke]

... In recent weeks we've seen blokes suspended for great tackles, players suspended for a push and one the victim of over acting. Greene is a goner!

Jesus, you Cat's supporters just can't stop playing that victim card can ya? Surprised you didn't manage to slip in how Sloane purposely broke Blicavs leg and got away with it

 

[AcuteWhistle]

Yeh, it's very clear his technique was to push off the opposition player so as to spin around in mid air and land and take off towards the goals. His leg movements and spin all point towards that.
It's not possible to start a spin in mid air without contact.

The problem is that he chose to do this with his foot against a person instead of a wall. It would be a bad look even if the boot studs hit Dalhaus in the chest. Instead they hit his face.

Well put.

Those arguing Greene's action is not an issue must also be supportive of all those legal 'fend offs by foot' we see in every game every week....

 

[hoianbulldog]

He never takes his eye off the ball, spins in mid air, and dishes off.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/to...t/news-story/96083488a0a53fa2b35ac5fa2534be0d

There is no way intent can be proven.

I can scratch my arse without looking at it. And there is definate intent.

His intention was to ward of Dalhaus, surely that isnt disputed? Why else was the leg thrown out?

I am not suggesting he intended to kick Dalhaus stops out in the face but that was the outcome.

Reckless at best.

 

[Big Wilbur]

You can't kick someone with the bottom of your boot.

You can't stomp someone without downward force.

Errr....martial arts?

 

[doggies ftw]

I think if you jumped up and kicked someone in the face, it would be a tad different.

Exactly which makes it worse. I'm saying even forgetting that he got him in the face surely it's not a legal move to throw your studs up in someone's chest to stop them tackling you. Which everyone seems to be harping on as being a legal part of the game?

 

[BLERN]

You just argued that it shouldn't have been a free kick. Do you now agree that it was?

The MRP will look at whether it constitutes rough conduct.

I never said it shouldnt have been a free. But i can see why what i said was taken that way due to a few things not said.

I believe the action of what toby did was allowed. Until he made high contact. At that point it is a free kick. But not a reportable offense.

I also agree the MRP will and should look at this. But i dont believe anything he did is a suspendable offense based on the mrp grading guidelines

out of curiosity how do you categorise it as a marking contest? was the ball kicked to him?

I have explained my thoughts on the difference between a marking contest and general play several times already

 

[Roos9699]

Are you happy for players to use the leg and boot to fend off players in general play?


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I don't see what Greene did as a fend off merely protecting space which players in marking contest do all the time putting their knee or leg up so essentially it happens already some one even posted footage of Daw using his knee to protect space.

 

[Snake_Baker]

So what? Do you think he was unaware that Dalhaus was there?

Of course he knew he was there, just the same as Majak knew Jetta was there.

Should knees and legs be outlawed to protect a player area? Should the game revert even further towards pogo-ing players that must brace themselves for impact and then get pinged when they are caught with the ball?

Common sense should see this let go as a freak incident, which it was.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

15.4.5 Prohibited Contact and Payment of Free Kick
A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player where they are satisfied that the Player has made Prohibited Contact with an opposition Player.
A Player makes Prohibited Contact with an opposition Player if the Player:
(a) makes contact or attempts to make contact with any part of their body with an opposition Player in a manner likely to cause injury;
(i) above the shoulders (including the top of the shoulders or bump to the head); or
(ii) below the knees.
(b) pushes an opposition Player in the back, unless such contact is incidental to a Marking contest and the Player is legitimately Marking or attempting to Mark the football;
(c) holds an opposition Player who is not in possession of the football;
(d) unduly pushes, bumps, blocks, holds an opposition Player or deliberately interferes with the arms of an opposition Player, who is in the act of Marking or attempting to Mark the football;
(e) pushes, bumps, holds or blocks an opposition Player when the football is further than 5 metres away from the opposition Player or is out of play;
(f) pushes, bumps, holds or blocks an opposition Player who is contesting a bounce or throw by a field Umpire or boundary throw in;
(g) charges an opposition Player;
(h) trips or attempts to trip an opposition Player, whether by the use of hand, arm, foot or leg;
(i) kicks or attempts to kick an opposition Player, unless contact is accidentally made whilst the Player is Kicking the football;
(j) strikes or attempts to strike an opposition Player, whether by hand, fist, arm, knee or head;
(k) holds or throws an opposition Player after that Player has disposed of the football;
(l) engaging in rough conduct against an opponent which in the circumstances is unreasonable;
(m) kicking or attempting to Kick the football in a manner likely to cause injury; or
(n) bumps or makes forceful contact to an opponent from front-on when that Player has their head down over the football.
NOTE:
– a Player can bump an opponent’s body from side-on but any contact forward of side-on will be deemed to be front-on;
– a Player with their head down in anticipation of winning possession of the football or after contesting the football will be deemed to have their head down over the football for the purposes of this law.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Carry on with the rest of the rule.

Doesn't have too preamble states that "other than prohibited contact identified under law 15.4.5, a player may make cotact....."

So the prohibited contact rules still apply.

 

[Big Wilbur]

You're missing an important piece of the puzzle.

Did he know what Dalhaus was doing?

Of course not.....he was simply fending off clear air.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Now the decision is whether it was serious enough to get a suspension. Hit in the face and drew blood. I think that gets a week. Normally with a discount it would be a fine, but because of his poor record ....

 

[PoopingHindi]

he stuck his leg out to protect the space, it happens all the time.
if you choose to run into it then good on you for having the courage.