Has don pyke got a few tricks inthe bag for finals.

[Samcro24]

The way the goals can dry up concerns me. Took 7 minutes and a goal after the siren to tie vs Collingwood. Last goal at the 16 minute mark vs Sydney. Didn't score in the last vs geelong.

We have enough play, get it forward, just can't score. Shades of 05/06 when the forwards were s**t.

 

[Houston]

Doesn't strike me as a coach that pulls a master-stroke on gameday. He'd prefer to back in his players and their ability to execute the system.

 

[feenix67]

Agreed, Jenkins wanted the glory.

Very disappointing from him.

I think Jenkins has been told to assert himself and part of the result is what we saw. Because it's not natural for him, he gets tunnel vision at times in those circumstances. Something he needs to work on because it did cost us a couple.

On the "tricks" thing, I don't think he did everything he could have to win the game Friday night. We did fix the Buddy match up and we did alter our centre positioning, but not much else. I don't think there's any tricks, but I do think there's more tweaks he has that he can make, which is more his style. Time will tell I guess.

 

[Thetrader15]

Doesn't strike me as a coach that pulls a master-stroke on gameday. He'd prefer to back in his players and their ability to execute the system.

Maybe he has been foxing?

 

[Houston]

Maybe he has been foxing?

That would be the king of all foxes.

 

[Vhaluus]

Maybe he has been foxing?

He sure out foxed Sydney last year. Longest con ever eh?

 

[GreyCrow]

I think Jenkins has been told to assert himself and part of the result is what we saw. Because it's not natural for him, he gets tunnel vision at times in those circumstances. Something he needs to work on because it did cost us a couple.

On the "tricks" thing, I don't think he did everything he could have to win the game Friday night. We did fix the Buddy match up and we did alter our centre positioning, but not much else. I don't think there's any tricks, but I do think there's more tweaks he has that he can make, which is more his style. Time will tell I guess.

I listened to yesterdays catch up of Triple Ms Melbourne show before the footy. Wayne Carey discussed what he saw as the reason for Hawthorn beating Sydney. Have to say I think he has come close to an answer.

What Hawthorn do is chip pass chip pass 15-20m trying to draw the extra Sydney loose man to the play instead of bombing it in long. Similar in how we finally beat Geelong this year. Then Hawthorn look for the loose small forward ie Puopolo and Rioli etc. Seemed sound analysis

 

[John Who]

Pyke has built the best team, the best game plan, with the worst composure.

Pulling a rabbit out of the hat would be ensuring that third item gets sorted for all three games in September as I think he has the other teams tactically stumped.

No other side takes the game on more than us but when we clanger, we clanger well with missed set shots and hitting opposition lace out often at critical moments.

This is more a blame on the players rather than on Pyke himself, regarding composures and clangers. Though we are relatively a young side and are relatively inexperienced in Finals-like pressure, so in a way, with the Swans Finals-like pressure, hopefully this was a great dress rehearsal for our group leading to the major rounds.

 

[Glenno23]

Tricks is not the right word

He can make moves though. And that's what you want

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Tricks is not the right word

He can make moves though. And that's what you want

Yes, he adjusts things when they don't work during the game.

Just wish we could stop teams jumping us early.

 

[Jack is Back]

He sure out foxed Sydney last year. Longest con ever eh?

Not true.
I have it on good authority that THE MAESTRO will be bringing in an extra assistant coach for the finals. N.C will be pulling out all the tricks that he kept in the bag for the 2005 and 2006 Grand Finals.

 

[Pugsley]

Not true.
I have it on good authority that THE MAESTRO will be bringing in an extra assistant coach for the finals. N.C will be pulling out all the tricks that he kept in the bag for the 2005 and 2006 Grand Finals.

#bringoutthebikesforNeil

 

[GreyCrow]

#bringoutthebikesforNeil

#NoHalfTimeDrugs

 

[kulak]

Don is more interested in habits than tricks. Unlikely we see much different in finals.

There are a lot of things I love about how he has us playing. I think my favourite is that it is clear the players further up the ground know what is going to happen in 5 seconds time.

Lever kicks from the goalsquare to a running Brown.

Brown immediately kicks to the wing where Lynch is leading towards him (Cameron's lead into the square is not rewarded but it drew a defender, creating space)

Lynch handballs to Sloane cruising past who kicks to 35m out where Betts is first back into our 50.

Betts runs in for an "easy" goal

Read what is happening up the ground, how are the defence playing you, react. Habits.

Trying a "trick" like Lever to the forward line or whatever is unlikely, he wouldn't have programmed the habits for that role

 

[kulak]

That said, there is one trick I would like to see us consider, which is a way of responding to getting beaten up in the middle

There are a few times where the opposition gets the upper hand and takes over the contest for 15 mins. For some reason we just become non-competitive for some time.

The 4-5 goals the opposition kick in this time can be the difference in the match. This happened vs Sydney last week, in last year's final, and plenty of other times.

I'd like to see a circuit-breaker we can try.

I'm thinking something like putting Tex in the centre square every now and then. He can bowl a few people over, is pretty good below his knees, uses well in congestion...lack of mobility is managed by the players outside the square being on the defensive side and rushing in.

If not that, then...something. I'm worried we will lose a key final due to a 15 minute mental disintegration.

 

[Geoffa32]

That said, there is one trick I would like to see us consider, which is a way of responding to getting beaten up in the middle

There are a few times where the opposition gets the upper hand and takes over the contest for 15 mins. For some reason we just become non-competitive for some time.

The 4-5 goals the opposition kick in this time can be the difference in the match. This happened vs Sydney last week, in last year's final, and plenty of other times.

I'd like to see a circuit-breaker we can try.

I'm thinking something like putting Tex in the centre square every now and then. He can bowl a few people over, is pretty good below his knees, uses well in congestion...lack of mobility is managed by the players outside the square being on the defensive side and rushing in.

If not that, then...something. I'm worried we will lose a key final due to a 15 minute mental disintegration.

Is there any corration between a run of opposition clean centre clearances and them being stopped when Thor comes off the bench.

From memory there were no easy clearances for the Swans when he was in the middle.

He plays that role you suggest Tex could play, ie physically disrupt their mids.

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[JPetro83]

He comes from the school of Neil Craig so no, I doubt it!

 

[Mismatched]

I think Pyke has improved tactically, but if there's one thing I want to see from him, it's that he doesn't have a best 22 set in stone that he refuses to change unless forced to by injury, regardless of form.

Obviously we don't need to make wholesale changes, but we can't keep carrying someone like Cameron just because of his name.

If someone like Gallucci, Seedsman, Menzel or possibly Milera has a great game, then they need to come in for him, even if they aren't necessarily better than Cameron long term.

I agree to an extent, however it's still important to have a settled best 22, with a good understanding of who is best 22 heading into finals. I do like that we're not reactionary in our selections, under Sanderson we had no idea what our best 22 looked like, including whether we played best with 2, 3 or 4 tall forwards.

If you look at the best sides over the past 10-15 years who have had sustained success, they've always been very settled sides. This ensures that the playing group as a whole get used to playing together and are also not afraid to take risks and play for the team, as they're not constantly worried that their about to be dropped.

I agree though that Cameron needs a spell, has had 1 good game since early in the season, he's struggling to hit 10 touches and his kicking is woeful. He's better than this and that's where a spell in the 2's can benefit. It also allows us to explore other options.

 

[RippaRiley43]

I agree to an extent, however it's still important to have a settled best 22, with a good understanding of who is best 22 heading into finals. I do like that we're not reactionary in our selections, under Sanderson we had no idea what our best 22 looked like, including whether we played best with 2, 3 or 4 tall forwards.

If you look at the best sides over the past 10-15 years who have had sustained success, they've always been very settled sides. This ensures that the playing group as a whole get used to playing together and are also not afraid to take risks and play for the team, as they're not constantly worried that their about to be dropped.

I agree though that Cameron needs a spell, has had 1 good game since early in the season, he's struggling to hit 10 touches and his kicking is woeful. He's better than this and that's where a spell in the 2's can benefit. It also allows us to explore other options.

I know, and as I said, I'm not advocating sweeping changes, but I feel Pyke and the selection panel have made some poor decisions over the last couple of years because he has this completely fixed best 22 in his mind that cannot be deviated from for any reason other than debilitating injury.

For instance, we preferred an injured and out of form Brown on name over someone like Kelly in last year's finals, even though Kelly has done a fine job overall this year. In the games Brown missed, we played Henderson who we went on to delist instead of seeing what Kelly had to offer. Papley ends up kicking a bag and we're booted out of the finals.

Every little thing we can do to make our chances better in September should be considered.

Beveridge dropped Stringer last year because he was out of form. Provided there is a replacement performing very well in the SANFL earning a spot, I don't think it would greatly hurt our side if we did something similar with a best 22 player hopelessly out of form every now and again (and it doesn't have to be every week), particularly if the dropped player isn't someone irreplaceable like Sloane or Talia.

It can also be beneficial for that player to have a spell, work on some aspects of their game and get some confidence back. Obviously we get to see if the next man up can force the selectors' hands and be called upon if needed later on, and it gives the reserves players more confidence that they are being rewarded for their efforts.

I feel like this game could be a great opportunity to get one last look at some possible names on the outer before finals. With top 2 secured, we should see if someone on the fringe like Menzel/Seed, who have been in good form in the SANFL, can provide more than someone horribly out of form like Cameron's current output.

If Cameron responds well and/or Menzel stinks it up, then just bring Charlie back and no great harm has been done, but the payoff could be significant.

 

[marty36]

Pyke has one trick up his sleeve, we lost to Sydney who could be a contender, we were beaten by Buddy, we have one player in teh twos capable of going with him, simple bring in harto, he matches up well on GWS, Sydney, He held Dusty to one goal last tiime we played them, its a no brainer

 

[DD#23]

Is there any corration between a run of opposition clean centre clearances and them being stopped when Thor comes off the bench.

From memory there were no easy clearances for the Swans when he was in the middle.

He plays that role you suggest Tex could play, ie physically disrupt their mids.

there's no reasonable justification for him still spending the first 5 minutes of every quarter on the bench, least of all to give Douglas first preference at the opening bounce.

 

[DD#23]

For instance, we preferred an injured and out of form Brown on name over someone like Kelly in last year's finals, even though Kelly has done a fine job overall this year. In the games Brown missed, we played Henderson who we went on to delist instead of seeing what Kelly had to offer. Papley ends up kicking a bag and we're booted out of the finals.

this was an absolute shocker and so typically us to trust someone earmarked for delisting ahead of a young kid.

 

[Geoffa32]

there's no reasonable justification for him still spending the first 5 minutes of every quarter on the bench, least of all to give Douglas first preference at the opening bounce.

Yeah I would have him at every first bounce of the game.

Sauce, Crouch boys and Thor would be my starting four. With Sloaney running in from the wing.

Be aggressive from the start.

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[Paladin]

I didn't see Greenwood in the centre much v Sydney. Saving him for next time?

 

[CrowBloke]

No. This was a theory that was thrown up when we kept getting destroyed by Geelong, and after losing three times in a row to the same opposition tactics, was ultimately proven false.

followed by

And yet this year we beat Geelong in the second game. After changing a few things.

Spot on.