Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[zeeCFC]

*Mod Notice:-

Nice new shiny thread as the previous thread reached the 10K post limit.


Link to the previous thread - 2017 List Management Discussion Part 2:-

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2017-list-management-discussion-part-ii.1169652/



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to give the trade period where don't land Kelly, lose Gibbs and keep pick 3 a hypothetical go:

Gibbs to Adelaide for pick 10 (from Dees for Lever)

Boekhorst to Fremantle for pick 40, on trade that and our 2018 2nd for Darcy Lang and pick 34.

Pick 10, 38 for Dev Smith and Kennedy (values them pick 19 & 20)

Go into the draft with picks 3, 34, 56 and 75 which we'll probably use on Penrith.

Lose: Boekhorst, Gibbs, 2018 2nd
Gain: Lang, Smith, Kennedy, 34

Plowman, Jones, Weitering
Docherty, Marchbank, Simpson
Smith, Murphy, Petrevski-Seton
Lang, Curnow, Pickett
Casboult, McKay, Silvagni
Kreuzer, Cripps, Curnow
Kennedy, Cuningham, Wright, Byrne

Fisher, Williamson, Macreadie, ASOS, Phillips and pick 3 could all come in and we'd not lose much.

Lang and Smith improve our scoring while hopefully Cripps and Murph get better support with another year into Cuningham and SPS. Should Gibbs go, I wouldn't rule out Bolts making Charlie into a midfielder.

 

[ray8182]

Regarding geelongs darcy lang. Isn't he in his 4th year at Geelong.
He hasn't seemed to be a regular, has he been injured a lot?

Asking because a small to medium sized player needs to be a regular firsts player in there fourth year.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Im really hoping we keep pick 3 and not give it to GWS for a package of players.
Kelly is the only player id part with 3 for.

Still hopeful Kennedy nominates us and we can grab him with a lower pick or 2.

 

[Funk]

Cmon mate, the players care first and foremost and the fans, sponsors also. If we finish bottom 2 again next year then morale drops, confidence in the club and coaches drop, pressure from outside builds. Good players will get tempted to leave.
I know we have to hit the draft but we need to find a way to show that we are slowly climbing the ladder. It would be a nightmare if we failed to win more than 7 games next year.

Understand your point.

I just don't want us to get sucked into "doing a North Melbourne" where we have a team that is top 8 for numerous years but realistically speaking was never going to win a flag.

We need to keep our eye on the big prize - if it takes us a little longer to get there that's fine by me.

 

[Funk]

Regarding geelongs darcy lang. Isn't he in his 4th year at Geelong.
He hasn't seemed to be a regular, has he been injured a lot?

Asking because a small to medium sized player needs to be a regular firsts player in there fourth year.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Geelong have a heap of his type.

Cockatoo, Parfitt, Motlop, Murdoch, Menzel and McCarthy.

Also they have added Menengola and S Selwood to MID rotations.

He's been squeezed out.

Ironically it appeared SOS saw what was going to happen to him - but Lang himself didn't.

 

[HBF]

I'll tell you that if we haven't played finals before 2021 Bolton and SOS will be gone

2020 will be the year we next play finals.

 

[Soapy V]

I agree with pushing for finals by 19 and challenging in 20 but i still don't see how we are adding 8-12 young talented players when we have 2 picks inside 40 in a weak draft. Gibbs might go which will add a pick maybe another pick/player but thats 4 players, not to mention that not every draft pick is a success.

SOS had a lot of picks at the Giants and he chose poorly on a lot of occasions, it seems people think that we are just going to pick a gem every time.

Feels like dejavu. I should just copy and paste.

There are so many ways we can bring in multiple players. The last 2 years we have brought in 28 new players. The club keeps saying we are in a rebuild and there is a lot more to do, we need more young talent etc etc. For all the talk I am just repeating what the club's plans are. It's just how that is up for discussion

We have already dlisted/retired SIX players and there are another 8 or so without contracts and have been told they may be offered one year deal depending upon what happens during trade period. Also, as Barass stated there is a real chance Palmer and/or Smedts may have their contracts paid out. So that is 16 possibles.

Of course not every player makes it. If they did we could do a rebuild in 2 years. Having said that our strike rate under SOS & Bolts looks very good.

This is a 66 game rebuild. The club will not steer away from it. As I have also said I don't believe this is a "weak draft". It's not a superdraft either but there will be players SOS will target for late or rookie picks. No doubt he will also bring in some mature types (like ASOS) to fill some roles as rookies.

My early guess is

Kennedy Smith & Salary Cap dump for second round 2018
Lang for very late pick (135?) as Cats will need Salary Cap space for Ablett maybe Stringer
Balic for Boekhurst
Lots of Steak Knives and some picks traded for muliple picks
Gibbs is still 50/50 for me but if he goes we will get multiple picks/players in return

Plus SOS will do things we haven't even discussed.

I have no doubt a minimum of 10 list changes this year and more again in 2018. Happy ot revisit AFTER the trade period.

 

[Soapy V]

If we don't make finals before 2021 the rebuild is a failure.

Crap. Sorry but that really annoys me. Take the negative stuff an go away. So many variables. So much good is happening at this club and I couldn't be happier. Give them a realistic chance before spouting this BS

 

[Prem17]

He can't get a game at the saints?

Billings and Gresham are higher up the priority list at Seaford.
I think I read somewhere that he kicked 6 goals from 12 games this year which is a bit of a worry.
Not sure what his workrate is like but if he tackles and does the team things he could be worth a look?
Hard to imagine what we would trade for him though. We have been linked to nearly as many as Norf! LOL

 

[Soapy V]

Cmon mate, the players care first and foremost and the fans, sponsors also. If we finish bottom 2 again next year then morale drops, confidence in the club and coaches drop, pressure from outside builds. Good players will get tempted to leave.
I know we have to hit the draft but we need to find a way to show that we are slowly climbing the ladder. It would be a nightmare if we failed to win more than 7 games next year.

How did Richmond finish off last year?

Improvement isn't just about wins. Internally the group see what's happening and know it will take time.

 

[PoultryinMotion]

People really underestimate what we have coming through. Charlie Cuningham SPS & Fisher will be very very good and will improve a lot in 2018. Still have Murphy who will be better with more help especially inside. Cripps & Curnow will be back and fit. Pickett with another pre season could easily play off a wing. Polson is very talented and just needs a good pre season. Kerridge a handy back up

We then get Pick 3, Pick 9 plus (if Gibbs goes) and possibly Kennedy Smith & Balic. Future looks bright IMO

Where do you see Polson cutting his teeth Soapy?

 

[Prem17]

Anyone know of any 'Matty Wright types' available this year? Not necessarily a small forward, but a player on the cusp of a top 8 team's first 22, a quiet achiever who just needs opportunity, who won't cost much...

Tom Lamb would be one that I would have a look at. Went in the 2nd round in his draft year from memory, was in the WCE side early but injuries then derailed him. Has played as a forward this year but can be used as a utility. Victorian.
http://www.wafl.com.au/players/view/5984

Fraser McInnes - I doubt we would be interested because we have a few talls but he has been in the system a few years now. Has been behind Natanui, Vardy, Petrie, Lycett, etc. I've only seen him play live once - a GF for East Perth a few years ago in the wet. Took some strong grabs but set shots were nearly as bad as Casboult! Victorian.
http://www.wafl.com.au/players/view/4040

Michael Apeness - had a shocking run of injuries but is still only 22. Big unit at 200cms/105kgs. Victorian.
http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/player-profile/michael-apeness

Then there are the likes of Balic, etc.
Not interested in Honeychurch because we need some bigger frames in the middle.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Crap. Sorry but that really annoys me. Take the negative stuff an go away. So many variables. So much good is happening at this club and I couldn't be happier. Give them a realistic chance before spouting this BS

Six years is enough time to rebuild a list and make finals.

 

[PoultryinMotion]

He isn't injured physically so he clearly has something mental blocking his performance, call a spade a spade don't cover it in sugar and call it strawberry jam.

Mental doesn't mean someone has depression or anxiety, it can be as simple as 2nd guessing your decisions where otherwise you wouldn't have, I never stated he has real mental health issues just issues mentally effecting his performance.

Firstly, he has had injuries stifling his season which would cause some frustration. Secondly, you did state "mental health issues". Happy to leave it there as I really only intended to point out that mental health is often being used as a cop out in my opinion which doesn't help the serious plight of the genuine cohort or even those who often simply need to grow a set.

 

[thylacine60]

"cohort" is my new fave word

 

[The Bighouse]

Tom Lamb would be one that I would have a look at. Went in the 2nd round in his draft year from memory, was in the WCE side early but injuries then derailed him. Has played as a forward this year but can be used as a utility. Victorian.
http://www.wafl.com.au/players/view/5984

Fraser McInnes - I doubt we would be interested because we have a few talls but he has been in the system a few years now. Has been behind Natanui, Vardy, Petrie, Lycett, etc. I've only seen him play live once - a GF for East Perth a few years ago in the wet. Took some strong grabs but set shots were nearly as bad as Casboult! Victorian.
http://www.wafl.com.au/players/view/4040

Michael Apeness - had a shocking run of injuries but is still only 22. Big unit at 200cms/105kgs. Victorian.
http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/player-profile/michael-apeness

Then there are the likes of Balic, etc.
Not interested in Honeychurch because we need some bigger frames in the middle.

Isn't Fraser McInnes a Perth boy (Perth FC IIRC, nephew of Rob Wiley)? Did look promising at the start.

Tom Lamb only signed up for 1yr I think and hasn't had a look in since his 1st year. Wing / HFF, if the attitude has improved (digs at draft time) would be a great interchange with Charlie if his football can translate to AFL.

 

[AB_Blue]

Tom Lamb fell down the draft order in his year because of ill discipline. IIRC got expelled from school as well.

We had 2 chances to draft him but took Boek and DVR

If he was a DFA or late trade of picks i would give him a shot....cheaper than Stringer and is a big bodied mid

Specifically remember Brad Johnston was a huge wrap for him for the time he worked with him at the AIS

 

[thylacine60]

two lambs seems a bit of a gambol for mine

 

[ODNBlue]

Someone's a bit frisky this morning...

 

[My name geoff]

Crap. Sorry but that really annoys me. Take the negative stuff an go away. So many variables. So much good is happening at this club and I couldn't be happier. Give them a realistic chance before spouting this BS

I'm not getting why youre upset with that comment. I'm sure everyone at the club will say the same thing. 7 years with no finals will be a failure. Not saying we can't recover from that failure and everything will be rosey, but there are measures of success associated with a rebuild, and not reaching finals after 7 years of rebuilding will be deemed a resounding failure

 

[pumped]

Has anyone mentioned Nick Holman as worthy of redrafting? Felt he was unlucky to be delisted and in the 2 years since has been in consistently good form.

 

[DangerousD]

How did Richmond finish off last year?

Improvement isn't just about wins. Internally the group see what's happening and know it will take time.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the comment stating you don't care about ladder position in 2018 and 2019.
If the Tigers bombed this year then Hardwick would of gone due to pressure and players imo would have lost confidence in him.

I know we improved this year and I think the club does too but winning more games next year and the year after is very important.

 

[The Bighouse]

Re: Tom Lamb with an earlier mention of concerns on the ability to build a tank (thought that was one of his strengths).
Emergency listing.
19WAFLPlayed on the wing and amassed 14 disposals and three tackles. -
20Knee.
21WAFLMissed a few targets by foot, but got a lot of the ball off a wing. Is this his future role?-
22Senior emergency.
23WAFLGot a bit of the ball up the ground. Has shown some versatility in recent outings.

 

[thylacine60]

Has anyone mentioned Nick Holman as worthy of redrafting? Felt he was unlucky to be delisted and in the 2 years since has been in consistently good form.

I loved him.

 

[Zlatan]

Has anyone mentioned Nick Holman as worthy of redrafting? Felt he was unlucky to be delisted and in the 2 years since has been in consistently good form.

Same as Cachia.