Why don't we play well in finals?

[iameviljez]

Straight into it:

1. Limited list depth
This has been an issue for a while, but especially over the last two years. None of Sydney, Adelaide or Richmond would have space for Murdoch, Zuthrie, Parsons or be forced to play Harry at CHF. Arguably, Blicavs, Bews, Parfitt and Kolodjashnij would also find it hard to break into those lineups.

This was also a big problem in 2013 - where we were great for depth in every position bar tall forwards and ruckmen. Guess who went down?

2. Kardinia advantage a big H&A boost
Whether it's the travel factor or the weird shape of the ground, we do play KP a lot better than the G. I think we hold our defensive shape a lot better at home, simply because the ground is so skinny.

3. Overachievement in H&A
Basically put, our stars have dragged us across the line in a lot of H&A games, often against ordinary sides. Across 2014 and 15, I remember than we went 10-0 in games decided by less than 2 goals. We went something like 5-1-0 in similar games this year. We don't get away with that in finals.

4. A few Barry Crockers
Sydney last year, Freo in 2012, Richmond this year.

5. Smaller mids not great in finals footy
A number of our players are better either one-on-one or in space. Motlop is the obvious candidate, but Menegola has also turned in some sub-par finals games compared to H&A output.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Youre post is way off the Mark.
You should of titled it "Why don't we win finals" not "why don't we play well in finals" if you're going to use all those excuses.
Why don't we play well in finals?

1.Cause we come out flat and rusty at the start of all of them.
Coach thinks it's not a problem cause we beat Hawthorn last year.
2. Poor selection in nearly every final since 2013.
3. We play a style of zone off footy that doesn't always translate well to the MCG.
4.The same exact players not only have shockers but completely go missing.
5. Coaches and players unable to address all of above issues.

 

[you pick one]

Thread should go viral if we get bundled out of the finals Friday night,especially if we don't firer a shot.

 

[iameviljez]

Youre post is way off the Mark.
You should of titled it "Why don't we win finals" not "why don't we play well in finals" if you're going to use all those excuses.
Why don't we play well in finals?

Port Adelaide in 2013 and Hawthorn last year, for example - we won, but we didn't play well.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Port Adelaide in 2013 and Hawthorn last year, for example - we won, but we didn't play well.

Yeah but blaming list depth, overachieving in H&A etc are good reasons for not winning all finals or the flag.
But can't be used as reasons for the way in which we keep losing in the same manner.
It's coaching, selection, culture and mindset for mine.

 

[cynical]

1. Most of our players lack skills and footy smarts

When players are under more pressure than normal those who lack skills tend to turn it over or end up playing it safe (handballing backwards). They put the next link in the chain under more pressure resulting in clangers/turnovers and very few scoring opportunities.

2. Lack of impact players (max rooke types). With Cocky and McCarthy always being injured we dont have their hardness/tackling pressure. Most of our team is very vanilla.

3. This is similar to my first point but we have too many ball winners and not enough class. Duncan is our class player, Guthrie and Motlop have both gone backwards. Thurlow isnt even getting games.

4. Poor structures and generally too tall. Backline has no run and carry. Kolo playing 4th defender/wing. Blicavs playing as a mid/ruck.

5. Too many spoilt players. Some guys can turn up and put in putrid performances for weeks on end and not get dropped.

6. Playing to win games and not to develop a side that can win a flag. I've said it many times Chris Scott just picks the best 22 players regardless of structure. Dropping a senior player is going to weaken the side in the short term but in the long term its normally a good thing to do.

 

[Cat Maniac]

Chris Scott is the reason, the bloke can't coach a horse to water.

Bomber Thompson didn't have a problem whatsoever in coaching Geelong to September success.

I was shocked that Scott got the coaching gig over Hinkley and Sanderson after Thompson's departure in 2010. Scott served just a two year apprenticeship as a Fremantle Assistant coach. To give a bloke that's only been in the coaching system for a mere 2 years, is outrageous!

I'm sorry to all of Scotty's fans, but I want him gone!

 

[Larry Donohue]

Not enough mixing it up in my books.
Play danger forward against sydney and leave menz and motters in scoring pozzies. Play hawk up the ground.
Let buzz smash the packs
Allow menegola duncan and the selwoods run the midfield
Maybe add bews to the mids to stop a key mid and gain possessions off him and straighten us up into forward 50.
Play ruggles as back pocket again to allow this. Gives us more mongrel
Play mack and tuohy off the wing as defensive goal scorers/ assisters.
Rotate lonners taylor henderson forward.
Make us less predictable and more attacking

 

[God Mode]

All valid points, there needs to be a review in the off season, nothing short of the review we had at the end of 06 or Richmond's review last year. Our poor finals performances cannot be tolerated any longer if the club's culture is to remain strong.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Chris Scott is the reason, the bloke can't coach a horse to water.

Bomber Thompson didn't have a problem whatsoever in coaching Geelong to September success.

I was shocked that Scott got the coaching gig over Hinkley and Sanderson after Thompson's departure in 2010. Scott served just a two year apprenticeship as a Fremantle Assistant coach. To give a bloke that's only been in the coaching system for a mere 2 years, is outrageous!

I'm sorry to all of Scotty's fans, but I want him gone!

He got the job because he was such an excellent communicator. Freo players still talk about how good he was at it now.
But then 5 years down the track we hear how he won't talk to young players, won't explain to players why they've been dropped and the club having to hire Lloyd to do it for him. 'Tis strange.
I guess this style worked for Leigh Matthews so it's hard to criticise. But it's weird to not play to your strengths.

 

[iameviljez]

3. This is similar to my first point but we have too many ball winners and not enough class. Duncan is our class player, Guthrie and Motlop have both gone backwards. Thurlow isnt even getting games.

Totally agree with this. Our class players are too one-dimensional. Generally either our midfield are good ball-winners, or good ball-users - but rarely both (with the three obvious exceptions).

 

[Cat_Mancini]

He got a little annoyed when he was questioned about his poor record of late in finals. He reverted to the fact that the teams have been vastly different over time. He did not however acknowledge the one one common denominator over this period. He has been the senior coach of all these teams !! He has to take responsibility for that. Credit where it is due he did a great job in 2011 and rejuvenated the champs but he has got to a point where he has built this team and now it falls on him. Clearly fri night we are up against it and this will further condemn his record. He has largely escaped criticism due to his unparalleled h&a record and great media performances. I think the qf has put him in the spotlight and more pressure will mount unless finals are won. That is what it is all about after all

 

[Willo_]

We just don't handle high pressured contested footy well, we have too many that either go missing completely... or panic and cough the ball up wherever they get it.

 

[Jeff76]

Mentally weak

 

[Goggin Our Best]

It could be Geel - just overachieve in home away - and then found wanting in finals

Alot were calling Geel pretenders through out the year - they might be right

Along time ago - but very similar to Geelong

Nth Melb - 74 to 78 played in 5 GFs in a row - won 2 flags - then 79 lost PF 80 lost Elim final 82 won Elim final and lost 1st Semi 83 - finished on top of the ladder - and went out in straight sets - losing 2nd semi and smashed in prelim . So all up 6 finals - for one paltry win on the back/tail end of their golden era

They did exactly the same thing as Geel - they hung around - kept making the finals - a few ageing stars were still playing - however their team wasnt seriously rated - and eliminated consistently and quickly in finals

 

[winty]

Too many players willing to leave too much of the work to too few.

 

[iameviljez]

Yeah but blaming list depth, overachieving in H&A etc are good reasons for not winning all finals or the flag.
But can't be used as reasons for the way in which we keep losing in the same manner.
It's coaching, selection, culture and mindset for mine.

I think list depth is a big part of it, though - when you're in a final, against a good side, on a big stage, suddenly those weak links get ruthlessly exploited. This is especially true in manic-pressure games.

 

[kingcod]

We just don't handle high pressured contested footy well, we have too many that either go missing completely... or panic and cough the ball up wherever they get it.

Spot on. This for me is the root cause of our finals performances as it makes it impossible to effectively attack and defend with any system and confidence. Apart from the captain I don't see any player on the list who looks like they enjoy the added physicality that comes in finals.

 

[The rabbi]

Too many players willing to leave too much of the work to too few.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Choco Williams was talking about Richmond letting their players play with a bit more freedom this year and not being as focused on defense and structures actually encourages players natural competitive instincts to kick in. May be less tackles but they are harder tackles, and harder at the man as their competitive instincts an adrenaline are kicking in from taking the game on and trying to win.
Was interesting.

 

[The rabbi]

Choco Williams was talking about Richmond letting their players play with a bit more freedom this year and not being as focused on defense and structures actually encourages players natural competitive instincts to kick in. May be less tackles but they are harder tackles, and harder at the man as their competitive instincts an adrenaline are kicking in from taking the game on and trying to win.
Was interesting.

I noticed when we played the Swans that when the Swans get the ball they play on straight away and then they look for options further down the field. They do not wait for someone to lead. They just run off with the ball and then select the best option of the players who are moving.

Our current game looks far too stagnant to me. They do not play like the old Cats of '07 to 11 (but then again they are not the Cats of that time). But to my way of thinking they do not make it easy to hit the scoreboard as they just move the ball too slowly. That was a problem of the 2006 season.

 

[Scottland2007]

Spot on. This for me is the root cause of our finals performances as it makes it impossible to effectively attack and defend with any system and confidence. Apart from the captain I don't see any player on the list who looks like they enjoy the added physicality that comes in finals.

Cocky, that's all.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

The pressure metre goes up x100 come finals compared to the H&A season, and most of our players can't handle it, just simply not up to it, and it's a massive problem for this club now as we are gaining a reputation of being soft and easy beats in finals.

 

[Larry Donohue]

H

We just don't handle high pressured contested footy well, we have too many that either go missing completely... or panic and cough the ball up wherever they get it.

Hasnt helped missing cocky and mccarthy for most of the season. Bews danger selwood selwood hawkins duncan have been good in the contest. Guthrie has picked up the last part of the season. Why ruggles ignored when he has some mongrel annoys me.
Buzza alright in the contest.
Murdoch has improved in the contest too.
We have way too many underweight players this season.
Simpson zuthers motters lang mackie blicavs
Cant sustain being tossed around at finals time.
The leaders really need to stand up this week and set the standard.
Time to leave parsons zuthrie and blitz out of the team and bring in buzza menzel and ruggles. If not ruggles then thurlow.
Make bews play the guthrie role of defending a mid and playing off him.
Bring in some bodies and some mongrel.
Ruggles hendo stewart
Taylor lonergan tuohy
Bews s.selwood menegola
Parfitt hawkins buzza
Menzel danger motlop
Smith duncan j. selwood
Parfitt murdoch mackie kolo
Emer blitz parsons stanley

 

[The Casey Cat]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/09/13/cats-not-genuine-top-four-says-former-star/

I don't necessarily agree with all of it but these are Cam Mooney's thoughts on us this year.