Why don't we play well in finals?

[God Mode]

That’s because the 07-11 team was full of stars. They were good enough to win anywhere. The current side just isn’t as good, and the competition is much tighter. You need everything going your way to win, and relying on home and away wins is not enough for September.

Yes I agree, my point is rather than changing the dimensions of KP we should come up with a better gameplan and draft a better team to employ it.

 

[you pick one]

Why don't nearby Geelong players provide blocking moves for our ball-carriers. We NEVER seem to block much, or shepherd. Think of Scarlo's toepoke in the 2009 Grand Final. He followed up his work by shepherding Little Gaz until he kicked it in to a waiting Varcoe and, of course, the Bald Knight.

I want to see lots of that s**t on Friday.

I've heard Gaz talk about that he was off heading for goal when he got a glimps of another player,he thought he was about to be tackled and bombed away,turned out to be Scarlo on his shoulder.

 

[you pick one]

Yes I agree, my point is rather than changing the dimensions of KP we should come up with a better gameplan and draft a better team to employ it.

Like the 2007-11 game plan the Geelong hwy,straight up the guts, it doesn't matter a f--k what shape the ground is then.

 

[catempire]

The team of 07-11 never had a problem adjusting to the G. In fact I'd confidently say we played BETTER at the MCG in this time period. The problem is the gameplan/mindset of the current era.

You forgot a key ingredient: ABILITY.

 

[afl genius]

Not that good
No game plan
Coach has no idea

 

[afl genius]

Like the 2007-11 game plan the Geelong hwy,straight up the guts, it doesn't matter a f--k what shape the ground is then.

We look more and more like a Ross Lyon coached team every week. Might as well play on quick and move it quick. If we get beaten so be it

 

[rmcq]

Yes I agree, my point is rather than changing the dimensions of KP we should come up with a better gameplan and draft a better team to employ it.

The 2007-11 team was awesome. They were the team I liked to go an watch (Richmond games were BAD). Their skills were sublime, so they could pinpoint players and move the ball with ease.

Only thing is, changing a stadium has a guaranteed outcome, but good drafting takes skill and luck.

Sure it’s to the Cats financial advantage to make finals every year, but if you keep losing finals once you’re there, is it really worth it?

 

[catempire]

Only thing is, changing a stadium has a guaranteed outcome, but good drafting takes skill and luck.

Bizarre claim.

KP's dimensions were no barrier to past success.

 

[Vdubs]

This Geelong side and finals is like Gary Hocking and finals,to few doing the heavy lifting in the home and away to get there resulting in being burnt out come finals time.

Buddha was sensational in 2 finals in 89.
Can you forget his 94 Prelim v NM? Got us into a GF. Buddha v Carey as far as impact on the ground.
Buddha played well enough in most finals, got corked very early by Woosha in 94 GF, because they knew he was our engine.
95GF he was poor, but v good in lead up finals.
Unfair comparison.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Maybe Geelong has just got an overall poor record in finals over the journey

Reading this week for instance that Geel are now 2-8 against Rich in finals - and also read we have never beaten the Swans /Sth Melb in a final

We are badly negative against W/Coast in finals - i would be staggered if Geel are positive in finals against Ess and Carl

Even Footscray in the 50s i think beat Geel in big finals - and Freo even have a positive finals record against thus

Probably the only clubs Geel have a positive finals record against are true heavyweights - like StKilda and Fitzroy - lol - pity University didnt make the finals hey

Be interested if someone could post Geelongs finals record - team by team

 

[BotsMaster]

Maybe Geelong has just got an overall poor record in finals over the journey

Reading this week for instance that Geel are now 2-8 against Rich in finals - and also read we have never beaten the Swans /Sth Melb in a final

We are badly negative against W/Coast in finals - i would be staggered if Geel are positive in finals against Ess and Carl

Even Footscray in the 50s i think beat Geel in big finals - and Freo even have a positive finals record against thus

Probably the only clubs Geel have a positive finals record against are true heavyweights - like StKilda and Fitzroy - lol - pity University didnt make the finals hey

Be interested if someone could post Geelongs finals record - team by team

https://afltables.com/afl/teams/geelong/overall_wl.html#4

 

[Goggin Our Best]

https://afltables.com/afl/teams/geelong/overall_wl.html#4
View attachment 415827

Pretty ordinary record that

Nth Melb 5-2 there way

Fitzroy even bullied Geel in Sept 2-0 their way

 

[rmcq]

Bizarre claim.

KP's dimensions were no barrier to past success.

How do you know? If we assume that the Cats score an average 2 goals more at KP, and score 2 goals less playing at the MCG (total 4 goal turnaround), then if you're more than a 2 goal better team than the opposition (as you clearly were in 2007, etc), then that will mask any effect. However, if Geelong isn't that good, then it will be a significant factor.

I'm sure I could massage some stats to prove my point.

 

[iameviljez]

Yes I agree, my point is rather than changing the dimensions of KP we should come up with a better gameplan and draft a better team to employ it.

ah yes, the Get Better solution.

In all seriousness, we always had a massive advantage at KP, it's just more obvious now.

I also think that the narrowness of KP helps us defensively - Essendon and Collingwood picked their way through us at the G this year because we just struggled with the extra space.

 

[God Mode]

ah yes, the Get Better solution.

In all seriousness, we always had a massive advantage at KP, it's just more obvious now.

I also think that the narrowness of KP helps us defensively - Essendon and Collingwood picked their way through us at the G this year because we just struggled with the extra space.

Well it's our only solution as the ground dimension isn't going to change. It simply must be addressed this off-season.

 

[David the Cat]

The bottom line is we have not been good enough. I have said in other posts that I thought this group (2017 edition) as as good a side we have had with the improvement of our second tier group...

Then last week's QF came along...I am hopeful that there will be a different level of performance Friday night. I think this group is capable of it.

 

[Cataholic]

I see us like some cricketers........better than state level, but below national standard.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Straight into it:

1. Limited list depth
This has been an issue for a while, but especially over the last two years. None of Sydney, Adelaide or Richmond would have space for Murdoch, Zuthrie, Parsons or be forced to play Harry at CHF. Arguably, Blicavs, Bews, Parfitt and Kolodjashnij would also find it hard to break into those lineups.

This was also a big problem in 2013 - where we were great for depth in every position bar tall forwards and ruckmen. Guess who went down?

2. Kardinia advantage a big H&A boost
Whether it's the travel factor or the weird shape of the ground, we do play KP a lot better than the G. I think we hold our defensive shape a lot better at home, simply because the ground is so skinny.

3. Overachievement in H&A
Basically put, our stars have dragged us across the line in a lot of H&A games, often against ordinary sides. Across 2014 and 15, I remember than we went 10-0 in games decided by less than 2 goals. We went something like 5-1-0 in similar games this year. We don't get away with that in finals.

4. A few Barry Crockers
Sydney last year, Freo in 2012, Richmond this year.

5. Smaller mids not great in finals footy
A number of our players are better either one-on-one or in space. Motlop is the obvious candidate, but Menegola has also turned in some sub-par finals games compared to H&A output.

One word:
Heat, intensity, pressure......













Maths not my strong point

 

[Micksy]

one common denominator over this period. He has been the senior coach of all these teams

The other common denominator is the fans.

Admit it, we suck!

 

[David the Cat]

The other common denominator is the fans.

Admit it, we suck!

Reading certain parts of our board, that might be more of a realty than you think.

 

[iameviljez]

One word:
Heat, intensity, pressure......

Maths not my strong point

Absolutely - but I reckon that's to do with the lack of quality the way through our list. Kinda like only finding the crack in the glass when you put enough water in the tank.

 

[Micksy]

Reading certain parts of our board, that might be more of a realty than you think.

Agreed!

The tolerance for ineptitude is staggering!

 

[David the Cat]

Agreed!

The tolerance for ineptitude is staggering!

Absolutely.

 

[iameviljez]

Well it's our only solution as the ground dimension isn't going to change. It simply must be addressed this off-season.

My point is really that you can't just magically "get better" - it's really about identifying *why* it is that we play so much better at KP, what in our side is suited to that ground (unless it's just the "at home" factor) and work through that. There are 17 other sides working to get better - and most have better picks, and better young players.

 

[FISTO]

Motlop