EXPANDING the SANFL - PROMOTION and RELEGATION ... its time!

[Great8]

No reason why you can't support local clubs plus the state league side, especially if it's a new composite team of the best BLG players.

Wouldn't happen as the best BL&G players can early 3 times what a SANFL does. Many of the better players have either quit the SANFL system and are seeking a decent pay day or are young kids who prefer to stay at their local club rather than go down to the SANFL. The BL&G is a family orientated comp with footy and netball and having being involved with a club for 20 plus years I can safely say there would be little to no interest in the SANFL venture by the locals. I'm a die hard Norwood supporter and even I chose the local comp if it's on the same day

 

[SellarStardom]

We will unfortunately have to deal with a split league and possibly even conferences which I cannot stand, all to ensure no club feels it has "dropped down"

Fact is the AFL has too many clubs now, every club should play each other at least twice in tbe H&A season meaning 12 clubs would be optimal, 14 at worst. With Tasmania keen for a combined club out of their state this would push the league to 19 or 20 clubs.

A 14 club top tier and 10 club second tier, with 6 state league clubs adding to the 4 that are currently allocated to the AFL and we have a 2 tier national system.

 

[Heardy_101]

Pretty sad that an amateur local club can offer more $$ per game than a League that promotes itself as being the second best professional Australian rules football league in the country.

 

[chazwazza]

Pretty sad also that a once proud club reneges on its promise to its traditional members that their team will never be turned into an AFL franchise reserves team.

 

[marty36]

Pretty sad that an amateur local club can offer more $$ per game than a League that promotes itself as being the second best professional Australian rules football league in the country.

It can't the SANFL salary cap is 350000 no amateur local club is paying that or even close to that

They may be able to pay a couple of ring ins


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[Heardy_101]

Pretty sad also that a once proud club reneges on its promise to its traditional members that their team will never be turned into an AFL franchise reserves team.

Unless you're referring to the Magpies, then none of the SANFL clubs have been turned into franchises.

 

[GreyCrow]

Pretty sad that an amateur local club can offer more $$ per game than a League that promotes itself as being the second best professional Australian rules football league in the country.

It can't the SANFL salary cap is 350000 no amateur local club is paying that or even close to that

They may be able to pay a couple of ring ins


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You are both correct but coming at it from the wrong position.

Marty is right the SANFL cap is that amount and it is spread more evenly between players, Heardy is also correct that country and amateur clubs are paying some players a very good amount.

Its in the lower Reserves level where the SANFL struggles. Or used to. I assume not much has changed. Your Reserves are what builds the League. As a good Ressies player who occasionally plays League the money offered, with less training etc at country level would be a positive attractant. Unless you feel you have a good career opportunity why would you play SANFL.

It was mentioned Summerton may be one of the last 200 game players in the SANFL. That scares me more than anything

 

[chazwazza]

You are both correct but coming at it from the wrong position.

Marty is right the SANFL cap is that amount and it is spread more evenly between players, Heardy is also correct that country and amateur clubs are paying some players a very good amount.

Its in the lower Reserves level where the SANFL struggles. Or used to. I assume not much has changed. Your Reserves are what builds the League. As a good Ressies player who occasionally plays League the money offered, with less training etc at country level would be a positive attractant. Unless you feel you have a good career opportunity why would you play SANFL.

It was mentioned Summerton may be one of the last 200 game players in the SANFL. That scares me more than anything

I doubt it, even with a quick look Kirkwood has played about 150.
Summerton will almost definitely be the last player in a Magpies jumper but that's the decision they made.
Though t***ies.

 

[Heardy_101]

You are both correct but coming at it from the wrong position.

Marty is right the SANFL cap is that amount and it is spread more evenly between players, Heardy is also correct that country and amateur clubs are paying some players a very good amount.

Its in the lower Reserves level where the SANFL struggles. Or used to. I assume not much has changed. Your Reserves are what builds the League. As a good Ressies player who occasionally plays League the money offered, with less training etc at country level would be a positive attractant. Unless you feel you have a good career opportunity why would you play SANFL.

It was mentioned Summerton may be one of the last 200 game players in the SANFL. That scares me more than anything

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[marty36]

You are both correct but coming at it from the wrong position.

Marty is right the SANFL cap is that amount and it is spread more evenly between players, Heardy is also correct that country and amateur clubs are paying some players a very good amount.

Its in the lower Reserves level where the SANFL struggles. Or used to. I assume not much has changed. Your Reserves are what builds the League. As a good Ressies player who occasionally plays League the money offered, with less training etc at country level would be a positive attractant. Unless you feel you have a good career opportunity why would you play SANFL.

It was mentioned Summerton may be one of the last 200 game players in the SANFL. That scares me more than anything

Yes but country leagues have been pipping the SANFL for years for paying individual players the fact the sanfl clubs distribute their wages over an entire squad has been happening pre afl days it's nothing new


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[SellarStardom]

The payment issues aside, some big changes are needed or our great game may have reached its zenith and will forever decline.

If the state leagues continue to decline we will only have 1 professional/semi professional league in the country with the rest amateur leagues.

This would mean we have a major sport with only 390 professional players playing in each round with only 720 odd professional players in the entire sport.

That doesn't present a picture of success for any sport and significantly limits overseas players from trying to make a shot at it

 

[GreyCrow]

The payment issues aside, some big changes are needed or our great game may have reached its zenith and will forever decline.

If the state leagues continue to decline we will only have 1 professional/semi professional league in the country with the rest amateur leagues.

This eoild mean we have a major sport with only 390 professional players each round with only 720 odd professional players in the entire sport.

I know people don't like looking overseas , and especially America, but maybe we need to take a leaf out of their book

The one thing both NBA and NFL do is give one day over to their second tier pathway competition ie college programs. Now I know their are 2 pathway models trying to compete in Australia and both are trying to succeed. Figures say the U18s is winning the Draft battle while the State Leagues are winning (just) the attendance battle.

I don't have any magic answer and ultimately the AFL only care about their product. But it would be nice for the AFL to set aside Saturday afternoon for the State Leagues to stand alone. I don't care what the tv contract says now, that is something to work out , but from 12 till 7 the State Leagues get their games in and done. That way games of interest can be scheduled together ie Crows or Port either very close to 12 or a close proximity game eg Crows v Glenelg at Thebarton. Or a Port v at Woodville

I don't think an Australia wide 2nds League will ever work so prop up the State League as best you can

 

[SellarStardom]

I know people don't like looking overseas , and especially America, but maybe we need to take a leaf out of their book

The one thing both NBA and NFL do is give one day over to their second tier pathway competition ie college programs. Now I know their are 2 pathway models trying to compete in Australia and both are trying to succeed. Figures say the U18s is winning the Draft battle while the State Leagues are winning (just) the attendance battle.

I don't have any magic answer and ultimately the AFL only care about their product. But it would be nice for the AFL to set aside Saturday afternoon for the State Leagues to stand alone. I don't care what the tv contract says now, that is something to work out , but from 12 till 7 the State Leagues get their games in and done. That way games of interest can be scheduled together ie Crows or Port either very close to 12 or a close proximity game eg Crows v Glenelg at Thebarton. Or a Port v at Woodville

I don't think an Australia wide 2nds League will ever work so prop up the State League as best you can

But how would that impact/improve on the total number of professional or semi professional players. I don't see this altering the money within the state leagues meaning that it is impossible to improve the professionalism.

In short less than 1000 professionals is tiny and no other sport that tries to be number 1 in any western country has such a low number

 

[GreyCrow]

But how would that impact/improve on the total number of professional or semi professional players. I don't see this altering the money within the state leagues meaning that it is impossible to improve the professionalism.

In short less than 1000 professionals is tiny and no other sport that tries to be number 1 in any western country has such a low number

Then you are talking expansion. I don't think we have the population base yet to make expansion work. I also don't see the AFL swooping in and giving away money to a rival.

For a better comparison look at the numbers of Professional sportspeople in California , which has a similar population to Australia

 

[SellarStardom]

Then you are talking expansion. I don't think we have the population base yet to make expansion work. I also don't see the AFL swooping in and giving away money to a rival.

For a better comparison look at the numbers of Professional sportspeople in California , which has a similar population to Australia

Its a good reference GreyCrow. P&R is very common in European soccer and is absenr from US soccer. In the US there is a division system with 3 levels of note. The Major League (AFL), followed by the NASL and USL in the second division and finally the PDL (WAFL, SANFL). I would argue we are missing thw second division here in Australia.

What the European and US examples have in common is that they are all adminisyered through a national governing body. The Premier League doesnt dictate football in the UK, the FA does and the PL administers its league.

This is the thing missing in Aussie Rules. A governing body to administer the rules at all levels, work wiyh pmayers associations etc.

With such a body in place there woukd be beyter dialogue on the future of the game

 

[GreyCrow]

Its a good reference GreyCrow. P&R is very common in European soccer and is absenr from US soccer. In the US there is a division system with 3 levels of note. The Major League (AFL), followed by the NASL and USL in the second division and finally the PDL (WAFL, SANFL). I would argue we are missing thw second division here in Australia.

What the European and US examples have in common is that they are all adminisyered through a national governing body. The Premier League doesnt dictate football in the UK, the FA does and the PL administers its league.

This is the thing missing in Aussie Rules. A governing body to administer the rules at all levels, work wiyh pmayers associations etc.

With such a body in place there woukd be beyter dialogue on the future of the game

I agree and in the mid 70s this was the way forward but , as we see today, Viccentric needs were more important then as they seem to be now

 

[marty36]

Then you are talking expansion. I don't think we have the population base yet to make expansion work. I also don't see the AFL swooping in and giving away money to a rival.

For a better comparison look at the numbers of Professional sportspeople in California , which has a similar population to Australia

That is the issue the northern states haven't adopted the sport so we have 50% of a small population simply not enough to grow it


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[chazwazza]

The sport has been hijacked by the AFL, self appointed governing body....governing body of self interest more like it!
If the model that was proposed and fought for back in the 70's and 80's was for a more national governing body then we've been sold a dud.
What's worse is AFL players petulantly demanding more money while those in the second tier aren't even mentioned.
What a bunch of self righteous, self serving c***s.

 

[SellarStardom]

As much as the AFL might want it, the problems wont go away. Talking Foory last night discussing North Melbourne. A club who had its glory years in the 90's is lucky to get 25,000 to a game, a quarter of that being the opposition supporters. The war drums of moving them to Tasmania have started. They will become the Tasmanian Kangaroos and like South Melbourne and Fitzroy will disappear as a club.

North, St Kilda, Bulldogs are arguably expendable. The Vic centric ideology is strong when we talk Essendon, Demons, Collingwood and the others in the big 7. Divisions or P&R would actually guarantee their survival, not so under the current model.

 

[chazwazza]

The sad thing is that it's a transplanted Victorian side again and not a start up Tasmanian team.

 

[marty36]

As much as the AFL might want it, the problems wont go away. Talking Foory last night discussing North Melbourne. A club who had its glory years in the 90's is lucky to get 25,000 to a game, a quarter of that being the opposition supporters. The war drums of moving them to Tasmania have started. They will become the Tasmanian Kangaroos and like South Melbourne and Fitzroy will disappear as a club.

North, St Kilda, Bulldogs are arguably expendable. The Vic centric ideology is strong when we talk Essendon, Demons, Collingwood and the others in the big 7. Divisions or P&R would actually guarantee their survival, not so under the current model.

Your forgetting one important factor

The AFL commission is voted in by the 18 clubs 10 are Victorian do the maths if it' goes out of balance the balance of power is lost


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[SellarStardom]

Very true Marty, would be interesting, maybe all of us Crows supporters need to start supporting a Tassie team and in turn so should the SANFL.

Reality though is the for the time being the Suns and Giants are just Victorian puppets, but they will get tbeir own base sooner or later ala the Swans. Then the Victorian dominance may shift.

 

[chazwazza]

I was a big gee for the SANFL try and get a Tassie team and or a NT team. I think there were talks but it was just before the AFL set up NTAFL and the NEAFL. The goose is cooked and the AFL would never allow another semi power base to form in any way, they've played everyone off on each other beautifully and they live by the old divide and conquer mentality to this day.
I think the WAFL and SANFL should create closer ties, try and have a premiers play off etc and eventually bring in Tassie or non aligned VFL teams. Funding is the problem and then you have the AFL looking over your shoulder.

 

[redandblack]

The SANFL salary cap is $400K for league teams.

Promotion and relegation is financially impossible. Too expensive to be promoted and relegation would mean the end of a club.

 

[AdsGoNads]

The SANFL salary cap is $400K for league teams.

Promotion and relegation is financially impossible. Too expensive to be promoted and relegation would mean the end of a club.

Lift the cap + make clubs earn their spot!

Surely promotion + relegation is inevitable now.