The Charles Cameron Apology Thread

Sep 28, 2014
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The problem here is you're going on and on after 1 game.
He needs to have those kinda games fairly regularly.

We'll see whether he's worth pick 15.
I'm going on and on because you clowns of which some wanted him dropped are now saying we were right he was just due for a good game ( in a high stakes prelim mind you )

Meanwhile I said relax re him, he'll be fresh after a week off and will fire in the prelim mark my words

Did anyone say - well , gee that was right we shouldn't have been so stressed about him and so definite he should be dropped ?!!

No they didn't / just said he's due and should do it more often which would have been hard while sitting in the stands while Troy Menzel had his 4 possessions and 2 tackles
 
Depends on what you think his role is

It certainly wouldn't have been to me , the coaches or selectors but would have been to people that only look at possession rates and missed targets by foot
Is this you admitting there may have been a few deficiencies with his game? Can you see how maybe some people thought these deficiencies and issues might have justified him being dropped?

My point here is that while Cameron was excellent in the PF, there were genuine issues with his game in the middle of the season, and if he was dropped for these issues it would have been reasonable and justified.
 
Sep 28, 2014
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Is this you admitting there may have been a few deficiencies with his game? Can you see how maybe some people thought these deficiencies and issues might have justified him being dropped?

My point here is that while Cameron was excellent in the PF, there were genuine issues with his game in the middle of the season, and if he was dropped for these issues it would have been reasonable and justified.
There are deficiencies to Patrick Dangerfields game , Darren Jarman was a bit slow and not great defensively

What's your point , even when not as his best he was playing an important team role mind you under some duress . Did they rest him because of injury or drop him to sanfl or talk about it ? Did anyone talk about it other than on here and the crusaders ?

No because he was performing a team role still and by doub that helped team structurally , team balance , and he has weapons for big games that others don't have

You're trying to argue a different point in any case and I admit I'm being a w@nker but it's to over compensate for some dimwits on here
 
Oct 14, 2005
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When the heat was on early Cameron played like a match winner and continued

You guys are all still embarrassed by calling him to get dropped

I get it

You prob deserved a repeat of 2012 2006 2005 but you got lucky , maybe show some restraint this week
The fact that you weren't calling for him to be dropped proves only one thing - even a broken clock is right twice per day.
 
Oct 14, 2005
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Plenty of us have admitted we were wrong about Mackay, Camporeale, Doc Clarke. It's not that hard to do.
Most of us will be happy to admit that we were wrong, but Charlie has yet to prove that we are.

The PF was a one-off performance, which was a career best performance for him and (according to Champion Data) 3x better than his 2-year average performance. In other words, that performance was so far off the scale of what he normally does that a statistician would ignore it as an outlier.

Two weeks earlier he had an absolute stinker in the QF, barely hitting a target by foot all night, and having a massive 8 clangers. This was poor, even by Charlie's standards, but sadly it was still much closer to his "norm" than the PF performance.

If Cameron can lift his average performance to something closer to the PF level, then we'll apologise. But there's absolutely no reason to apologise, or say that we were wrong, for calling for him to be dropped, given how abysmally he performed from R12 to the QF - a 4 month window of absolute shiteness. His PF performance was a bolt from the blue, a massive contrast compared to everything he'd done in the previous 4 months. Only his biggest fanbois would have predicted it. Those of us who are capable of rational thought just didn't see him having such a massive and complete form reversal this late in the season, after such a prolonged period of poor form.
 
There are deficiencies to Patrick Dangerfields game , Darren Jarman was a bit slow and not great defensively

What's your point , even when not as his best he was playing an important team role mind you under some duress . Did they rest him because of injury or drop him to sanfl or talk about it ? Did anyone talk about it other than on here and the crusaders ?

No because he was performing a team role still and by doub that helped team structurally , team balance , and he has weapons for big games that others don't have

You're trying to argue a different point in any case and I admit I'm being a w@nker but it's to over compensate for some dimwits on here
I know he was playing a role and so forth. My only point is that if the coaches decided to drop Cameron, it wouldn't have been a surprise and it could have been justified. For that reason, calls to drop him during the season were not unreasonable at the time.

As it has turned out, he played well in the PF. He shouldn't have been dropped for that game and he wasn't. It was the right call.

But I have an issue with taking his PF performance and using it to say that calls to drop him earlier in the season were ridiculous. That's a retrospective analysis. A ridiculous call would be claiming Sloane needed to be dropped. Suggesting Cameron may have benefitted from some SANFL time in the middle of the season isn't a horrendously awful call I wouldn't have thought.
 

The Sloane Ranger

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Don't worry about the apology Charlie will get a Full State Premier Pardon if he plays another blinder on Saturday

Charlie is proving to be a very good Sept player, he was good against WB at the G a few years back, very good against Syd at the SCG last year and arguably BOG last week against Geelong
 
he's had a good season Vader ! Not saying he hasn't

He had a good start to the season, was pathetically bad post the bye and put in one good finals performance.

All in all, he's had a mediocre to poor season and for what this season should have been for him; that's not good enough.
 
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I hate winning prelims too

Playing a good game in a preliminary saved me from calling it an absolute failure of a season from Cameron.

It is possible to still be objective about his season, and calling it a disappointment; whilst acknowledging that he had a good preliminary final. A good preliminary final doesn't make his season be rated as good, just shows he is capable of a level higher then the dross he dished up for half a season.
 
Sep 28, 2014
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Playing a good game in a preliminary saved me from calling it an absolute failure of a season from Cameron.

It is possible to still be objective about his season, and calling it a disappointment; whilst acknowledging that he had a good preliminary final. A good preliminary final doesn't make his season be rated as good, just shows he is capable of a level higher then the dross he dished up for half a season.
That same dross that has been lauded with an article about the GF where his stats are better than any small forward playing other than Eddie who with Leigh Matthews is the best small forward of all time

Righto , you are / were WRONG and are getting defensive

Sad really , maybe you need a new hobby not sure this is for you
 
Sep 28, 2014
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I know he was playing a role and so forth. My only point is that if the coaches decided to drop Cameron, it wouldn't have been a surprise and it could have been justified. For that reason, calls to drop him during the season were not unreasonable at the time.

As it has turned out, he played well in the PF. He shouldn't have been dropped for that game and he wasn't. It was the right call.

But I have an issue with taking his PF performance and using it to say that calls to drop him earlier in the season were ridiculous. That's a retrospective analysis. A ridiculous call would be claiming Sloane needed to be dropped. Suggesting Cameron may have benefitted from some SANFL time in the middle of the season isn't a horrendously awful call I wouldn't have thought.
Funny that not even considered by anyone other than a few nuffies in bigfooty
 
That same dross that has been lauded with an article about the GF where his stats are better than any small forward playing other than Eddie who with Leigh Matthews is the best small forward of all time

Righto , you are / were WRONG and are getting defensive

Sad really , maybe you need a new hobby not sure this is for you

Ironic, that's the most defensive post I've seen in this thread. Good try though :)

Alright lets talk Cameron shall we, seeing you like stats here is one:

f9b2073711806eb1e63a536a73ed07e5.png


There is nearly no change in any of those stats, i.e. there has been no improvement in how Cameron is actually impacting the game this season from the last, and for a developing player in Camerons experience bracket, stagnation is an abject failure. Especially considering he was looking like he had improved come the bye which has meant he's undone every bit of good work he had done in the second half of the season.

To extend on that cold streak, Rnd 14 to the Qualifying final - Cameron scores 5 goals in that time, averages about 12 disposals as well. That's Matty "Non-statistics" Wright/Jared Petrenko territory of potato there, made doubly worse due to Cameron is both in a side that is functioning well, and isn't forced to survive on his own like Petrenko was. How anyone can praise his season with that cold streak in it is beyond me.

Also nice mention of an article where his stats are better then any small forward playing. Thanks for linking it too and really proving your point instead of offering up some hearsay, and an appeal to an undisclosed authority.
 

YKIMS

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Ironic, that's the most defensive post I've seen in this thread. Good try though :)

Alright lets talk Cameron shall we, seeing you like stats here is one:

f9b2073711806eb1e63a536a73ed07e5.png


There is nearly no change in any of those stats, i.e. there has been no improvement in how Cameron is actually impacting the game this season from the last, and for a developing player in Camerons experience bracket, stagnation is an abject failure. Especially considering he was looking like he had improved come the bye which has meant he's undone every bit of good work he had done in the second half of the season.

To extend on that cold streak, Rnd 14 to the Qualifying final - Cameron scores 5 goals in that time, averages about 12 disposals as well. That's Matty "Non-statistics" Wright/Jared Petrenko territory of potato there, made doubly worse due to Cameron is both in a side that is functioning well, and isn't forced to survive on his own like Petrenko was. How anyone can praise his season with that cold streak in it is beyond me.

Also nice mention of an article where his stats are better then any small forward playing. Thanks for linking it too and really proving your point instead of offering up some hearsay, and an appeal to an undisclosed authority.

Except you're looking at the wrong stats...


Perhaps try the following, which are KPI's for his role...

Over the past two seasons...

- Team points scored from turnovers created from his pressure. He's elite.
- Pressure acts. He's elite.
- Tackles i50. He's elite
- Score assists. He's elite.
- Kicks retained inside 50 (he may not always hit targets, but it's what results from those inside 50s that matters). He's also elite.

And of corse you're going to say to me "but, but, I don't have access to those stats!"

And I would reply with something along the lines of "Then perhaps don't try to slander a young bloke who is still in the early stages of his development at the top level, with meaningless, generic stats that apply to every other player across the competition, but do nothing to highlight his ability to fulfil the role he's chosen for. One he's extremely good at."

Perhaps spend an entire game watching him and only him, and you might start to get a glimpse of how hard he works for his teammates. You won't need to look at any stats after that :thumbsu:
 
Except you're looking at the wrong stats...


Perhaps try the following, which are KPI's for his role...

Over the past two seasons...

- Team points scored from turnovers created from his pressure. He's elite.
- Pressure acts. He's elite.
- Tackles i50. He's elite
- Score assists. He's elite.
- Kicks retained inside 50 (he may not always hit targets, but it's what results from those inside 50s that matters). He's also elite.

And of corse you're going to say to me "but, but, I don't have access to those stats!"

And I would reply with something along the lines of "Then perhaps don't try to slander a young bloke who is still in the early stages of his development at the top level, with meaningless, generic stats that apply to every other player across the competition, but do nothing to highlight his ability to fulfil the role he's chosen for. One he's extremely good at."

Perhaps spend an entire game watching him and only him, and you might start to get a glimpse of how hard he works for his teammates. You won't need to look at any stats after that :thumbsu:

So he is purely a defensive forward then? Guess what that only proves my point that he has stagnated.

For Cameron to step up to the next level he had to step up offensively, which is what the stats I mentioned showed. He was primed to do that and yet failed.

He is also 70 games in, which also means he is past the early stages of development. That's for kids who don't have an AFL based fitness. Does cameeon have that high of a ceiling, well it remains to be seen.
 
Nov 1, 2012
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Except you're looking at the wrong stats...


Perhaps try the following, which are KPI's for his role...

Over the past two seasons...

- Team points scored from turnovers created from his pressure. He's elite.
- Pressure acts. He's elite.
- Tackles i50. He's elite
- Score assists. He's elite.
- Kicks retained inside 50 (he may not always hit targets, but it's what results from those inside 50s that matters). He's also elite.

And of corse you're going to say to me "but, but, I don't have access to those stats!"

Really interesting, but you know the real question is why exactly you have them? ;)

Thanks for sharing though, very cool

And I would reply with something along the lines of "Then perhaps don't try to slander a young bloke who is still in the early stages of his development at the top level, with meaningless, generic stats that apply to every other player across the competition, but do nothing to highlight his ability to fulfil the role he's chosen for. One he's extremely good at."

That is entirely fair.

Just tell me I’m still allowed to call out bruise free josh for his seagull ways :p :D ;)

Just kidding*






* not kidding
 
Nov 1, 2012
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So he is purely a defensive forward then? Guess what that only proves my point that he has stagnated.

For Cameron to step up to the next level he had to step up offensively, which is what the stats I mentioned showed. He was primed to do that and yet failed.

He is also 70 games in, which also means he is past the early stages of development. That's for kids who don't have an AFL based fitness. Does cameeon have that high of a ceiling, well it remains to be seen.

This might be a good one to let go
 
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