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Right. Fresh off the devastation that was that Grand Final, it's time to make some ridiculous knee-jerk changes to the team that will never happen.

One can dream, I guess.

B Doedee- Talia - Brown
HB Laird - Hartigan - Seedsman
C Gibbs - B. Crouch - Milera
HF Lynch - Walker - McGovern
F Betts - Jenkins - Menzel
R Jacobs - Sloane - M. Crouch

I Hampton - Gallucci - Greenwood - Knight

Now here are some long notes about these changes that you can choose to read, or you can just skip it and start complaining about how this will obviously never happen or how it's too soon, etc.

1. I am assuming Lever and Cameron are gone, and we actually succeed in trading in Gibbs. I am also assuming no other trades (we're not good enough at trading) and no injuries aside from Smith's year-long ACL

2. If Mitch McGovern is injured, he should never be replaced by a slow tall forward ever again. Otten is only a replacement for a key tall like Jenkins or Walker in the event of injury. He is not good enough to play otherwise.

3. Sorry to all the haters, I was right on David Mackay. His good finals form was for nothing because he played like garbage when it mattered. This bloke should genuinely never play for the Crows ever again. Especially as we have players ready to go who play his position. It's inexcusable to continue letting this spud on the field for the AFC, in fact it's a disgrace. Back in a kid to do what he does.

4. If we get Gibbs, it's clear who he pushes out: Richard Douglas. He's just not good enough. Gibbs slots in immediately to Douglas' position and we are a much better side. Plus we will continue to see Greenwood develop and that will make Douglas even less important.

5. Menzel replaces Cameron. The guy has talent, he has the defensive work ethic to replace what Cameron provided, and he can also be a more consistent offensive weapon. Sure, he doesn't have the pace of Cameron, but we can compensate through better ball users under pressure in the midfield.

6. Smaller, more attacking defence. I think the days are gone where you can play 4+ lockdown defenders. Lever is gone, and I'd also drop Kelly, merging their positions into Doedee who we finally back in and debut. Kelly has really emerged to become a decent player but he's just not tall enough to play on monsters, not quick enough to curb smalls and not attacking enough to provide anything moving up the ground. I think the most successful defences these days have mostly rebounding players as their medium and smaller defenders. That's where I think we should be headed, which is why I'd swap in Doedee, and also use Seedsman as a Smith replacement. I'm not sold on Seed as a wingman, but he's played good football on the half back line. Plus he's a hell of a lot better than Mackay in distributing the ball. Hampton also comes in to rotate from the midfield to half back in support.

7. No more Atkins. He's proven time and again he doesn't have what it takes to play pressure football. He comes out for Gallucci, who we back in as an extra midfielder with hardness through the wings. It also gives us more flexibility to rotate him into the center.

8. Deeper midfield with more players that can play multiple roles. I think we suffered from having Atkins, Mackay, Knight and others in the team who could only play outside football. By dropping Mackay and Atkins for Hampton and Gallucci while also adding Gibbs and retaining Greenwood, we'd have a great mix of inside and outside talent that's interchangeable between these positions. Players like Hampton are fairly decent distributors but harder at the football. Milera is the only player I'd play who is pure outside, as his disposal and decision making is elite. Knight gets retained as I think he's a valuable stopper, decent distributor and can play finals football.

9. Jenkins. This guy cannot play finals football, but who else do we have? Not sure I'd want to roll with an extra small and play just Walker and McGovern. And Otten, while he has been serviceable, I don't think is the right replacement.

10. Are we dropping too much experience? No. Gibbs comes in as a senior player for Douglas. Menzel and Hampton have AFL experience. Milera is developing but not a first year player. The only real debutants are Doedee and Gallucci, who have been in the system for 1-2 years now.

11. This should help address the issue with too many soft utensil outside ball winners who melt under finals pressure (Atkins, Mackay), not enough distribution from the backline to adequately play our attacking football (Kelly), and a ludicrously tall forward line that loves to let the opposition rebound (Otten).

Final changes:

Out: Otten, Lever, Cameron, Atkins, Kelly, Mackay, Douglas
In: McGovern, Doedee, Menzel, Milera, Hampton, Gallucci, Gibbs
 
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Right. Fresh off the devastation that was that Grand Final, it's time to make some ridiculous knee-jerk changes to the team that will never happen.

One can dream, I guess.

B Doedee- Talia - Brown
HB Laird - Hartigan - Seedsman
C Gibbs - B. Crouch - Milera
HF Lynch - Walker - McGovern
F Betts - Jenkins - Menzel
R Jacobs - Sloane - M. Crouch

I Hampton - Gallucci - Greenwood - Knight

Now here are some long notes about these changes that you can choose to read, or you can just skip it and start complaining about how this will obviously never happen.

1. I am assuming Lever and Cameron are gone, and we actually succeed in trading in Gibbs. I am also assuming no other trades (we're not good enough at trading) and no injuries aside from Smith's year-long ACL

2. If Mitch McGovern is injured, he should never be replaced by a slow tall forward ever again. Otten is only a replacement for a key tall like Jenkins or Walker in the event of injury. He is not good enough to play otherwise.

3. Sorry to all the haters, I was right on David Mackay. His good finals form was for nothing because he played like garbage when it mattered. This bloke should genuinely never play for the Crows ever again. Especially as we have players ready to go who play his position. It's inexcusable to continue letting this spud on the field for the AFC, in fact it's a disgrace. Back in a kid to do what he does.

4. If we get Gibbs, it's clear who he pushes out: Richard Douglas. He's just not good enough. Gibbs slots in immediately to Douglas' position and we are a much better side. Plus we will continue to see Greenwood develop and that will make Douglas even less important.

5. Menzel replaces Cameron. The guy has talent, he has the defensive work ethic to replace what Cameron provided, and he can also be a more consistent offensive weapon. Sure, he doesn't have the pace of Cameron, but we can compensate through better ball users under pressure in the midfield.

6. Smaller, more attacking defence. I think the days are gone where you can play 4+ lockdown defenders. Lever is gone, and I'd also drop Kelly, merging their positions into Doedee who we finally back in and debut. Kelly has really emerged to become a decent player but he's just not tall enough to play on monsters, not quick enough to curb smalls and not attacking enough to provide anything moving up the ground. I think the most successful defences these days have mostly rebounding players as their medium and smaller defenders. That's where I think we should be headed, which is why I'd swap in Doedee, and also use Seedsman as a Smith replacement. I'm not sold on Seed as a wingman, but he's played good football on the half back line. Plus he's a hell of a lot better than Mackay in distributing the ball. Hampton also comes in to rotate from the midfield to half back in support.

7. No more Atkins. He's proven time and again he doesn't have what it takes to play pressure football. He comes out for Gallucci, who we back in as an extra midfielder with hardness through the wings. It also gives us more flexibility to rotate him into the center.

8. Deeper midfield with more players that can play multiple roles. I think we suffered from having Atkins, Mackay, Knight and others in the team who could only play outside football. By dropping Mackay and Atkins for Hampton and Gallucci while also adding Gibbs and retaining Greenwood, we'd have a great mix of inside and outside talent that's interchangeable between these positions. Players like Hampton are fairly decent distributors but harder at the football. Milera is the only player I'd play who is pure outside, as his disposal and decision making is elite. Knight gets retained as I think he's a valuable stopper, decent distributor and can play finals football.

9. Jenkins. This guy cannot play finals football, but who else do we have? Not sure I'd want to roll with an extra small and play just Walker and McGovern. And Otten, while he has been serviceable, I don't think is the right replacement.

10. Are we dropping too much experience? No. Gibbs comes in as a senior player for Douglas. Menzel and Hampton have AFL experience. Milera is developing but not a first year player. The only real debutants are Doedee and Gallucci, who have been in the system for 1-2 years now.

11. This should help address the issue with too many soft utensil outside ball winners who melt under finals pressure (Atkins, Mackay), not enough distribution from the backline to adequately play our attacking football (Kelly), and a ludicrously tall forward line that loves to let the opposition rebound (Otten).

Final changes:

Out: Otten, Lever, Cameron, Atkins, Kelly, Mackay, Douglas
In: McGovern, Doedee, Menzel, Milera, Hampton, Gallucci, Gibbs
Spot on I reckon. Reckon we might see more of Keath too
 
Right. Fresh off the devastation that was that Grand Final, it's time to make some ridiculous knee-jerk changes to the team that will never happen.

One can dream, I guess.

B Doedee- Talia - Brown
HB Laird - Hartigan - Seedsman
C Gibbs - B. Crouch - Milera
HF Lynch - Walker - McGovern
F Betts - Jenkins - Menzel
R Jacobs - Sloane - M. Crouch

I Hampton - Gallucci - Greenwood - Knight

Now here are some long notes about these changes that you can choose to read, or you can just skip it and start complaining about how this will obviously never happen or how it's too soon, etc.

1. I am assuming Lever and Cameron are gone, and we actually succeed in trading in Gibbs. I am also assuming no other trades (we're not good enough at trading) and no injuries aside from Smith's year-long ACL

2. If Mitch McGovern is injured, he should never be replaced by a slow tall forward ever again. Otten is only a replacement for a key tall like Jenkins or Walker in the event of injury. He is not good enough to play otherwise.

3. Sorry to all the haters, I was right on David Mackay. His good finals form was for nothing because he played like garbage when it mattered. This bloke should genuinely never play for the Crows ever again. Especially as we have players ready to go who play his position. It's inexcusable to continue letting this spud on the field for the AFC, in fact it's a disgrace. Back in a kid to do what he does.

4. If we get Gibbs, it's clear who he pushes out: Richard Douglas. He's just not good enough. Gibbs slots in immediately to Douglas' position and we are a much better side. Plus we will continue to see Greenwood develop and that will make Douglas even less important.

5. Menzel replaces Cameron. The guy has talent, he has the defensive work ethic to replace what Cameron provided, and he can also be a more consistent offensive weapon. Sure, he doesn't have the pace of Cameron, but we can compensate through better ball users under pressure in the midfield.

6. Smaller, more attacking defence. I think the days are gone where you can play 4+ lockdown defenders. Lever is gone, and I'd also drop Kelly, merging their positions into Doedee who we finally back in and debut. Kelly has really emerged to become a decent player but he's just not tall enough to play on monsters, not quick enough to curb smalls and not attacking enough to provide anything moving up the ground. I think the most successful defences these days have mostly rebounding players as their medium and smaller defenders. That's where I think we should be headed, which is why I'd swap in Doedee, and also use Seedsman as a Smith replacement. I'm not sold on Seed as a wingman, but he's played good football on the half back line. Plus he's a hell of a lot better than Mackay in distributing the ball. Hampton also comes in to rotate from the midfield to half back in support.

7. No more Atkins. He's proven time and again he doesn't have what it takes to play pressure football. He comes out for Gallucci, who we back in as an extra midfielder with hardness through the wings. It also gives us more flexibility to rotate him into the center.

8. Deeper midfield with more players that can play multiple roles. I think we suffered from having Atkins, Mackay, Knight and others in the team who could only play outside football. By dropping Mackay and Atkins for Hampton and Gallucci while also adding Gibbs and retaining Greenwood, we'd have a great mix of inside and outside talent that's interchangeable between these positions. Players like Hampton are fairly decent distributors but harder at the football. Milera is the only player I'd play who is pure outside, as his disposal and decision making is elite. Knight gets retained as I think he's a valuable stopper, decent distributor and can play finals football.

9. Jenkins. This guy cannot play finals football, but who else do we have? Not sure I'd want to roll with an extra small and play just Walker and McGovern. And Otten, while he has been serviceable, I don't think is the right replacement.

10. Are we dropping too much experience? No. Gibbs comes in as a senior player for Douglas. Menzel and Hampton have AFL experience. Milera is developing but not a first year player. The only real debutants are Doedee and Gallucci, who have been in the system for 1-2 years now.

11. This should help address the issue with too many soft utensil outside ball winners who melt under finals pressure (Atkins, Mackay), not enough distribution from the backline to adequately play our attacking football (Kelly), and a ludicrously tall forward line that loves to let the opposition rebound (Otten).

Final changes:

Out: Otten, Lever, Cameron, Atkins, Kelly, Mackay, Douglas
In: McGovern, Doedee, Menzel, Milera, Hampton, Gallucci, Gibbs
Couldn’t agree more . And you forgot the last change. Campo out Scorpus in
 
Right. Fresh off the devastation that was that Grand Final, it's time to make some ridiculous knee-jerk changes to the team that will never happen.

One can dream, I guess.

B Doedee- Talia - Brown
HB Laird - Hartigan - Seedsman
C Gibbs - B. Crouch - Milera
HF Lynch - Walker - McGovern
F Betts - Jenkins - Menzel
R Jacobs - Sloane - M. Crouch

I Hampton - Gallucci - Greenwood - Knight

Now here are some long notes about these changes that you can choose to read, or you can just skip it and start complaining about how this will obviously never happen or how it's too soon, etc.

1. I am assuming Lever and Cameron are gone, and we actually succeed in trading in Gibbs. I am also assuming no other trades (we're not good enough at trading) and no injuries aside from Smith's year-long ACL

2. If Mitch McGovern is injured, he should never be replaced by a slow tall forward ever again. Otten is only a replacement for a key tall like Jenkins or Walker in the event of injury. He is not good enough to play otherwise.

3. Sorry to all the haters, I was right on David Mackay. His good finals form was for nothing because he played like garbage when it mattered. This bloke should genuinely never play for the Crows ever again. Especially as we have players ready to go who play his position. It's inexcusable to continue letting this spud on the field for the AFC, in fact it's a disgrace. Back in a kid to do what he does.

4. If we get Gibbs, it's clear who he pushes out: Richard Douglas. He's just not good enough. Gibbs slots in immediately to Douglas' position and we are a much better side. Plus we will continue to see Greenwood develop and that will make Douglas even less important.

5. Menzel replaces Cameron. The guy has talent, he has the defensive work ethic to replace what Cameron provided, and he can also be a more consistent offensive weapon. Sure, he doesn't have the pace of Cameron, but we can compensate through better ball users under pressure in the midfield.

6. Smaller, more attacking defence. I think the days are gone where you can play 4+ lockdown defenders. Lever is gone, and I'd also drop Kelly, merging their positions into Doedee who we finally back in and debut. Kelly has really emerged to become a decent player but he's just not tall enough to play on monsters, not quick enough to curb smalls and not attacking enough to provide anything moving up the ground. I think the most successful defences these days have mostly rebounding players as their medium and smaller defenders. That's where I think we should be headed, which is why I'd swap in Doedee, and also use Seedsman as a Smith replacement. I'm not sold on Seed as a wingman, but he's played good football on the half back line. Plus he's a hell of a lot better than Mackay in distributing the ball. Hampton also comes in to rotate from the midfield to half back in support.

7. No more Atkins. He's proven time and again he doesn't have what it takes to play pressure football. He comes out for Gallucci, who we back in as an extra midfielder with hardness through the wings. It also gives us more flexibility to rotate him into the center.

8. Deeper midfield with more players that can play multiple roles. I think we suffered from having Atkins, Mackay, Knight and others in the team who could only play outside football. By dropping Mackay and Atkins for Hampton and Gallucci while also adding Gibbs and retaining Greenwood, we'd have a great mix of inside and outside talent that's interchangeable between these positions. Players like Hampton are fairly decent distributors but harder at the football. Milera is the only player I'd play who is pure outside, as his disposal and decision making is elite. Knight gets retained as I think he's a valuable stopper, decent distributor and can play finals football.

9. Jenkins. This guy cannot play finals football, but who else do we have? Not sure I'd want to roll with an extra small and play just Walker and McGovern. And Otten, while he has been serviceable, I don't think is the right replacement.

10. Are we dropping too much experience? No. Gibbs comes in as a senior player for Douglas. Menzel and Hampton have AFL experience. Milera is developing but not a first year player. The only real debutants are Doedee and Gallucci, who have been in the system for 1-2 years now.

11. This should help address the issue with too many soft utensil outside ball winners who melt under finals pressure (Atkins, Mackay), not enough distribution from the backline to adequately play our attacking football (Kelly), and a ludicrously tall forward line that loves to let the opposition rebound (Otten).

Final changes:

Out: Otten, Lever, Cameron, Atkins, Kelly, Mackay, Douglas
In: McGovern, Doedee, Menzel, Milera, Hampton, Gallucci, Gibbs

Menzel LOL....wishful thinking based on hope and nothing else and if Milera doesn't show more thirst for the contested side of the game he falls into the same category, pea hearts do not stand up in the heat of Finals footy like today, you can have all the skill you like but you must be able to win your own contested ball too.
 
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Menzel LOL....wishful thinking based on hope and nothing else and if Milera doesn't show more thirst for the contested side of the game he falls into the same category, pea hearts do not stand up in the heat of Finals footy like today, you can have all the skill you like but you must be able to win your own contested ball too.

We don't have anyone better in our squad to play those roles and we aren't good enough to trade in replacements
 

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Menzel. ... I wish, but this was the year he was supposed to step up, "came unfit from Carlton, but after a year with us... blah blah" Didn;t happen.
Milera... I wish, but my suspicion is he will play very well when we're playing well... still young so I guess... wish I had a sense of excitement about him that others do. Hope I'm wrong.
Doedee... I hope. I haven't seen him play, but as I posted elsewhere first Rd picks who get 0 games in their first two years don't have a good history. Can argue he is a different case due to development. He'll have to be.

From the 2015 and 2016 drafts, we have got 25 games - 24 for Milera, 1 for Gallucci. And we're about to lose Lever from the 2014 draft,. Wigg and Dear probably will be cut, leaving McGovern. [Excluding the mature rookie Greenwood]

So Rd 1 next year from THREE years of drafts we will have just TWO players who have been at times regulars in our best 22.

That's the type of hole that eventually comes to haunt you.

We need the young players to step up ASAP. Their off-seasons, and our draft and trades will greatly determine how we go next year.
 
Opportunity is knocking and it's a big ore-season for Gallucci, Hampton, Keath, Doedee, Milera and Menzel in particular and Greenwood needs improve his running if he is going to hold his spot in the side

Poholke, Jarman and Davis also need to take steps forward
 
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My team at this stage in the assumption that Gibbs comes to the club and we lose both Lever and Cameron

B. Keath. Talia. Brown
HB. Laird. Hartigan. Gallucci.
C. Gibbs. M. Crouch. Seedsman.
HF. Lynch. Walker. Milera
F. McGovern. Jenkins. Betts.
R. Sauce. Sloane. B. Crouch
Int. Kelly. Greenwood. Atkins. Hampton

Emg: ROB. Doedee. Menzel

Out of GF team
Otten, DMac, Douglas, Lever and Cameron

In
Keath, Gibbs, Hampton, Gallucci and Milera
 
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Menzel LOL....wishful thinking based on hope and nothing else and if Milera doesn't show more thirst for the contested side of the game he falls into the same category, pea hearts do not stand up in the heat of Finals footy like today, you can have all the skill you like but you must be able to win your own contested ball too.
In all fairness to Milera he has stood up in finals in the SANFL and is still very slight of body. Give the kid a break, let him put on 5kg of muscle and then I think you will find his hesitancy will get less and less. When I played some of the tougher guys as seniors were pussies when they were teens or skinnier. Once they filled out they became way more confident in their body to hold up to heavy contact.
 
In all fairness to Milera he has stood up in finals in the SANFL and is still very slight of body. Give the kid a break, let him put on 5kg of muscle and then I think you will find his hesitancy will get less and less. When I played some of the tougher guys as seniors were pussies when they were teens or skinnier. Once they filled out they became way more confident in their body to hold up to heavy contact.
Mate I know he's a favourite of yours but until I see him attack every contest with vigour and hardness nothing anyone says will convince me.....actions speak louder than words. I truly hope you/re right and unlike a certain other poster I'll happily chow down on a big slice of humble pie when I'm proven wrong....until then.
 
Greenwood definitely needs to improve his fitness levels 59% TOG yesterday again.
Should not have played, it's been clear he's had issues with his calf for weeks.......Hampton would likely have offered more under those circumstances and would have been like for like.
 
Mate I know he's a favourite of yours but until I see him attack every contest with vigour and hardness nothing anyone says will convince me.....actions speak louder than words. I truly hope you/re right and unlike a certain other poster I'll happily chow down on a big slice of humble pie when I'm proven wrong....until then.
The thing is I don't disagree with you. You are right. But I think you forget sometimes (probably not helped after watching the gf yesterday and all those soft efforts:() how young/slight he is. I know you can see his talent, no arguments there, but lets make this a case for further discussion next year. * the humble pie, I wont make you eat it:D
 
Should not have played, it's been clear he's had issues with his calf for weeks.......Hampton would likely have offered more under those circumstances and would have been like for like.
I reckon they rolled the dice and went better the devil you know. Hampton had had a long layoff. Still think Hampton could/should have come in for Otten if we were concerned about his lack of game time he should have been picked against Geelong. Otten was only average against Geelong anyway and a complete witches hat yesterday.
 
Brown ~ Hartigan ~ Keath
Laird ~ Talia ~ Doedee
Atkins ~ Sloane ~ Gibbs
Jacobs ~ M.Crouch ~ B.Crouch
Lynch ~ Walker ~ Cameron
Betts ~ Jenkins ~ McGovern
Galluci ~ Greenwood ~ Douglas
Milera

Pick 6/10, Knight, Menzel, Kelly, Hampton, Otten, CEY, Poholke, Jarman, Mackay

If Cameron goes give Menzel first crack.
Obviously adding Jeremy McGovern to this team would be ideal.
 

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