Review The Grand Final Disaster of 2017.

[Mepeyep]

Man that board is so bad. Its like the /rdonald of big footy. Hive mind mentality. I got banned for a day because I posted a few responses to the Port trolls claiming we choked, explaining that being beaten for 3 qtrs by a better team isn't choking, it's just being beaten by a better side (which is more of an admission of our shortcomings I would have thought) and pointed out that port in 2000_2003 is what choking is... Being the better side and still finding a way to lose.. Like burgoyne playing on from the goal square and getting tackled.

You should have seen the attacks I got. Lol. Yet the Port mod banned me and allowed them to continue on for like 8 pages .

No wonder it's a cesspool hive mind mentality when they can post any bullshit they want, and when called on it just ban the people who correct them.

Terrible board. Terrible club. Terrible supporters.

Adelaide supporters: "We'll be happy with making a prelim this (last) year"

Port supporters: "Lol stupid crers, no high expectations, that's why you're always mediocre"

Adelaide supporters this year: "Yeah we think we're a really good chance to win the flag"

Port supporters: "Lol stupid crers, getting ahead of yourselves"

If anyone says the Adelaide Port rivalry has lost its bite, show them bigfooty. On both sides the hatred towards the other club can get vicious and incredibly bitter.

 

[skittlebrew]

 

[fairfooty]

Can't stop shouting "yellow and black!"
Hate this

Yep I heard 'Tigerland' so many times on Saturday I'm pretty much word perfect! LOL!!

 

[Captain chaos]

Nice of you to drop in
Was that the same "leaders" that knocked your team for 6?

Yes we were knocked for six on your home ground by the hometown heroes who couldn’t get it done on the road when it mattered . How bad was Walker ?

 

[FrustratedTiger]

So, we made the GF because of AO home-ground umpiring bias? Go feed your seeing-eye-dog, mate, then take your medication --- that's the least sensible thing I've read in this thread.
Your bloke held Betts' outstretched L arm in the goalsquare, with both of his hands, second quarter . Certain goal, denied.
The umpires killed us 12-4 to halftime and halted our momentum in that second quarter. Who can say what might have happened if we'd been 16 points up after that, and running on?

You think there's no AO bias and you think I'm blind? Everyone except Adelaide and Port fans KNOW there's an AO umpiring bias. It's discussed in the commentary every time a game is played there. As I said, same with Kardinia Park and Subi. The crowd influence the umpires. That's fine but don't sook when it goes against you here. What comes around, goes around. I agree with the Betts one, that was a bad miss, but the umpires didn't kill you 12-4 - your players did with undisciplined football.

Who made you the last word on who should be Captain? Have that argument with the players who chose Michael Tuck, Kernahan, Carey, Brown as AFLPA Best Captain and the coaches who chose them.
Btw, I'd take Walker over Cotchin, any day. 2016-17 AFLPA Best Captain, voted by his peers. Shove your opinions on our captain where the sun don't shine.

Hey, if Adelaide wants to aspire for mediocrity, they'll keep doing what they're doing. It worked great 20-30 years ago, you're right. The game evolves. It didn't work for you on Saturday because instead of Tex rousing his players to play united as a team, he was stuck in the forward line while his players were arguing amongst themselves on the field. Gotta wonder, when the wheels were falling off in the 2nd quarter and the squabbling began, if Tex would have had more influence on his players from the midfield. I'll bet your hierarchy are wondering it.


As for my complimenting Adelaide supporters, I clearly didn't encounter you.

 

[Wouldbetackler]

You think there's no AO bias and you think I'm blind? Everyone except Adelaide and Port fans KNOW there's an AO umpiring bias. It's discussed in the commentary every time a game is played there. As I said, same with Kardinia Park and Subi. The crowd influence the umpires. That's fine but don't sook when it goes against you here. What comes around, goes around. I agree with the Betts one, that was a bad miss, but the umpires didn't kill you 12-4 - your players did with undisciplined football.




Hey, if Adelaide wants to aspire for mediocrity, they'll keep doing what they're doing. It worked great 20-30 years ago, you're right. The game evolves. It didn't work for you on Saturday because instead of Tex rousing his players to play united as a team, he was stuck in the forward line while his players were arguing amongst themselves on the field. Gotta wonder, when the wheels were falling off in the 2nd quarter and the squabbling began, if Tex would have had more influence on his players from the midfield. I'll bet your hierarchy are wondering it.


As for my complimenting Adelaide supporters, I clearly didn't encounter you.

You guys barely leave Victoria to play

 

[fairfooty]

While I'm as disappointed as anyone, I will never ever bag my boys. While I was pretty disappointed, no-one could be feeling as bad as they are. I'm actually not sure exactly what happened but from where I sat at the MCG, among other things it looked like a severe case of stage fright/performance anxiety to me.

There had to be a winner and a runner-up last Saturday - and the runner-up was us. It's a game and that's what happens. Yes we lost the last dance of the season - but gee it was fun getting there! The Melbourne Storm were runners up in 2016. Yesterday they won the big dance in 2017. So we need to get around this team and then we'll re-group and give 2018 a red-hot crack.

And yes I drove my fellow Crow travellers mad on the way back in the car perfecting 'Tigerland' after listening to it three million times at the presentations! Hey, what else was there to do in the car but laugh, sing the catchiest club song in the AFL and look to next year. Bring on 2018!!

 

[subaru]

Yes we were knocked for six on your home ground by the hometown heroes who couldn’t get it done on the road when it mattered . How bad was Walker ?

And you couldn't get it done on the road when it mattered either !

Seriously
What a strange post

 

[Elite Crow]

You think there's no AO bias and you think I'm blind? Everyone except Adelaide and Port fans KNOW there's an AO umpiring bias. It's discussed in the commentary every time a game is played there. As I said, same with Kardinia Park and Subi. The crowd influence the umpires. That's fine but don't sook when it goes against you here. What comes around, goes around. I agree with the Betts one, that was a bad miss, but the umpires didn't kill you 12-4 - your players did with undisciplined football.




Hey, if Adelaide wants to aspire for mediocrity, they'll keep doing what they're doing. It worked great 20-30 years ago, you're right. The game evolves. It didn't work for you on Saturday because instead of Tex rousing his players to play united as a team, he was stuck in the forward line while his players were arguing amongst themselves on the field. Gotta wonder, when the wheels were falling off in the 2nd quarter and the squabbling began, if Tex would have had more influence on his players from the midfield. I'll bet your hierarchy are wondering it.


As for my complimenting Adelaide supporters, I clearly didn't encounter you.

Geelong had more frees than we did at AO, how is that bias?

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Geelong had more frees than we did at AO, how is that bias?

We got absolutely reamed by the umps that night.

 

[crowsontv]

People said along we can't win a flag with guys like otten and mackay in the side
They were proved right.
There's better players running around in the sanfl then some of our bottom five or six

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[Rotayjay]

A broken clock is right twice a day. Said this on April 12:

Last night, I had a dream in which we play Geelong in a grand final. For some reason, the Crows cheer squad doesn't have a variety of flags and banners, just half-a-dozen big Raptor Head flags. We lose by 40 points.

The Raptor Head flags are still waving in my eyes. I dreamed that scoreline at 3 quarter time is something like 90-53 their way, and I'm saying 'We can come back! There's still time!' and my mate is shaking his head.

Wasn't Geelong and the Raptor Heads didn't appear in the cheer squad, but does anyone else think Saturday had the feel of a nightmare come true? Even that weird afternoon light, that aggressive passionate cheer from us when we kicked the first goal and thought it was all coming together, and that sickly sunset lighting the triumph of our opponents.

 

[Crowhorse]

A broken clock is right twice a day. Said this on April 12:




Wasn't Geelong and the Raptor Heads didn't appear in the cheer squad, but does anyone else think Saturday had the feel of a nightmare come true? Even that weird afternoon light, that aggressive passionate cheer from us when we kicked the first goal and thought it was all coming together, and that sickly sunset lighting the triumph of our opponents.

A lot of people I know and plenty on here were very nervous about this game. Like a premonition that something was going to go wrong.

I think we were still a bit beat up about the club's recovery when we should have been celebrating it. Yes some things have gone wrong for this club but god damn many things have to go right to make a GF.

We all lost the mental game in this one, I hope we realise that now, and take it into setting up an enjoyable 2018 season.

 

[Samcro24]

A broken clock is right twice a day. Said this on April 12:




Wasn't Geelong and the Raptor Heads didn't appear in the cheer squad, but does anyone else think Saturday had the feel of a nightmare come true? Even that weird afternoon light, that aggressive passionate cheer from us when we kicked the first goal and thought it was all coming together, and that sickly sunset lighting the triumph of our opponents.

It was surreal and a bit of a blur.

Game went so quickly. Over in the second. Was like watching a car crash in slow motion

 

[moogerfooger]

So difficult to reconcile.

In 2005 and 2012 we finished top two but faltered in a first up home final as heavy favourites. We smashed that hoodoo this year.

In 2006 we fell in a home preliminary final. Again, emphatically crushed that at of the park this year against a team that has been a bogey team for us.

It felt like significant progress - dealing with expectation, performing on the biggest stage. Now though it feels like we're back to square one.

We made progress dealing with expectation but only by winning finals at home - 5 of 6 finals were won by the home state side (discounting Gee v Rich - no home state advantage) and all of them decisively.

Richmond and us beat the same sides in the finals by very similar margins on our home grounds.

Going into the finals, we feared Sydney the most and yet they lost their first away final in a manner very similar to the way we lost the GF.

We played Richmond on their home ground in the GF and they beat us pretty much the same way they did Geelong and GWS.

Is it as simple as that? The top four or five were pretty even and home ground advantage was therefore decisive?

 

[CrowBloke]

1) Is it as simple as that?
2) The top four or five were pretty even and home ground advantage was therefore decisive?

Good post, thought-provoking.
1) I'd have to say say 'no'.
There are many factors. Some are obvious, eg we definitely missed Gov and Smith who add grunt and skill, and speed which we lacked on the day. It looked like Greenwood was only good for a half a game, if that, calf injury. Tex has been carrying a "turf toe" injury, apparently. CC had a PF blinder, Mackay, Douglas, Atkins had all played well in the 2 finals. All fell away in the GF. Lynch was shadowed all day --- smart move by Hardwick --- and was less effective. JJ looked soft, ineffective. The list of good players who had bad games goes on.
Then there are intangibles like
--- mindset. Hammering Richmond by 76 points in Round 6 might have done us more harm than good, and more good than harm for them. It gave us time to dismiss them and not take them seriously months later. It gave them time to reflect and act upon that loss. I knew that Richmond had improved --- blind Freddy could see it in their QF and PF wins, but I always thought they would not be able to turn around a 76-point hiding. I'd love to see stats on that, ie how many teams have lost by around 76 points only to beat their conqueror later in the same season?
--- we don;t know how disruptive the GF parade was
--- how travelling to then being at the MCG disrupts player routine
--- we had a number of young blokes under 25, suddenly faced with the cauldron, heat and noise of a pro-Richmond crowd, plus the pressure of being in an AFL GF. It would unnerve all but the mentally strongest.
--- champion players have an aura about them, especially when they're playing well (which is most of the time). Presence. How would Dusty's achievements and presence affect our younger blokes in a GF? Ditto Rance AA defender and Captain?
--- if the players knew Jake was a Leaver, how would that have affected their team-cohesion in the back 6? I'd have been pissed off with him. How much if any of the reported 'squabbling' was caused by that?
--- I've mentioned the Grimes-holding-Betts with both hands incident in Term 2 often, but did you see the look on Eddie's face afterwards? He was dumbstruck and looked bewildered and must have been thinking he wasn't going to get a break if the Umps let that go.

Then there's the mental pressure which becomes perceived pressure, then 'hearing footsteps' when a 10-point lead becomes nearly a 4-goal deficit shortly after half-time, intensified by Richmond's rabid pressure. Players have a little less time. They get HTB and HTM against them and become uncertain, hesitant, fumbly, which causes skill levels to drop off.

2) I think the MCG "home ground advantage" factor has been exaggerated. They won 2 and drew against the Pies during the year and have plans and routines in place when they play away.
Crowd noise might be a factor --- it certainly seems to be at AO when around 48-50 of 53 thousand are roaring for the Crows.

 

[Geoffa32]

Good post, thought-provoking.
1) I'd have to say say 'no'.
There are many factors. Some are obvious, eg we definitely missed Gov and Smith who add grunt and skill, and speed which we lacked on the day. It looked like Greenwood was only good for a half a game, if that, calf injury. Tex has been carrying a "turf toe" injury, apparently. CC had a PF blinder, Mackay, Douglas, Atkins had all played well in the 2 finals. All fell away in the GF. Lynch was shadowed all day --- smart move by Hardwick --- and was less effective. JJ looked soft, ineffective. The list of good players who had bad games goes on.
Then there are intangibles like
--- mindset. Hammering Richmond by 76 points in Round 6 might have done us more harm than good, and more good than harm for them. It gave us time to dismiss them and not take them seriously months later. It gave them time to reflect and act upon that loss. I knew that Richmond had improved --- blind Freddy could see it in their QF and PF wins, but I always thought they would not be able to turn around a 76-point hiding. I'd love to see stats on that, ie how many teams have lost by around 76 points only to beat their conqueror later in the same season?
--- we don;t know how disruptive the GF parade was
--- how travelling to then being at the MCG disrupts player routine
--- we had a number of young blokes under 25, suddenly faced with the cauldron, heat and noise of a pro-Richmond crowd, plus the pressure of being in an AFL GF. It would unnerve all but the mentally strongest.
--- champion players have an aura about them, especially when they're playing well (which is most of the time). Presence. How would Dusty's achievements and presence affect our younger blokes in a GF? Ditto Rance AA defender and Captain?
--- if the players knew Jake was a Leaver, how would that have affected their team-cohesion in the back 6? I'd have been pissed off with him. How much if any of the reported 'squabbling' was caused by that?
--- I've mentioned the Grimes-holding-Betts with both hands incident in Term 2 often, but did you see the look on Eddie's face afterwards? He was dumbstruck and looked bewildered and must have been thinking he wasn't going to get a break if the Umps let that go.

Then there's the mental pressure which becomes perceived pressure, then 'hearing footsteps' when a 10-point lead becomes nearly a 4-goal deficit shortly after half-time, intensified by Richmond's rabid pressure. Players have a little less time. They get HTB and HTM against them and become uncertain, hesitant, fumbly, which causes skill levels to drop off.

2) I think the MCG "home ground advantage" factor has been exaggerated. They won 2 and drew against the Pies during the year and have plans and routines in place when they play away.
Crowd noise might be a factor --- it certainly seems to be at AO when around 48-50 of 53 thousand are roaring for the Crows.

Richmond applying the same pressure as Hawthorn, Melbourne and North did to beat us is a bigger factor in that loss than anything else.

We choked under the physical pressure they applied.

Something that needs to be fixed for next season. Lever going may actually work towards this as he does his best work uncontested and these teams do not allow that to happen.




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[CrowBloke]

Richmond applying the same pressure as Hawthorn, Melbourne and North did to beat us is a bigger factor in that loss than anything else.

Agree totally.
Something happens mentally and it becomes less about players' individual skill and teamwork. No way do NM or Melb have more talent, but they got it done on the day. Might have to do with coaching.
Pyke says "OK, go out and do what we do best".
Scott, Clarkson and Goodwin more likely said: "We've got the Crows this week. This is the plan I have for them. Now, go out and execute".

Several posters have said this:

We choked under the physical pressure they applied.

I can think of 2 team GFs that I've played in (footy/squash) where we were underdogs, not expected to win and probably even a little less talented that the oppo. We made a plan, executed it and won both. They didn't choke. We did it better on the day.
I've played in other finals where the Game Day plan was less clear and we had been the best team in the Comp (one cricket final where we were undefeated, playing the 4th-placed side, batsmen smug/complacent, batted first and made 77, the end ).

In an even year like 2017, when the other team brings greater desire, team focus upon a plan and consistent unrelenting pressure, I'd say they'll win more often than not.

 

[OldCrowBloke]

You think there's no AO bias and you think I'm blind? Everyone except Adelaide and Port fans KNOW there's an AO umpiring bias. It's discussed in the commentary every time a game is played there. As I said, same with Kardinia Park and Subi. The crowd influence the umpires. .

Well, I probably shouldn't feed an obvious troll like you (53 posts in 8 years?), but you need a reality check.

2017 stats on FF vs FA for home teams:
WC get a big boost: +5.1 FF across the season for home games
Crows: +2.4 FF
Swans: +1.8 FF
Geelong: +1.7 FF
Port: +1.5 FF
GWS: -1.9 FF

So other than WC, there is not a huge differential.
Compare Richmond - free differential against interstate teams when playing at home: +0.8 FF

Difference between Crows and Richmond at home is less than 2 FF per game.

Across the 3 finals Adelaide played this year, they were -2.0 for frees for, despite 2 out of three games at home.
Richmond were +2.0 FF across their 3 finals.

I am not going to argue that umpires cost us the GF, but your argument that home town umpiring got us there is plainly rubbish.

 

[GROTTO]

A lot of people I know and plenty on here were very nervous about this game. Like a premonition that something was going to go wrong.

I think we were still a bit beat up about the club's recovery when we should have been celebrating it. Yes some things have gone wrong for this club but god damn many things have to go right to make a GF.

We all lost the mental game in this one, I hope we realise that now, and take it into setting up an enjoyable 2018 season.

The mindset of the players was shot. Something is and was off for most players. I wish there was some accountability and explanation as to why the players were mentally still in South Australia?

 

[King Elvis]

Sounds like the Lever thing was actually a major issue.

 

[Geoffa32]

Sounds like the Lever thing was actually a major issue.

Wasn't it said the guys were arguing at half time.

Makes you wonder what it was about......

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[GROTTO]

Wasn't it said the guys were arguing at half time.

Makes you wonder what it was about......

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Fascinating.

This will come out eventually. Once a player from our GF side is at an opposition Club the story will be sold and will make for a riveting interview.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Kane Cornes has become a much better player in retirement hasn't he.

 

[CrowBloke]

The mindset of the players was shot. Something is and was off for most players.

Yes, there was something intangible, something wrong for them to fold so meekly after their good start. They showed more fight and spirit against Carlton and Collingwood, and certainly against Geelong the last 2 times we played them.
Maybe they relaxed mentally (never lost after leading at 1/4 time), maybe the infighting in defense about Lever had been building and boiled over at the worst time ie on game day in a GF?
Maybe they became dispirited after the second quarter? Every time Ch7 crossed to the Crows room at 1/2 time, they looked disconnected from each other.
Maybe in 20 years time someone will write a reveal-all memoir and let us know.