Strategy What wins us our next flag?

[Fatcat08]

Matthew Lobbe. D.O.B 12.02.1989. Source Power website. Turns 29 in February. I think you must have must have misread my post. Not sure who you are referring to. Anyway, I accept your apology in advance.

The peril of having too many tabs open at the same tab i think

 

[Fatcat08]

*quietly unlikes Fatcat08's post*

And my elaborate plan to catch dlanod out works. THanks for your help Comeback Lions

 

[POBT]

I think we'll find out soon enough whether the Bulldogs and Richmond are 'the future', or just a bit of a lull after a vastly superior side in Hawthorn finally dropped off.

The one thing the best sides of the past few years have been good at is applying pressure without the ball and dealing with it with ball in hand, IMO, Hawthorn won their three flags because they applied more pressure, for longer, than their opponents and had greater composure when in possession. I think what we've seen the last two years' premiers is that defensive pressure without the elite ball use.

Every team wants to apply elite defensive pressure. The Dogs and the Tigers may have won flags based on it but they were hardly alone in being able to apply it. They just applied it most consistently across September, and particularly on grand final day, in comparison to their opponents. But other top sides showed they could apply the same pressure. The Crows, Giants, Swans and Cats all had games when they applied elite levels of pressure and looked capable of beating anyone.

To me, the next evolution of the game will be in terms of ball movement. That you need to apply elite defensive pressure is a given. Improvement in that area will be marginal IMO. But the sides that can find new and more effective ways to win and then move the football will, IMO, represent the next evolution in footy.

 

[M Malice]

Chris Fagan agrees with you POBT , he makes no secret of the fact that he wants elite ball users.

 

[POBT]

Chris Fagan agrees with you POBT , he makes no secret of the fact that he wants elite ball users.

Thinking about our list, I believe that we've got an opportunity to make our offensive point of difference players who can break down a structure.

Our "unique" players are guys who can play quickly through congestion (Zorko, Taylor, Cameron if he comes, Bundy, Cox, Beams by hand, McCluggage) and guys who kick their way through a zone (Witherden, Rich, Cox again, Allison, Mayes etc). That's a strategic advantage for us. If it works, it creates a very difficult to defend model.

Sure, those type of players need a base to build from which is why we need ball winners from the draft this year. But, for the first time in nearly two decades, I believe we've got the building blocks of a list that can threaten the opposition in mulitiple ways. The only other time we've had a half decent ball movement strategy was in 2009 when we had Drummond, Ash and Jed behind the footy. And that was a very limited, one dimensional and not particularly sustainable model. This time, it feels like we've got an opportunity to build something more sophisticated and more sustainable.

 

[M Malice]

Thinking about our list, I believe that we've got an opportunity to make our offensive point of difference players who can break down a structure.

Our "unique" players are guys who can play quickly through congestion (Zorko, Taylor, Cameron if he comes, Bundy, Cox, Beams by hand, McCluggage) and guys who kick their way through a zone (Witherden, Rich, Cox again, Allison, Mayes etc). That's a strategic advantage for us. If it works, it creates a very difficult to defend model.

Sure, those type of players need a base to build from which is why we need ball winners from the draft this year. But, for the first time in nearly two decades, I believe we've got the building blocks of a list that can threaten the opposition in mulitiple ways. The only other time we've had a half decent ball movement strategy was in 2009 when we had Drummond, Ash and Jed behind the footy. And that was a very limited, one dimensional and not particularly sustainable model. This time, it feels like we've got an opportunity to build something more sophisticated and more sustainable.

From reports the best ball user in this draft is Nick Coffield, he's projected to go in the 5-10 range by most pundits, could be available at 12 although I am really warming to Aiden Bonar, him and LDU would round out our needs for contested big bodied mids nicely.

 

[POBT]

From reports the best ball user in this draft is Nick Coffield, he's projected to go in the 5-10 range by most pundits, could be available at 12 although I am really warming to Aiden Bonar, him and LDU would round out our needs for contested big bodied mids nicely.

Probably more for the draft thread but I hope we go for two pure mids if we end up taking 1 and 12 to the draft....guys who can win their own footy. Pick 1 will be what will be but I'd love to have the option to take a Brayshaw or Clark with pick 12. Brayshaw is increasingly looking like he may be a top 10 pick which is why I'd love to get our hands on another early pick.

 

[Comeback Lions]

And my elaborate plan to catch dlanod out works. THanks for your help Comeback Lions

No worries, happy to be of assistance, any time.

 

[Comeback Lions]

The one thing the best sides of the past few years have been good at is applying pressure without the ball and dealing with it with ball in hand, IMO, Hawthorn won their three flags because they applied more pressure, for longer, than their opponents and had greater composure when in possession. I think what we've seen the last two years' premiers is that defensive pressure without the elite ball use.

Every team wants to apply elite defensive pressure. The Dogs and the Tigers may have won flags based on it but they were hardly alone in being able to apply it. They just applied it most consistently across September, and particularly on grand final day, in comparison to their opponents. But other top sides showed they could apply the same pressure. The Crows, Giants, Swans and Cats all had games when they applied elite levels of pressure and looked capable of beating anyone.

To me, the next evolution of the game will be in terms of ball movement. That you need to apply elite defensive pressure is a given. Improvement in that area will be marginal IMO. But the sides that can find new and more effective ways to win and then move the football will, IMO, represent the next evolution in footy.

I guess it's been around for a while, but ball movement out of defence, with running in numbers, has been crucial in the last two grand finals. (Sorry as a member of 3KZ's clique I can't remember past that.) Think Johannisen and Houli. (Adelaide really missed Smith in that regard). We've obviously started working on that and looked at our best this year when playing fast out of defence. What you suggest about players being able to break lines is part of that strategy. I agree with your thoughts on the ability to apply pressure, which is the potential knock on an overly tall forward line. Sure Hipwood can apply forward pressure and will gradually get better at it, but the emphasis on mobile forwards who are good below their knees and can chase hard seems like a relatively new development to me. If they can mark too then great, but contested marking is increasingly difficult with both zoning, third man up and the talent of defenders. So if marks in forward 50 are limited, then players who apply relentless pressure, create goals and also stuff up the opposition run out of defence are pretty valuable. Win-win as Richmond demonstrated, to their joy.

 

[BuntonRules]

Contested ball winners. Everywhere. This must be our draft focus. Speed of ball movement, and precision out of defence - to give our talls a fair chance because if you are slow or sloppy then goodnight. Pressure, particularly forward. Charlie Cameron is almost a need.

As to drafting talls, a huge tick to Balla and Payne is both are extremely good by foot for big men. May be enough to get them over the line.

 

[dlanod]

And my elaborate plan to catch dlanod out works. THanks for your help Comeback Lions

I know you're still a new mod, so I'll quietly remind you that I can see edits.

 

[Scubaveg]

Cloning Voss, Akker, Black, Lappin and MCRae.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[mish33]

I think there are many different possible successful forward setups and tall forwards may not be necessary, but certainly both the dogs of last year and the tiges have had elite marking and rebounding defenders who I reckon went a long way to winning them their flags. A look at the other top teams in each year pretty much confirms the need for an elite defense.

Ashbury and Rance were virtually unbeatable in finals and then Grimes had the flexibility to play tall or small. We all know Rance's qualities but I'd argue that the improvement from the other two was what made a big difference to their game. Not many teams were able to nullify their influence which made it hard to kick a winning score against them. Losing what's his face to Freo and then Wood's injury was probably a big reason why the dogs dropped off this year.

We've really lacked for decent marking defenders who can even hit a barn door, ever since Drummo but it seems like we're finally getting there so that will hopefully mean a decrease in the number of talls needed on our list.

I'm hoping that Fagan's goal for this pre season is to strengthen our team defence and get Hodge to help implement it on field.