Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)

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Grrr said:
For me Gary Ablett Snr and Leigh Matthews are the best I've seen. Royce Hart & Carey not far behind, then all the great midfielders, Ian Stewart, Robert Harvey, Riccuto, Voss, Judd etc. Forwards, mid/forwards like Ablett and Matthews are great because they can do it all. Both Danger and Martin are mainly mids who go forward, but they are not in the same league as forwards as Ablett/Matthews and about as good as them as mids. Martin is special because he is playing like a big male lion, it will take at least two others to bring him down, so he bullies his way around. At the same time he brings others into the game. Great season, and if he keeps repeating it he will keep company with those mentioned above. Similar to Fyfe a few years ago, neither will be GOAT.
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If you've been around long enough to appreciate Royce Hart then I'm I'm surprised the greatest combover in AFL hustory doesn't get a mention. I'm too young to recall much of Hart, but Bartlett was a great rover, with impressive consistency and longevity.
 
Bokonon_ said:
If you've been around long enough to appreciate Royce Hart then I'm I'm surprised the greatest combover in AFL hustory doesn't get a mention. I'm too young to recall much of Hart, but Bartlett was a great rover, with impressive consistency and longevity.
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I'm just old enough to catch the end of his career. He was ahead of his time in the way that he played. Extraordinary footy smarts.
Ironically he was also way ahead of his time as a coach. Was the first coach to genuinely employ a full on youth policy, but as usual the club ate its own and sacked him. Northey then came in and benefitted from KB's youth policy by taking us to a prelim.
 
Ricmel said:
If you confine the conversation to GOAT "midfielder" and Dusty had another two or three seasons like this one then he would come into calculations. But there is a long line ahaed of him at the moment.

I wouldn't even bother with converstaions of Carey vs Martin or Hart vs Martin. They make little sense, some people rate mids higher than KPs, some people prefer KPs. I am in the latter - even today I would take Daniher before Martin if I was starting a team.
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So another few more seasons of doing the one thing that no other player has been able to do until Martin this year and that is win almost every award there is available?
 
Martin is nowhere near the GOAT. He's in the top 2 players in the game right now but that's about it - his career so far is not a GOAT career.
He would have to stay at this level or close to it for many years to even be in the discussion - well into his 30s.

2 AA's at 26 is actually pretty poor for a GOAT candidate. He's got a long way to go. There have been plenty of players that are near automatic AA selections every year since their early 20s (guys like Pavlich for example) and you would never put him in the discussion for GOAT.
 
blitzer said:
Martin is nowhere near the GOAT. He's in the top 2 players in the game right now but that's about it - his career so far is not a GOAT career.
He would have to stay at this level or close to it for many years to even be in the discussion - well into his 30s.

2 AA's at 26 is actually pretty poor for a GOAT candidate. He's got a long way to go. There have been plenty of players that are near automatic AA selections every year since their early 20s (guys like Pavlich for example) and you would never put him in the discussion for GOAT.
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Being consistently among the handful of best players is different to being the #1 player.

Both are great achievements for different reasons.

Personally I think a few players, like Selwood and Pendlebury, get too many AAs based on team success from a young age, and without that team success it's very difficult to consistently earn multiple AAs.

Nonetheless, if Dusty has another 3 good years he'll end up with 5 AAs and that's fine.
 
Two of the best

Might shape the top 10 GOAT in the future, but gee, its early days, just enjoy him for what he is atm, a freakin star.
 

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cannot said:
he is a lot better than grigg for starters
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I agree Dusty is a combination of Haydn Bunton, Dick Reynolds, Bobby Skilton, Leigh Mathews etc but I always find it hard to separate premiership players. I just want them all to be the GOATimers! Maybe it's just Richmondy;)!
 
difficult to argue GOAT when his first great year is his 8th(?) season (out of maybe 13 or so). Would think the GOAT would be Bolt or Phelps level above the pack from fairly early on.

Great player though, and a top level season with the awards to show for it.
 
AndyLucimitis said:
Bob Pratt 1934. 150 goals in 21 games.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Bob Pratt is an interesting case study. An absolute star during the depression and missed a Grand final due to being hit by a truck stepping off a tram. The year before there were allegations of South players taking bribes to lose to Richmond. Interesting times when a roof over the head and food on the table was the first priority. Has always been a fascinating figure and I have always related him to a Tony Modra type who could jump from anywhere and did it consistently.
 
Rance2Mewtwo said:
Being consistently among the handful of best players is different to being the #1 player.

Both are great achievements for different reasons.

Personally I think a few players, like Selwood and Pendlebury, get too many AAs based on team success from a young age, and without that team success it's very difficult to consistently earn multiple AAs.

Nonetheless, if Dusty has another 3 good years he'll end up with 5 AAs and that's fine.
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I'm not trying to equate most AA's to being the best player but it is a good indicator of consistency and if you are truly the best player in the comp and you play 18+ games (Martin's been very durable too so injuries aren't an excuse) you'll get in. We all know that Martin's season this year was truly exceptional. However if you want to open the gate to GOAT discussion - there has to be quite a few exceptional seasons.

I'm not in any way implying Martin's not a terrific player. However he needs to string together quite a few elite seasons if he wants to trouble the likes of Goodes/Judd let alone Ablett and that's only looking at recent history. He also has one heck of a challenger in Dangerfield who is every chance to be regarded as the superior player at the end of their careers.

Its also quite obvious that Dangerfield's last 2 years as a combination eclipses Martin's. His goal kicking this year was quite extraordinary. You can certainly argue Martin was better this year but it wasn't by much at all and anyone who claims there was a big gap is full of it. The Brownlow would have been interesting without the suspension.
 
When leigh matthews says dusty has had the most impact from 1 player in 1 season that he has ever seen, thats goat worthy!!
 
Will be interesting to see how he backs up after team and personal success and getting paid.
Will the desire still be there or will he relax a little.
 
Boxhead_31 said:
Will be interesting to see how he backs up after team and personal success and getting paid.
Will the desire still be there or will he relax a little.
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Yep, while I'm not exactly worried, I do wonder if that 10 million dollar carrot helped to motivate him just an extra 1%.

However, he's a very confident and perceptive person, so I think pride and cementing his legacy so he can cash-in during retirement will always be on his mind. For example, apparently he has a long memory. He dominates against Melbourne every single time. His motivation seems to be quite social usually, and I believe it will come down to whether or not he has a burning desire to go down as a GOAT. But if money was the motivator, he could drop off a few percent. We'll know in a year or two I think.
 
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