Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

We won’t be paying that for Kennedy

I'm not sure. If we lose Gibbs and only bring in Kennedy then we probably won't be improving much next season.
So pick 18 this year (will be pushed out with Rockliff to 19 and possibly 20 with Motlop) versus around pick 22 next season in an apparently stronger draft. Also having pick 22ish next year is good currency for trades if we have a target next year.

 

[footyfan1978]

Fev coming back as a player-coach?
Malcolm blight bringing back the Torp?

No. Fev back as club dietian.

Soapy Vallance dna creates a clone and place kick back in vogue

 

[Soapy V]

It's not about winning the trade.
One pick gets Kennedy and a lower pick back, the other pick we take to the draft.
If Gibbs is going, I think picks 16 and 18 are better for us than just pick 10.

SOS won’t do just pick 10. He wants multiples if Gibbs goes. Crows pony up or bugger off. It’s really that simple

Picks between 30-60 whilst classed as steak knives could be very valuable to us

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I think I rate Gibbs higher than you. A goal kicking midfielder (18 goals in season) is valuable. How many goals has GWS Kennedy kicked this year? two or three.

Gibbs has kicked more goals than Collingwood's highly rated Treloar (!3), Sidebottom (16), or Geelong's Mitch Duncan (14). Harry Taylor - who spent a lot of time up forward - only kicked 22. 4 more than Gibbs.

Gibbs is an asset, you don't trade away assets unless you get a guaranteed success in return. An example would be when Hawthorn traded away that defender back in 2001 to Fremantle, and got pick 2, which they used on Hodge.

I think Gibbs is a good player.
He is no Martin, Dangerfield and he is not our number 1 midfielder.
But if he is going then he is going.
What would you accept in return?
(I know our midfield is thin on class and he has 2 years to go on his contract. Adelaide may see him as the missing piece of the puzzle too)

 

[Juddernaut08]

Gibbs is by my rating either the 3rd best or 4th best player at Carlton. You would want more than pick 16 and 18 to trade away your third best player. Have you looked at what pick 16 gets you in previous years? Not much.

I have the following rating of Carlton's best players
1- Cripps
2- Murphy
3- Docherty
4- Gibbs
5- Not there yet but should be in top 5 next year ...then next Kouta.. Charlie Curnow.

Some will have Docherty 4, Gibbs 2, Murphy 3. but these players are the cream at Carlton. You don't trade away your cream for nuts.

Coconuts can be both a nut and a cream.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We won’t be paying that for Kennedy

At the end of the day we courted him and we are obligated to get him in.

 

[Soapy V]

At the end of the day we courted him and we are obligated to get him in.

GWS hadn’t even offered him a contract for next year and he wasn’t getting a game. We won’t be paying much for him and certainly nothing inside top 20

 

[Soapy V]

I'm not sure. If we lose Gibbs and only bring in Kennedy then we probably won't be improving much next season.
So pick 18 this year (will be pushed out with Rockliff to 19 and possibly 20 with Motlop) versus around pick 22 next season in an apparently stronger draft. Also having pick 22ish next year is good currency for trades if we have a target next year.

The improvement will come from mostly the kids. The trades help develop and fill gaps

If we did do a pick 20 for Kennedy a pick 30 would be coming back

 

[juzza316]

a 2nd Round 2018 pick sound about right for Kennedy - will be early 20's.

 

[Soapy V]

a 2nd Round 2018 pick sound about right for Kennedy - will be early 20's.

Too much. Need something back

 

[DavidTeague2005]

The improvement will come from mostly the kids. The trades help develop and fill gaps

If we did do a pick 20 for Kennedy a pick 30 would be coming back

Agreed - We can't expect to clean up every draft - our currency during trade/draft period will slowly diminish as we finish higher during the season and less big name players decide to leave. Improvement in the next couple of years is going to come from the young kids who develop from 19-20 y.o to 21-22 y.o. So many good players tend to go to a whole new level at that 21-22 mark (Lever, Kelly, McGovern, Docherty, M. Crouch), and we can only hope that at least some of our kids do the same.

 

[Pafloyul]

At the end of the day we courted him and we are obligated to get him in.

Oh no, it's the Marchbank clause all over again (which didn't eventuate). It's almost as if, the more we pay, suddenly he becomes a better prospect overnight.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Oh no, it's the Marchbank clause all over again (which didn't eventuate). It's almost as if, the more we pay, suddenly he becomes a better prospect overnight.

Shove your rolling eyes where the sun don't shine.

I never suggested any such thing. He was a pick 13. He has done nothing to diminish his value. My only point is we may look at involving #16 from the Crows if the Giants won't take #27. We won't say 'sorry Matt, you're not worth coming up 11 spots even if we get something else back.'

Hardarse internet negotiators ... heroes one and all.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I wouldn’t use those picks on a KPF. 3, 16,18 will get three gun young runners. Make a big difference to our list

If Gibbs goes I’d want 10, a young player and a 3rd Pick. We still need a lot of young talent and draft picks

As I keep saying, there is more than one way to build a competitive list. Draft picks aren't the only way.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I think I rate Gibbs higher than you. A goal kicking midfielder (18 goals in season) is valuable. How many goals has GWS Kennedy kicked this year? two or three.

Gibbs has kicked more goals than Collingwood's highly rated Treloar (!3), Sidebottom (16), or Geelong's Mitch Duncan (14). Harry Taylor - who spent a lot of time up forward - only kicked 22. 4 more than Gibbs.

Gibbs is an asset, you don't trade away assets unless you get a guaranteed success in return. An example would be when Hawthorn traded away that defender back in 2001 to Fremantle, and got pick 2, which they used on Hodge.

In hindsight, yeah it was a " guaranteed " success, no draft pick is guaranteed to be anything IMO. Luke Hodge wasn't " guaranteed " to be a success as a number 2 draft pick. He was simply a guy with potential, just as all our draft picks are. I would suggest there are far too many supporters already thinking that who we have drafted and brought in over the last two years are all going to make it here. That's unlikely to happen. Some will make it, some wont.

 

[Benaly28]

Troy Menzel......bahahahaahHahah!

 

[Funk]

Kennedy - Secured
Smith - McKay: "We've got some work to do to get Devon Smith and Matt Kennedy."
Rockliffe - Fox Footy’s Jake Niall reported on Tuesday night that Rockliff met with Carlton legends Chris Judd and Stephen Kernahan as well as coach Brendan Bolton.
Kelly - you're telling me we didn't want Kelly?


Saad - Saad being the player where the evidence is circumstantial. However "
Carlton yesterday confirmed it would seek more information from Saad, and his manager, John Meesen from i50, about his intentions for 2018.

“Obviously we would be interested in talking,” Carlton football manager Andrew McKay said.

I can find a bunch of other quotes and sources but you get the idea.

As for the personal insult - isn't this a discussion board? Or is it a Carlton old boys club?

Talking to a player means they are "of interest" to chat to - and maybe if we are sufficiently impressed to proceed further.

Not that we "want" them.

Huge difference- please don't confuse the two.

 

[Funk]

Whilst we can call Smith nominating the Dons as a "failure" on Carlton's behalf... whose to say it wasn't a matter of SOS said something like "Devon, we're keen, we see a good mid-fwd role for you, we're willing to go as high as $420k-per for 3 years. What do you think?" and Devon said "no way, man, I can get $600k from the Bombers!" and SOS went "OK, good luck mate".

Showing interest and not securing does not necessarily equate to a failure.

Or potentially "Devon we'd like to chat with you and give you a medical".

"Would love to offer you a contract Devon but your knee is rooted - you won't be playing after 27 years old. Not a risk we are prepared to take".

This does not equal failure!!!!

 

[Soapy V]

As I keep saying, there is more than one way to build a competitive list. Draft picks aren't the only way.

Who said it was?

 

[Pafloyul]

As I keep saying, there is more than one way to build a competitive list. Draft picks aren't the only way.

Or that could just be you itching for some ready made talent virtually for the sake of it. I'm a 'best possible outcome' kind of person; I generally hate big trades because it's a seller's market.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Who said it was?

No one said it, but I get the feeling that you don't want it done any other way bar the draft.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Or that could just be you itching for some ready made talent virtually for the sake of it. I'm a 'best possible outcome' kind of person; I generally hate big trades because it's a seller's market.

Not for the sake of it, because I think its better than adding more kids.

 

[Soapy V]

No one said it, but I get the feeling that you don't want it done any other way bar the draft.

then your feeling is wrong.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

then your feeling is wrong.

I'm not sure it is mate.

 

[Matty411]

On the eve of Christmas, ahem Trade Period, are there any last minute gems or insights we can get Marc Shmurf 3 barass70 ? #prettyplease