Western Bulldogs (2016) vs Richmond (2017)

[Dogs_r_barking]

Richmond played the 3 top 4 teams in finals. And averaged 100.6 for and 55.5 against .
Bulldogs played 2 top 4 teams in finals, and 2 5-8 teams. And averaged 96 for and 71.5 against.

Richmond finished 3rd on the ladder. Bulldogs finished 7th.

Having injuries isnt a reason your better. It just means your depth was good, while Richmonds didnt get tested.
Bonts younger? Who cares? What does that even mean? Bulldogs last year were better because Bont was younger than Dusty this year? Wat.
Richmonds VFL was a kick off the grand final. Not much difference.
Does playing a seasoned grand finalists mean an advantage when they have shown the last few years that they cant win finals there? That goes against you, not for you.
Bulldogs also lost most their home and away games against to teams away. Richmond didnt get a chance to play away in finals.
Richmond was 17th this year for handballs. I f you think our gameplan was based of handballs, then you havn't been paying attention. Which makes sense why yout think we copied Bulldgos game plan. Lmao. Because pressure and team buy in? WTF does that even mean.

Well, I don't quite no where to start with these ramblings. You play well at your home ground, where you played all your finals. The Bulldogs are the only Victorian club to have won two interstate finals, that's right the only club. You start quoting winning score lines and then dismiss losing the VFL premiership "by just a kick" then go on to say you would have beaten the Bulldogs by four goals, but in our shite 2017 year, you didn't even beat us.

 

[ReaperX]

2016 Bulldogs had a tougher fixture because we played finals in 2015 v Richmond softer fixture because they didn't make finals in 2016.

Richmond couldn't beat the top teams away, all their finals were at their home ground, the G. Bulldogs beat West Coast, GWS, Hawthorn and Sydney as the away team. Not one final game was played at their home ground.

Bulldogs carried injuries, Richmond had an unbelievable run of no injuries.

Bulldogs won the VFL v Richmond who were runner ups.

The Bont, is a lot younger than Martin who has hit his peak.

The Bulldogs played finals seasoned teams like Sydney in the grand final as opposed to a team with no grand final experience in Adelaide.

The Bulldogs came us with a new game plan based on pressure, fast handballs and total team buy in. Richmond copied our game plan, got team buy in and had the advantage of a good ruck.

Bulldogs for me.

Agree with most of this tbh, however the bolded point is the one exception.

We borrowed ELEMENTS of the Bulldogs gameplan, but we didn't just copy it 100%, we had our own unique set-up. The main part of the Dogs plan that we took was the pressure, however the majority of our pressure was in the forward half, whereas the Dogs was a total team pressure across the ground.

The Dogs were always a big handballing team, who used their handballing games to slice through teams, whereas we were a long kicking territory based team who would bang it long, and use the pressure of the mosquito fleet to lock it into our forward half, as well as a strong press from our defensive line, often with blokes like Rance or Vlastuin patrolling the middle of the ground, waiting for the hack kicks from the opposition that came due to the aforementioned frontal pressure.

If you break it down, totally different styles of play, but both relying on strong pressure acts.

Dogs structure also had very few key position players at all, anywhere on the ground, whereas for Tigers, it was just up forward that we had a lack of KP's, we were well stocked for defensive KP's with Rance, Astbury, and Grimes playing very traditional 1st/2nd/3rd key tall back roles, and we quite often played 2 rucks until late in the season and into the finals.

In terms of competition, 2016 was very standard, it had the Top 7 separated by 8 points, then a massive drop off to 8th, a few middling teams between 9th-14th who were never realistically a chance for finals but mostly just beat each other, and then a completely woeful Bottom 4.

In 2017, there were still about 13 or 14 teams that could realistically make the finals with 6 or 7 weeks to go, and wins were at a premium, so as a season it was much tougher and more even, thus why it was more entertaining and there were so many "upsets" all the time. Also had the most draws of a H&A season for decades, with 3.

The finals series of 2017 were much more lopsided, but that's mostly due to the slog of the tough season imo. Some teams just ran out of gas at the wrong time (Sydney, West Coast), others weren't ready but slipped in due to the tightness of the year (Essendon), while the clear Top 4 teams were made up of 2 teams on a mission with clearly defined game styles (Adelaide, Richmond), and 2 flaky teams who were completely outmatched against strong styles on the days they played (Geelong, GWS).

As for the outcome of Dogs 2016 Vs. Tigers 2017, I'm not convinced that the 2016 Dogs main method of attack (out the back goals and chains of handballs creating running goals) would stand up to the defense of Richmond's 2017 team, which was very stingy and very rarely allowed "out the back" goals, or allowed teams their natural method of ball movement.

Conversely, I also feel like the young Dogs defenders of 2016 would struggle to handle the pressure of the Richmond mosquito fleet (which was taken to levels the Dogs never got to in 2016), and the chaos balls constantly coming into their half.

In a Best of 7 series, I feel like Richmond would win it 4-2 or 4-3, but in a one-off game, it could go either way, and it would depend on who performed well on the day. But if it was the 2017 Finals Series Tigers, I'd back them in to beat any football team you put in front of them.

 

[Tiger2709]

I'd like to see the tigers get close to the crows if it was at AO

We earnt the right to play our finals at home, GF is always at the G as it was for you against the Swans, would be a close game if both our GF sides met, I just think Dusty, Cotchin and Rance would maybe get us over the line.

 

[TedDougChris]

Yeah, pretty simple in the end. Bont undoubtedly wins. All hail Bont.

Was there any other conclusion ??

 

[Chuckie357]

2 brownlows ... AA Captain ... two time Coleman medalist ...
v
Bont

* 1 joint DEFAULT brownlow winner

 

[SCRAY72]

Good thread. It would be a hell of a game. Bruce and BT would burst blood vessels.

 

[Burtman]

Still see Dogs as a future Hawthorn.

Their best group is still under 25 and will all mature together. If they trade right they’ll have a few more premierships to win.

The Stringer issue has complicated matter somewhat.

We had much better spine than the dogs, they'll need a couple of key forwards and backs if they want to have another chance. They've got the mids and runners just no tall timber

 

[Lex22]

As much as people try to compare the two sides for whatever reason their very different teams.

Tigers were more traditional in defence and midfield ie an old school ruck, consistent midfield lineup, bigger defence that played one on one well.

Dogs more a team defence, more numbers rolling through the middle but lacked a few key posts that the Tigers have.

Tigers have a more mature list and with that another 1-2 reliable A Graders than we had. That said I think we were more covered for the next rung down type of players and had a little more class around the edges which made us a more unpredictable.

Who'd win? Who bloody knows. I still think their forward pressure was a lot stronger than ours and better than anything I've seen but we bat a bit deeper and did it a lot tougher.

Very different finals series. Tigers got on top of games earlier and set the tone where the Dogs arm wrestled until the games opened up.

Enjoy them individually. Both tough and deserving premiers.

 

[schmuttt]

Dogs finished 7th with the same amount of wins as the Tigers had finishing third. They also had a much harder September run against higher quality opponents. I mean no disrespect to Richmond who are deserved 2017 premiers but what the Dogs did (Winning from 7th with two interstate finals wins) may well never happen again.

 

[Tiger71]

Our players didn't take this season serious , they were still in holiday mode
Add injuries again , and a lot of post season surgeries.

But yes last year we were a much better team , our veterans all were super compared to this year where they played like old men

But 2016 dogs would be better than tigers 2017

I would say dogs 2016 at shitihad, yes would win. Tigs 2017 if played at the G, tigs would win by around 6 goals

 

[Tiger71]

Dogs finished 7th with the same amount of wins as the Tigers had finishing third. They also had a much harder September run against higher quality opponents. I mean no disrespect to Richmond who are deserved 2017 premiers but what the Dogs did (Winning from 7th with two interstate finals wins) may well never happen again.

Higher quality opponents ? Beating 1st, 2nd and 4th a easy run ? Oh let me guess, its because the G gave us magical powers to easily beat those sides ?? Also, going to love to see someone coming from 13th to winning the flag next year too.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

Well the 2017 Bulldogs beat 2017 Richmond, so I think we can surmise what might have happened against the 2016 side.

 

[schmuttt]

Higher quality opponents ? Beating 1st, 2nd and 4th a easy run ? Oh let me guess, its because the G gave us magical powers to easily beat those sides ?? Also, going to love to see someone coming from 13th to winning the flag next year too.

The top 8 was stronger in 2016 compared to 2017 imo. Like I said you are deserving premiers but I feel the Dogs were at a slightly higher level during their finals run.

 

[Ron The Bear]

we bat a bit deeper

Not sure. The Bulldogs used 39 players, which is a very high number for a premier. Richmond used 35 up to Round 17 and subsequently introduced Townsend, Graham and Broad who were all excellent on the big day, for a total of 38. Players were smashing the door down in the VFL but couldn't get in.

Adding three premiership players so late in the season has never previously been done. Hawthorn for example did not add a premiership player to the team after Round 7 during their threepeat.

 

[gavaniacono]

Leyland P76 vs. Jag E.
One was fun and innovative.
The other blows everything else away.

 

[The full package]

Or back line is elite compared to the dogs. Seriously it would never happen. Dogs won a fairytale 2016 from 7th and Richmond should have finished top but won it from 3rd. Both teams were the premiers for the respective years. I think the dogs can thank the bye for the flag.

 

[Kermit]

Higher quality opponents ? Beating 1st, 2nd and 4th a easy run ? Oh let me guess, its because the G gave us magical powers to easily beat those sides ?? Also, going to love to see someone coming from 13th to winning the flag next year too.

As opposed to us beating 1st, 3rd and 4th- as well as 6th. Both teams did an awesome job, but while it’s hardly a guarantee, we have beaten you the last 4 times we have played. Both have their own good and bad points, neither team are/were perfect.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

I would say dogs 2016 at shitihad, yes would win. Tigs 2017 if played at the G, tigs would win by around 6 goals

i actually think the mcg suits us more, weve won our last 6. and we beat the tigers in 2015 at mcg

etihad suits quick teams and we are a slowish team so it works against us

 

[Wallaby]

We beat you our last 4 games

(Off Topic) Very odd - since Docklands opened, we have played the Bulldogs 22 times - 15 times at Docklands. 4 of those were our home games. Shgows how the AFL is prepared to f### around with the fixture to maximise deals.

We are utter crap at Docklands. We've only won 34 of 84 - and considering how many interstaters we play there, it's a very bad record. Against Vic sides we are 20-36 there.

(On topic). Dunno. I do know our 1943 side would have slaughtered your bunch of lucky pretenders from 1954.

 

[DerpWerls]

Can we sub in the 2017 Bulldogs, who despite not being as good as 2016, still beat Richmond? No time machine required.

IIRC that was becuase "Classic Richmond"

I believe a Classic Richmond is mainstay menu item at KFC, that's why many forum-goers often post "Ahhh... classic Richmond. Never change."

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

B Matthew Boyd, Marcus Adams, Dale Morris

HB Easton Wood, Joel Hamling , Robert Murphy

C Lachie Hunter, Tom Liberatore, Jason Johannisen

HF Jack Macrae, Jack Redpath, Jake Stringer

F Luke Dahlhaus, Tom Boyd, Tory Dickson

Fol Jordan Roughead, Marcus Bontempelli, Mitch Wallis

I/C Liam Picken, Caleb Daniel, Shane Biggs, Matthew Suckling


crameri- susp

pity we never got our full team out on the park in 2016

 

[Snake_Baker]

An interesting match up of styles.

The Dogs definitely have the deeper list of talent, but they pretty much relied on run & gun handball, which the tigs focused on negating a year later. Neither side has a particularly dominant forward marking structure to break open the lock down.

It's a coin toss. On a fast & dry day, I would take the dogs. Wet &/or windy and I would take the tigs.

 

[DerpWerls]

(Now post Adelaide's best 22 against Broad, Castagna, Macintosh, Graham etc)

With that being said, the Dogs victory is way more impressive /freakish winning from 7th especially with trips to Perth and Sydney.

It's impossible to pick the loser.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

(Now post Adelaide's best 22 against Broad, Castagna, Macintosh, Graham etc)

With that being said, the Dogs victory is way more impressive /freakish winning from 7th especially with trips to Perth and Sydney.

It's impossible to pick the loser.

having said all that dogs vs tigs would be good to play off in the 2018 gf

 

[dean33]

Bulldogs were a great premiership team however their time is over, we can compare the tigers of 2017 with any former premiership team however why compare them to teams that were great but aren't anymore? The only thing we can say for sure is right here right now the tigers are the greatest team in the land.
Premiers 2017