Garry Lyon & Tim Watson: "Carlton aren't a big four club anymore."

[The_Reaper]

So you're saying the idea that four clubs could be bigger in support and identity than all the others doesn't exist? K bro...

No but any support classification that doesn't include Adelaide and West Coast is meaningless.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The poll options are hilarious.

Melbourne?

Really? That's a classic.

Just wait and see

 

[King Brown]

As much as it pains me to say I have to agree based purely on membership levels.

I still think the games between the old 'Big 4' still average very large crowds and have stood the test of time.

There have been shorter term rivalries that draw the crowds and we need to see if they stand up over 20-30 years.

I'd still be confident to say that in 2040 a Carlton v Richmond, Collingwood or Essendon would draw a big crowd at the G'.

Carlton are going through their painful journey the same as Richmond. Carlton are still a big club, but like Richmond of the 90s and 00s there have been too many restarts and false hopes for people to jump on board

The 2013 EF has to be the best attended elimination final ever. Carlton only had to show a skerrick of top four quality to get back there again.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Big 4 would be Collingwood, Richmond, Adelaide, WCE - maybe can throw Freo in these days

Even Essendon can't compete although their growth has been stunted by the move to Docklands.

 

[Catoggio76]

You have to wonder how much money the AFL leaves on the table in the interests of competition evenness.

A season with the top four of Essendon, Richmond, Collingwood and Carlton would rake in millions.

People say the AFL is money hungry, but let’s be honest, if they really were they’d just let the competition play out like that.

Money and Public Relations/Image drives the AFL KPI's.

 

[The_Reaper]

Big 4 would be Collingwood, Richmond, Adelaide, WCE - maybe can throw Freo in these days

Even Essendon can't compete although their growth has been stunted by the move to Docklands.

Fremantle are a bigger club than credited but they are a lot, lot smaller than the Eagles.

 

[HBF]

We're not anywhere near the big 4 at the moment.
We have so much work to do undoing past poor decisions by the footy club.

 

[Catoggio76]

Big Five

Adelaide
Collingwood
Essendon
Richmond
West Coast

Hawthorn is up there, Carlton will be in a minute's notice if they were given room to breathe.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

No but any support classification that doesn't include Adelaide and West Coast is meaningless.

That's why they're in the poll !

 

[Deep]

Hawks replaced Carlton 5 years ago

 

[chunkylover53]

Yeah we're definitely not. As someone said that once some success comes they will come out of the woodwork.

Richmond are about to become the biggest club in Aus. Essendon are gathering momentum and Collingwood are always there. I'd say it's a Big 3.

 

[King Brown]

No but any support classification that doesn't include Adelaide and West Coast is meaningless.

Why?

It’s entirely a Victorian concept.

It’s a group of clubs that can reliably host games at the MCG against any of the other group regardless of either of their ladder positions.

None of the other Victorian clubs can meet that definition. There are big non-Vic clubs but their support is almost wholly limited to their state.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you could find more Carlton fans in Queensland than Adelaide fans in Victoria.

 

[JayJ20]

Collingwood
West Coast
Essendon
Richmond
Adelaide

I think that's the order at the moment.

Hawthorn are successful, but I wouldn't say that they are a bigger club then the other 5 teams.

Carlton have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Essendon is getting "wind assisted" help from AFL HQ after the drugs disgrace. How anyone doesn't see through the Gerballs like Public Relations push for Essendon is a nuff nuff.

Does the AFL seriously think people are that stupid?

Which brings me to one thing, is the AFL too focused on PR Spin and not enough on actually providing a good product (i.e. real footy) these days?

Spot on with your first comment. Certainly the media have been well paid. You ask if the AFL think people are that stupid? I would say they know it. For some reason the AFL keep serving up an inferior product but the public keep turning up in droves. They don't realise they are being conned. To answer your third question, all the AFL do is PR, they couldn't give a s**t about providing a good product.

 

[blitzer]

Its hard to say whether Carlton are a big four club but its clear beyond a doubt that they are a bottom four club.

 

[Magma]

and victorians mock our shitfights

 

[Franc de Borges]

Couldn't care less. Coming from those intellectual giants it means even less again.

Far more concerned about making the top 4 again than being considered part of a big 4.

 

[falcons2]

It pains me to say Carlton are still big 4. But with great pleasure I'd say they are of little significance. Favourable fixturing has helped keep attendances up again in 2017 finishing 4th behind Richmond, Collingwood and Essendon but 5k average behind them.
If they make big finals I'd expect a similar swell like Richmond created but instead of rabid fanaticism it would be gloating arrogance.
Long live Carlton's failures.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

Just a historical Melbourne thing.

North, Hawthorn and Footscray were 1925 expansion clubs.

Geelong were a country club.

Fitzroy always struggled with support because they were sandwiched geographically by bigger clubs.

St Kilda and South Melbourne hugely unsuccessful on field.

Melbourne had a small, apathetic supporter base from outside the large working class and no geographic suburban area.

Essendon, Collingwood, Carlton and Richmond were the bigger clubs, hence the big 4. That's all it is.

Swans “hugely unsuccessful on field”? They have 10 Premierships in their history - 8 if you don’t count the modern era. St Kilda have one. So its a bit unfair to be lumping them both in the same boat.

 

[The_Reaper]

Swans “hugely unsuccessful on field”? They have 10 Premierships in their history - 8 if you don’t count the modern era. St Kilda have one. So its a bit unfair to be lumping them both in the same boat.

If you count VFA Geelong has 20 premierships.

 

[Carlton_Blues]

It pains me to say Carlton are still big 4.

.............................

Long live Carlton.....

In my view Carlton remain one of the Big 4 clubs, they’re simply in hibernation. They’re a Big 4 club that isn’t traveling well at the minute, but I’d liken them to a sleeping giant much like Richmond.

 

[footyfanatic09]

I agree with them, Hawks in blues out. Melb is the home of footy , not Adel or Perth or Geelong or bris.

We're the big clubs with the best membership in the home of footy. There it is !

 

[The Unforgiven]

Is "Big 4" defined as a club's capacity to be big, i.e. a static measurement, or is it redefined every so often as to be relevant with the dynamic figures seen in real time?

I've always seen Carlton as "Big 4", but I've struggled to not include Hawthorn in recent times. I think Hawks' near-merger with Melbourne in the mid '90s damaged its cred for many years until the recent string of flags.

The whole Big 4 concept is rather arbitrary and contrived. Nonetheless, for those supporters whom align themselves with a Big 4 side, it's obviously relevant even if only to a superficial level.

 

[BTs Nana]

So you're saying the idea that four clubs could be bigger in support and identity than all the others doesn't exist? K bro...

What we are saying "bro" is that the whole concept of Big 4 isn't discussed outside of those clubs.

If the other clubs in Melbourne talk about it then they have a serious case of small man syndrome.

In short: it's just a circlejerk of clubs who want to project some kind of superiority.

Conclusion- No-one else gives a *

 

[Bald]

Hawthorn are so far beyond any other team it isn't even funny.

They've won a flag in every decade since the 60s. What they're doing for the game is ridiculous, with names like Lewis, Mitchell and Hodge moving to other clubs to support them, assistant coaches have all played finals (with two premierships and an additional grand final appearance - correct me if there's more..)

They're sitting at 70-80k members..

If there's a top 4, then Hawthorn aren't in it, they're above it..