Expansion Dreaming Out Loud: AFL’s Third WA Club (and Solving Gold Coast’s Issue)

[GremioPower]

Before commenting, please, remember this is a thought exercise. It is not something AFL would do any time soon. So, if you don’t like the idea at all, there is no need to engage in the exercise. Still, it is supposed to be a feasible proposal, so the debate should be on its pros and cons.

P.S.: Apparently, the name 'St Kilda' is not a reference to any "saint" (there is no "Saint Kilda," as I supposed), but it is a reference to a vessel, which, in its turn, was named after a Scottish archipelago (whose name's origin is controversial). There is a movie on the archipelago - "St Kilda, Britain's Lonliest Isle" (I am sure there is a joke in the title waiting to be found...): .
Now, I am in doubt whether "St" would/should actually be pronounced at all. I edited the club's name below accordingly.


Abstract: Perth’s Footy Market is already able to sustain three clubs and it is growing. Another team there would help diminish travel costs, while adding extra fuel into a place which already is mad about football. Expansion is out of the table, 18 clubs seem to be the right number for AFL at the moment. The third WA team would come on the expense of merging St Kilda with Gold Coast. The merger would help settling AFL presence in Gold Coast, while aiding St Kilda with its financial struggles. Such a merger, however, would attempt avoiding some mistakes made in the Fitzroy-Brisbane case (e.g., see this post).


This post is divided into three more parts that follow below.

 

[GremioPower]

St Kilda-Gold Coast Football Club

Club’s full name: St Kilda-Gold Coast Football Club
Club’s short name: The Gold-Kilda Saints (KG)
Colours: red, white, black, and gold
Guernsey: current St Kilda’s
Badge: current St Kilda’s, but with a golden trim around it, and “St. K. G. C.” written on top, also in gold.
Home grounds: Metricon (Gold Coast); Etihad (Melbourne)
Home games: 7, in Gold Coast (mainly against Victorian clubs and Brisbane); and 4, in Melbourne (mainly against non-Victorian clubs, except the Lions).
Home Finals: against Victorian clubs, in Gold Coast; otherwise, in Melbourne.
Reserve League: club would decide between the VFL (Sandringham Zebras) or the NEAFL.
First Administration: current St Kilda’s, which would decide who from Gold Coast Suns they would like to keep.
First Squad: see post below.

- Considering away games, the Kilda-Gold Saints would play a minimum of 6 and a maximum of 13 games in Melbourne per H&A season.

 

[GremioPower]

West Perth Football Club

The West Perth Falcons are the oldest club in West Australia, and their HQ is now in the opposite side of Perth from Freo. Falcons-Dockers could become a “North v South” derby in Perth.

West Perth Falcons, West Coast Eagles, and Western Bulld... err... scratch the Dogs. Back to the point, the name “West Perth Falcons” clashes well against “West Coast Eagles.” It would add some good silliness to feed the rivalry – which could become similar to Port Adelaide v Adelaide (“old v new”). It would make West Coast look like a copy of the new team.

A third WA team would reduce the mileage for the clubs there, levelling a bit more the playing field around the league.

Club is red and blue, but it does not clash against neither the Bulldogs nor the Demons. It should be able to keep its colours, guernsey, song, and nickname. The badge, though, could be so much better. I would change it.

 

[GremioPower]

Squads

I expect the Falcons to have a weaker squad then the new Saints, but that is part of the burden of being an expansion side.

- Before free agency and trading period:
1) West Perth - Expansion Draft (16 players)
The other sixteen teams in the league would protect 22 players from their lists. West Perth, then, would pick one unprotected player from each club.

2a) Gold-Kilda Saints – Retention Draft (16 players)
The KG Saints would pick sixteen players among those from STK and GC players’ lists.

2b) West Perth – Retention Draft
The Falcons would be able to pick any players from its WAFL squad list.

3) Falcons and Saints List Draft
Alternating picks, starting with the Falcons, WP Falcons and KG Saints would pick players from the STK and GC lists.
Teams could go on picking up until completing the list of 44 players.
Players not picked would become DFA, and any obligation from their remaining contracts would be shared between the Saints and the Falcons.

- Free Agency , Trading and DFA periods would happen as usual;

- The National Draft
4a) West Perth
The Falcons would get the first pick in each of the 6 National Draft rounds.
4b) Gold-Kilda
The Saints would inherit every other pick by STK and GC (#1, #3, #5, etc.).

- The National Draft order would be updated accordingly.

 

[saintkildaman]

Yep get it done Gill

 

[gtrxuone]

West Perth Football

The West Perth Falcons are the oldest club in West Australia, and their HQ is now in the opposite side of Perth from Freo. Falcons-Dockers could become a “North v South” derby in Perth.

West Perth Falcons, West Coast Eagles, and Western Bulld... err... scratch the Dogs. Back to the point, the name “West Perth Falcons” clashes well against “West Coast Eagles.” It would add some good silliness to feed the rivalry – which could become similar to Port Adelaide v Adelaide (“old v new”). It would make West Coast look like a copy of the new team.

A third WA team would reduce the mileage for the clubs there, levelling a bit more the playing field around the league.

Club is red and blue, but it does not clash against neither the Bulldogs nor the Demons. It should be able to keep its colours, guernsey, song, and nickname. The badge, though, could be so much better. I would change it.

Gremio West Perth back in the late 1970's tried to join an expanded VFL competition. On there own and then a second time with arch rival East Perth.They have just finished an upgrade on there home ground,members facilities. And started there own online radio station Falcons Radio.
Like your thinking on Gold Coast.There sucking the AFL dry and will stay the comps easybeats.

 

[Benny78]

It makes sense.

They have a state half the size of Australia they should at least get half the teams in a Victorian sport.

 

[Donakebab]

What about the The Port Shanghai Coal Powers?

 

[TedDougChris]

Ignoring all the other significant issues posed, why the * would anyone in WA support a hybrid Victorian-Gold Coast-WAFL abomination ??

 

[JVseven]

I like that shortening the team name is done by just dropping the ‘Saint’ from Saint Kilda.

 

[TedDougChris]

I like that shortening the team name is done by just dropping the ‘Saint’ from Saint Kilda.

Least of the issues with the proposal really, but the suggested names are appalling....

 

[GremioPower]

Seriously though, this is terrible and you are probably a constant disappointment to your parents.

I would need to ask them. I am not afraid of having bad ideas. It is better than having no ideas at all!

 

[MarkCatsFan]

Port fans.



Culture.

 

[Shoei]

Before commenting, please, remember this is a thought exercise. It is not something AFL would do any time soon. So, if you don’t like the idea at all, there is no need to engage in the exercise. Still, it is supposed to be a feasible proposal, so the debate should be on its pros and cons.


Abstract: Perth’s Footy Market is already able to sustain three clubs and it is growing. Another team there would help diminish travel costs, while adding extra fuel into a place which already is mad about football. Expansion is out of the table, 18 clubs seem to be the right number for AFL at the moment. The third WA team would come on the expense of merging Saint Kilda with Gold Coast. The merger would help settling AFL presence in Gold Coast, while aiding Saint Kilda with its financial struggles. Such a merger, however, would attempt avoiding some mistakes made in the Fitzroy-Brisbane case (e.g., see this post).


This post is divided into three more parts that follow below.

No it's not. People keep spouting this s**t year after year without any basis in reality other than "hur dur WA loves football + is so big so = more teams".

West Perth Falcons? So you're going to pick a team that averages 1700 people to a game and promote them to an AFL side? Not only that, you're picking a team that (barely) represents one part of the Perth metro area (Joondalup) and expect them to be able to compete in a market saturated by the West Coast Eagles. There is absolutely no interest in any WAFL club, their historical identities mean nothing. The younger generations that would be required to follow them would barely know they exist right now and the older fans have been separated from them so long that they wouldn't care.

This idea that if you promote them to the AFL you'll awaken this hidden massive supporter base that were just waiting to dump their allegiances to other teams and flock back to them is completely bizarre.

The Dockers got by on the notion that they united ""Fremantle", an area somewhat individual from the Perth Metro area and with a pretty unique and amazing footballing history. It offered a Ying to the Eagles Yang and a lot of people from the Fremantle area went to them. Even then it took the Dockers the best part of a decade to stabilize on and off the field.

You promote any WAFL team to AFL status and all you'll be doing is creating another financial basket case the AFL will spend the next 20 years bailing out while it flounders.

And your other suggest is to merge another Victorian club with a small fanbase with another Queensland club with little to no fans in an area where they couldn't give a s**t about football (or sports in general) to create another Frankenstein hybrid VicQueens? Yes, it's worked so well for the Lions let's do it again?!

Terrible idea.

 

[Deep]

Why would you merge St Kilda and not North or WB? What purpose do these two teams serve that St Kilda does not?

Also let's pretend we are in fairyland and this did happen would this team be founded 1873 like the Saints or 2009 like GC

 

[GremioPower]

... So, if you don’t like the idea at all, there is no need to engage in the exercise...

Thank you for reading all before disliking it!

 

[Shoei]

So you want an echo-chamber to circle jerk in.

Noted.

 

[MarkCatsFan]

Thank you for reading all before disliking it!

That's not how forums work.

 

[Deep]

No it's not. People keep spouting this s**t year after year without any basis in reality other than "hur dur WA loves football + is so big so = more teams".

West Perth Falcons? So you're going to pick a team that averages 1700 people to a game and promote them to an AFL side? Not only that, you're picking a team that (barely) represents one part of the Perth metro area (Joondalup) and expect them to be able to compete in a market saturated by the West Coast Eagles. There is absolutely no interest in any WAFL club, their historical identities mean nothing. The younger generations that would be required to follow them would barely know they exist right now and the older fans have been separated from them so long that they wouldn't care.

This idea that if you promote them to the AFL you'll awaken this hidden massive supporter base that were just waiting to dump their allegiances to other teams and flock back to them is completely bizarre.

The Dockers got by on the notion that they united ""Fremantle", an area somewhat individual from the Perth Metro area and with a pretty unique and amazing footballing history. It offered a Ying to the Eagles Yang and a lot of people from the Fremantle area went to them. Even then it took the Dockers the best part of a decade to stabilize on and off the field.

You promote any WAFL team to AFL status and all you'll be doing is creating another financial basket case the AFL will spend the next 20 years bailing out while it flounders.

And your other suggest is to merge another Victorian club with a small fanbase with another Queensland club with little to no fans in an area where they couldn't give a s**t about football (or sports in general) to create another Frankenstein hybrid VicQueens? Yes, it's worked so well for the Lions let's do it again?!

Terrible idea.

A Norwood side is just about the only local side that may actually be able to transition decently to the top league. 10000 members in year one for mine...

 

[Deathly]

@OP

Is it computer night at the mental asylum?

 

[GremioPower]

Why would you merge St Kilda and not North or WB? What purpose do these two teams serve that St Kilda does not?

Also let's pretend we are in fairyland and this did happen would this team be founded 1873 like the Saints or 2009 like GC

Good question. Thank you.

Those would be also candidates. I didn't choose them, basically, because of Hobart (NM) and Ballarat (Dogs). Those teams are already doing an effort to go beyond their traditional homes. The Saints, as far as I know, is not.

One could argue that would be better just get rid of the Suns, and make STK play four home games in Gold Coast instead. This would be closer to what Hawks and Roos do in Tasmania.

I would agree it is a better option, but the AFL seems poised to have a club there at all costs. That's why I made the inverse: 7 games in QSL; 4, in Vic. Moreover, the merger just followed a precedent set by the league. It seems something AFL could actually accept, rather than folding the Suns, and replacing it with some Saints games in Gold Coast.

 

[GremioPower]

That's not how forums work.

I know. :-D

 

[GremioPower]

So you want an echo-chamber to circle jerk in.

Noted.

Yeah. Since there is no middle ground between fully agreeing and absolute disagreement, that is exactly what I am looking for. Thank you for noticing it...

 

[GremioPower]

It makes sense.

They have a state half the size of Australia they should at least get half the teams in a Victorian sport.

18/2=3

Right...

P.S.: Aussie football is a Victorian sport as much as associaton football is an English sport; i.e., not at all.

 

[GremioPower]

No it's not. People keep spouting this s**t year after year without any basis in reality other than "hur dur WA loves football + is so big so = more teams".

West Perth Falcons? So you're going to pick a team that averages 1700 people to a game and promote them to an AFL side? Not only that, you're picking a team that (barely) represents one part of the Perth metro area (Joondalup) and expect them to be able to compete in a market saturated by the West Coast Eagles. There is absolutely no interest in any WAFL club, their historical identities mean nothing. The younger generations that would be required to follow them would barely know they exist right now and the older fans have been separated from them so long that they wouldn't care.

This idea that if you promote them to the AFL you'll awaken this hidden massive supporter base that were just waiting to dump their allegiances to other teams and flock back to them is completely bizarre.

The Dockers got by on the notion that they united ""Fremantle", an area somewhat individual from the Perth Metro area and with a pretty unique and amazing footballing history. It offered a Ying to the Eagles Yang and a lot of people from the Fremantle area went to them. Even then it took the Dockers the best part of a decade to stabilize on and off the field.

You promote any WAFL team to AFL status and all you'll be doing is creating another financial basket case the AFL will spend the next 20 years bailing out while it flounders.

And your other suggest is to merge another Victorian club with a small fanbase with another Queensland club with little to no fans in an area where they couldn't give a s**t about football (or sports in general) to create another Frankenstein hybrid VicQueens? Yes, it's worked so well for the Lions let's do it again?!

Terrible idea.

Now, this is the kind of post I was wishing to see. Thanks, Shoei.

As you have said, the Dockers are settled in Fremantle, holding the Southern part of Perth. In truth, I am expecting that the Eagles would suffer the most from a third team in the Northern part. Your concern is comprehensible. Still, Eagles would suffer only if the new team is able to hold its own. If they fold, it would be because West Coast do not let any space left for another team to grow. You say that there is no such a space, so there is nothing to worry about (from a West Coast point-of-view, at least).

However, Perth has doubled its size in the last thirty years, and added 1/4 of its current population in the last 15 years. It means that a lot of new people is getting into the region. Maybe they have old allegiances or no interest in footy, but there is certainly potential to growth. It is not that the market there is "already saturated." Probably, the new team would have difficulty at the beginning, but that is how any business work. It would be a risk, for sure, but one that would have more chance of succeeding then trying to establish a team in Queensland - just to give an example.

Why West Perth? It is a traditional team in a new part of the town. If any club can pull this off, it would be them. The effect that West Perth entering AFL would cause on their old traditional fan base and on those from their new region is unknown. Its entrance would be meaningful in itself, though. I suspect that a new club from scratch would have more trouble appealing to people than West Perth would. Every new barracker inherit his club's History. West Perth would be able to carry its own into the AFL with them. This not something to be easily dismissed as irrelevant. Besides, I am not worried about their numbers in WAFL, because AFL is a totally different beast. It would be a whole new ballgame.

On the proposed merger, I think the Fitzroy-Brisbane thing wasn't done properly. If Fitzroy had simply moved to Brisbane, I struggle to see how different it would be from what AFL called "a merger." The Lions should have kept a strong presence in Melbourne, and the name "Fitzroy" should have never been abandoned. I simply tried to avoid those mistakes while actually merging Saints and Suns. Besides, I have said above:

(...)
One could argue that would be better just get rid of the Suns, and make STK play four home games in Gold Coast instead. This would be closer to what Hawks and Roos do in Tasmania.

I would agree it is a better option, but the AFL seems poised to have a club there at all costs. That's why I made the inverse: 7 games in QSL; 4, in Vic. Moreover, the merger just followed a precedent set by the league. It seems something AFL could actually accept, rather than folding the Suns, and replacing it with some Saints games in Gold Coast.

Would my point be a bit more clear now?