Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[teknodeejay]

Fair to say Boekhorst won't be buying any tickets to Carlton games because he's spent all the money on tickets on himself.

 

[LanceRomance]

Fair to say Boekhorst won't be buying any tickets to Carlton games because he's spent all the money on tickets on himself.

Not much has come out about why he got delisted..

 

[Captain Cripps]

Not much has come out about why he got delisted..

Yea, the club were very quiet. Maybe some posters are in the know

 

[mjonc43]

After having a cheeky look through the AFL Prospectus, I had the idea to break our current list down into five categories based on where a player's potential/current standing sits - or their current projected potential.

This will obviously differ depending on how you each rate our list and the players, but I think there'd be a fair consensus about the amount of 'Elite' talent we have on the list. A LOT of potential star power in this young list, and rightly exciting.

Bit harsh on Wright.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Captain Cripps]

I think this fits the thread but I have a proposal
If 17 year old can’t be drafted
Then why not have the option to draft the under ager and then during season once player turns 18 then he is eligible to play seconds or seniors

 

[Matty411]

Bit harsh on Wright.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Wrighty was probably the one that I was most uncertain about. Could easily be considered above average and has been in our bests plenty of times but at the end of the day is a role player and will likely be (should be) overtaken by a player with more elite traits and talent in the year/s to come.

Love what he's been able to do and still Best 22 for mine, but I would hope for our team's sake that by Round 1, 2019 he isn't i.e. others have forced him out and come on (Pickett, Garlett, LeBois)

 

[Captain Cripps]

Surely kicking goals the last 2 years is worth something

 

[CJMB]

Boek has informed the NB that he is unavailable for the following rounds in 2018:

1-4 (Port Fairy, Golden Plains, Pitch, Babylon music festivals)
8 (Goovin the Moo)
12 (Melbourne Jazz Festival)

He is also unavailable for round 10 as he has some cheap tickets to the Comedy Club and and rounds 13-15 as he has enrolled in a moustache sculpting course....

He also won't be at training for the next month or so between Meredith, MONA FOMA, and wherever he is for NYE out of Falls/BTV/etc. Then there's Dark Mofo, Bluesfest, Splendour, Boogie, Party in the Paddock....

 

[ferrisb]

OK, maybe we've gone too far. I feel like this could be unfair character assassination of poor Boeky.

So far it's all been innuendo and we have no actual proof that he even likes listening to blues music....

 

[LCBlues95]

Wrighty was probably the one that I was most uncertain about. Could easily be considered above average and has been in our bests plenty of times but at the end of the day is a role player and will likely be (should be) overtaken by a player with more elite traits and talent in the year/s to come.

Love what he's been able to do and still Best 22 for mine, but I would hope for our team's sake that by Round 1, 2019 he isn't i.e. others have forced him out and come on (Pickett, Garlett, LeBois)

Given better delivery inside 50, i'm pretty Wright could kick alot more. To kick the goals with what was in front of him for a small forward is pretty bloody good to be honest.

 

[Matty411]

Given better delivery inside 50, i'm pretty Wright could kick alot more. To kick the goals with what was in front of him for a small forward is pretty bloody good to be honest.

The value of Wrighty - I think - has been his consistency relative to the rest of the team (most of) in the early years of this reset. Kicking goals when we weren't kicking many will probably always go underappreciated. However his 1 year contract (iirc) is the best indication of his value, I'm afraid.

 

[Captain Cripps]

Given better delivery inside 50, i'm pretty Wright could kick alot more. To kick the goals with what was in front of him for a small forward is pretty bloody good to be honest.

Wright goes all Wright

 

[StandByyourMan]

Have you checked his instagram profile? Some ammunition in there haha

I counted three strikes too

 

[Malifice]

Reckon we're in for some pain next year sadly. No Gibbs and no Docherty is going to hurt. Hopefully this isnt the year that Simpson drops off or we could be in for another bottom three finish.

I dont mind too much. I want us to remain competitive. Still need another 4-5 elite talents on our list, and 2018/19 drafts (low 1st and 2 x 2nds next year) and 2019 F/A period (Shiel/ Kelly) should see us finish off the list ready for 2020.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Reckon we're in for some pain next year sadly. No Gibbs and no Docherty is going to hurt. Hopefully this isnt the year that Simpson drops off or we could be in for another bottom three finish.

I dont mind too much. I want us to remain competitive. Still need another 4-5 elite talents on our list, and 2018/19 drafts (low 1st and 2 x 2nds next year) and 2019 F/A period (Shiel/ Kelly) should see us finish off the list ready for 2020.

How many elite talents do you think Richmond, Bulldogs, Hawthorn etc. had / have on their list? To be honest if we don't have the bulk of our rebuild already on the list I think we are headed for trouble, and a rebuild of a rebuild. Sure, some won't come on as we would like and we will continually add to our list (should have access to an elite talent in next years draft) but I think you are overestimating the amount of elite talent that premiership teams have.

Gibbs and Docherty out will hurt short term but we do have a big bunch of players with potential for big improvement next year, we won't make finals but I think we can do better than this year.

 

[Malifice]

How many elite talents do you think Richmond, Bulldogs, Hawthorn etc. had / have on their list? To be honest if we don't have the bulk of our rebuild already on the list I think we are headed for trouble, and a rebuild of a rebuild. Sure, some won't come on as we would like and we will continually add to our list (should have access to an elite talent in next years draft) but I think you are overestimating the amount of elite talent that premiership teams have.

I think we do have the bulk done. From here on in it's about adding cream and plugging gaps with quality. We'll have a top 3 pick 2018 (plus 2 x 2nd rounders) and another dip in the 2019 draft (plus a F/A - preferably a gun mid). From there we need to grab 4-5 elite/ A grade players to add to the current list.

That plus a few seasons of getting these blokes playing together. Weve had 42 list changes in 3 years, and most of the list is very (very) young and not used to playing together. Its going to take a few years of developlment and list gelling to come together.

Im not seeing more than half a dozen list changes at the end of the year. From here its about continuity and adding cream and top end talent.

Gibbs and Docherty out will hurt short term but we do have a big bunch of players with potential for big improvement next year, we won't make finals but I think we can do better than this year.

Youre dreaming if you're thinking finals. Bottom three for mine.

42 list changes in 3 years, and bringing in a bunch of kids with 0-30 games to their names, plus losing Gibbs and Docherty for the year is going to hurt.

Its OK though. It's a journey and all that.

 

[Jimmae]

Does anyone have any info or news about possible NB recruits?

Is Boek staying, are the hickmonts getting an invitation or is there any new Cam O”Sea types?

One of the Hickmott boys wasn't draft eligible this year, and I think you'll be seeing both of them and Boekhorst in the WAFL ranks next year.

 

[Captain Cripps]

Reckon we're in for some pain next year sadly. No Gibbs and no Docherty is going to hurt. Hopefully this isnt the year that Simpson drops off or we could be in for another bottom three finish.

I dont mind too much. I want us to remain competitive. Still need another 4-5 elite talents on our list, and 2018/19 drafts (low 1st and 2 x 2nds next year) and 2019 F/A period (Shiel/ Kelly) should see us finish off the list ready for 2020.

Hasn’t a more offensive game plan be mentioned ?
I can only see on the up personally
One goes out
Another one in
Kennedy etc

 

[Coona Blues]

I think we do have the bulk done. From here on in it's about adding cream and plugging gaps with quality. We'll have a top 3 pick 2018 (plus 2 x 2nd rounders) and another dip in the 2019 draft (plus a F/A - preferably a gun mid). From there we need to grab 4-5 elite/ A grade players to add to the current list.

That plus a few seasons of getting these blokes playing together. Weve had 42 list changes in 3 years, and most of the list is very (very) young and not used to playing together. Its going to take a few years of developlment and list gelling to come together.

Im not seeing more than half a dozen list changes at the end of the year. From here its about continuity and adding cream and top end talent.



Youre dreaming if you're thinking finals. Bottom three for mine.

42 list changes in 3 years, and bringing in a bunch of kids with 0-30 games to their names, plus losing Gibbs and Docherty for the year is going to hurt.

Its OK though. It's a journey and all that.

If the majority of our key players stay fit, there is no way in hell we are bottom 3. Way too much "organic" improvement and too
many decent (at worst) additions.

This will not be another dedicated development year. We will "blood" a couple, but spots will need to be earned. Expect our
best 22 to play more often than not.

There is growing pressure to win games. Plenty from club, supporters and outside, but most from Bolts and the playing group.
I will stop short of declaring finals, but not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[Sector 7G]

I think we do have the bulk done. From here on in it's about adding cream and plugging gaps with quality. We'll have a top 3 pick 2018 (plus 2 x 2nd rounders) and another dip in the 2019 draft (plus a F/A - preferably a gun mid). From there we need to grab 4-5 elite/ A grade players to add to the current list.

That plus a few seasons of getting these blokes playing together. Weve had 42 list changes in 3 years, and most of the list is very (very) young and not used to playing together. Its going to take a few years of developlment and list gelling to come together.

Im not seeing more than half a dozen list changes at the end of the year. From here its about continuity and adding cream and top end talent.



Youre dreaming if you're thinking finals. Bottom three for mine.

42 list changes in 3 years, and bringing in a bunch of kids with 0-30 games to their names, plus losing Gibbs and Docherty for the year is going to hurt.

Its OK though. It's a journey and all that.

Kind of like Bulldogs losing their captain at the end of 2014. They were tipped to finish last by many in 2015 but players like Stringer stepped up and they made finals.

 

[Jimmae]

We averaged 2.7 first year players per game last year, alongside an extremely slow start in Pickett's first 7 games, so effectively 3 players in any given game last year either weren't playing anywhere near an AFL standard, or at least cost the other players about 15 minutes of time on the bench, or about 3-5 rotations per player.

Look at what Charlie, Jack, Weitering, even Cuningham and McKay were able to accomplish in their second year in terms of rotations and performance and recognise that we're likely to be seeing that same sort of uptick from SPS, Williamson, Fisher, Pickett, Macreadie and Polson with any luck.

I don't think anyone coming into this pre-season is as far back as what Pickett was at this time last year, while Lang is going to be a senior contributor right away, and Kennedy and Garlett are going to come on in leaps and bounds. That eases the burden on the rest of the senior group, which means they play a few less minutes, and play their footy a fair bit sharper.

I think that honestly outweighs the loss of both Gibbs and Docherty, but the rest is down to tactics and how much the rest of the competition improves.

 

[ParapMarkets]

I think we do have the bulk done. From here on in it's about adding cream and plugging gaps with quality. We'll have a top 3 pick 2018 (plus 2 x 2nd rounders) and another dip in the 2019 draft (plus a F/A - preferably a gun mid). From there we need to grab 4-5 elite/ A grade players to add to the current list.

That plus a few seasons of getting these blokes playing together. Weve had 42 list changes in 3 years, and most of the list is very (very) young and not used to playing together. Its going to take a few years of developlment and list gelling to come together.

Im not seeing more than half a dozen list changes at the end of the year. From here its about continuity and adding cream and top end talent.

Fair enough. I agree that I think it is mostly about getting the currently listed players to grow together as a unit (which admittedly will take some), with some free agents to complete the list (I strongly agree on Shiel - it would be awesome to see him in navy blue). I still disagree on your numbers, but maybe your definition of "elite" is more generous than mine.

 

[ParapMarkets]

We averaged 2.7 first year players per game last year, alongside an extremely slow start in Pickett's first 7 games, so effectively 3 players in any given game last year either weren't playing anywhere near an AFL standard, or at least cost the other players about 15 minutes of time on the bench, or about 3-5 rotations per player.

Look at what Charlie, Jack, Weitering, even Cuningham and McKay were able to accomplish in their second year in terms of rotations and performance and recognise that we're likely to be seeing that same sort of uptick from SPS, Williamson, Fisher, Pickett, Macreadie and Polson with any luck.

I don't think anyone coming into this pre-season is as far back as what Pickett was at this time last year, while Lang is going to be a senior contributor right away, and Kennedy and Garlett are going to come on in leaps and bounds. That eases the burden on the rest of the senior group, which means they play a few less minutes, and play their footy a fair bit sharper.

I think that honestly outweighs the loss of both Gibbs and Graham, but the rest is down to tactics and how much the rest of the competition improves.

I agree 100%. We aren't going to be "carrying" first year players plus the likes of Pickett next year. Dow and O'Brien will hopefully get quite a few games but it is going to be difficult for them, much more difficult than it was for SPS, Fisher, Williamson and Macreadie last year.

 

[Malifice]

If the majority of our key players stay fit, there is no way in hell we are bottom 3. Way too much "organic" improvement and too
many decent (at worst) additions.

Not sure if you noticed, but one of our key players just did a knee, and we traded another out.

Were the lowest scoring side in the comp by a long way, have a midfield of Murphy, then a bunch of kids, and a solid defence (also young, and lacking Docherty).

Dont get too optimistic just yet mate. Its a development year next year. Thats about it.

There is growing pressure to win games. Plenty from club, supporters and outside, but most from Bolts and the playing group.

There should be an expectation of winning all games. But there is zero pressure on Bolton, and that wont change if we finish bottom three (likely).

We know where we're at, and were not in finals contention yet.

I will stop short of declaring finals, but not beyond the realms of possibility.

It is beyond the realms of possibility if we're being objective. 5 wins is about right.

 

[Mr Blonde]

How many elite talents do you think Richmond, Bulldogs, Hawthorn etc. had / have on their list? To be honest if we don't have the bulk of our rebuild already on the list I think we are headed for trouble, and a rebuild of a rebuild. Sure, some won't come on as we would like and we will continually add to our list (should have access to an elite talent in next years draft) but I think you are overestimating the amount of elite talent that premiership teams have.

Gibbs and Docherty out will hurt short term but we do have a big bunch of players with potential for big improvement next year, we won't make finals but I think we can do better than this year.

It depends what you classify as elite. Richmond and the Doggies had hardly any elite players but you could make a case for a lot of the Hawks players. Mitchell, Hodge, Burgoyne, Lewis, Roughead, Rioli, Lake, Gibson, Gunston, Smith and Franklin were all elite at their peak IMO and you could make a case for any of Hill, Breust, McEvoy or Birchall. Frawley, Shiels, Puopolo, Stratton and Hale were all above average as well. This is why they are one of the greatest teams of all time. If we want to build a dynasty like Hawthorn rather than a flash in the pan like Richmond or Doggies we need more elite talent without a doubt.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app