No non-Vic team has defeated a Vic team in the Grand Final without list or salary cap concessions

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amer

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Nov 26, 2005
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That is damning.

West Coast and Adelaide both had solid legs up in the 90s. Brisbane were hocked up when they dominated.

Sydney had COLA in 2012 which aided in player retention.

No one has done it. No one.

The interstate sides are still relatively young in the expanded VFL competition.
But there's already mountains of evidence that home ground is the biggest determinant.

Geelong almost never loses at KP, and sides look unrecognisably poor when they play there. If you go to the ground and observe from up in the stand, you note two things immediately - that it is not an oval, and does not look like any football ground you've seen someone try to play football on before.

You're watching a different brand of footy every week depending on which ground you're at, because teams have to figure out how to work within different dimensions while their opposition already has that down. Umpiring is reactionary, so you get a totally different ride depending on whose supporters are screeching that week. The turnaround in margin from home to away is regularly 10 or 15 goals.

Barely anyone wins in Geelong. Barely anyone wins in Adelaide. And not a single interstate team has won on the MCG on grand final day without list or salary cap concessions.

We're on a five year streak of non-vic teams "mysteriously" putting in absolute stinkers on grand final day. As much as it rubs Victorian nut sacks to think we've simply seen five consecutive inferior club environments exposed on the big day, that is a nonsensical impossibility.

For the game to become truly national and actually fair, the grand final MUST move. We don't need a 100,000 stadium. Bigger events all over the world regularly seat 50 or 60k. It's absolute nonsense that our other stadiums couldn't put on a phenomenal grand final.

It was so ******* disappointing spending all that money to go to a grand final, to see my team struggle with things that it could not address without practice in actual AFL games at that venue, while the other team has learned by playing on it way more at the elite level. To watch the umpires be swayed by the home crowd, and the teams themselves be affected by the home crowd. To see that it is just another away game, where we have to travel, and the opposition doesn't. Where we have to overcome what our opposition doesn't. My team can never bridge those disadvantages. They are systemic.

I think this is going to be the single biggest conversation in the game the next several years, because it is becoming more structurally obvious with every season. Having a sport where every ground is a completely different size and shape, and then having the grand final ALWAYS at one ground that half the competition plays at way more than the rest, with all the other advantages that come with playing at home - is broken.

EDIT: GRAPHIC OF TEAM RECORDS AT THE MCG SINCE 2007:

9/10 Victorian teams have better records than ALL non-Victorian teams at the MCG. Melbourne, with their horrendous past 10 years, are still better than 5/8, and level with Sydney. Think about that for a moment.
Discuss.
 

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That is damning.

West Coast and Adelaide both had solid legs up in the 90s. Brisbane were hocked up when they dominated.

Sydney had COLA in 2012 which aided in player retention.

No one has done it. No one.

The interstate sides are still relatively young in the expanded VFL competition.
But there's already mountains of evidence that home ground determines everything.

Geelong almost never loses at KP, and sides look completely different when they play there. If you go to the ground and watch a game from high up, you see just how dramatically different the dimensions are from other grounds. It's not an oval.

You're watching a different brand of footy every week depending on which ground you're at, because teams have to figure out how to work within different dimensions while their opposition already has that down. The turnaround in margin from home to away is regularly 10 or 15 goals.

Barely anyone wins in Geelong. Barely anyone wins in Adelaide. And not a single interstate team has won on the MCG on grand final day without list or salary cap concessions.

For the game to become truly national and actually fair, the grand final MUST move. We don't need a 100,000 stadium. Bigger events all over the world regularly seat 50 or 60k. It's absolute nonsense that our other stadiums couldn't put on a phenomenal grand final.

It was so ******* disappointing spending all that money to go to a grand final, to see my team struggle with wider wings while the other team has learned by playing on it way more at the elite level. My team can never bridge that disadvantage.

I think this is going to be the single biggest conversation in the game the next several years, because it is becoming more structurally obvious with every season. Having a game where every ground is a completely different size and shape, and then having the grand final ALWAYS at one ground that half the competition plays at way more than the rest is absolutely insane.

Discuss.
No Victorian club has won a Grand Final away from their home state.


MY GOD, INQUEST!!!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

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Refresh me, what did WCE and Adelaide have in the 90's?

-A startup list of 37 compared to the 52 the other VFL teams got
-The WAFL raided in the 2 years prior to us joining

Yeah we got great concessions. But expect the usual half wits to say "state team" etc
 
Easy fix.
MCG is the standard for the GF
Build all stadiums to the same dimensions.

Not feasible when all the stadiums are already built.

An actually possible alternative given the MCG is the biggest, is to let the higher ranked team choose their dimensions and have them painted that way on grand final day.
 
That is damning.
Barely anyone wins in Geelong.
That's because they have been a great side for 10 years.
We used to win there all the time when they were ordinary.

We're five years in a row now of non-vic teams "mysteriously" putting in absolute stinkers on grand final day.
Freo and Swans 2016 didn't put in stinkers. Did you actually watch?

Having a game where every ground is a completely different size and shape, and then having the grand final ALWAYS at one ground that half the competition plays at way more than the rest is absolutely insane.
What is INSANE is that teams have a game plan that only works on certain grounds when they know all the grounds are different.
Good teams can win on all grounds. In 2015 we beat the top 2 sides both at Subiaco and also won in Adelaide. We were good on all grounds.
 
Not feasible when all the stadiums are already built.

An actually possible alternative given the MCG is the biggest, is to let the higher ranked team choose their dimensions and have them painted that way on grand final day.
So rip out the first 10 rows of seats and paint lines on the concrete?
 

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Not feasible when all the stadiums are already built.

An actually possible alternative given the MCG is the biggest, is to let the higher ranked team choose their dimensions and have them painted that way on grand final day.
only recently built most of them.
Geelong, Adelaide, WA teams, etc. - no sympathy for building stadiums that don't match the ground the GF is played on.
We get none when we play there, so......
 
That's because they have been a great side for 10 years.
We used to win there all the time when they were ordinary.


Freo and Swans 2016 didn't put in stinkers. Did you actually watch?


What is INSANE is that teams have a game plan that only works on certain grounds when they know all the grounds are different.
Good teams can win on all grounds. In 2015 we beat the top 2 sides both at Subiaco and also won in Adelaide. We were good on all grounds.
You beat us at subi with no nn

We pantsed you at subi with nn

Nn is the difference between us being top 4 and scraping into the 8.


You get to be good on all grounds because you get game time on all grounds and a tenant of the most important one


This is fun - we should do this in more threads
 
You beat us at subi with no nn

We pantsed you at subi with nn

Nn is the difference between us being top 4 and scraping into the 8.


You get to be good on all grounds because you get game time on all grounds and a tenant of the most important one


This is fun - we should do this in more threads
What did NN do on GF day?
If you rely on such an unreliable player you are doomed.
 
Do you understand that it is not possible to get good executing a game plan without training it in games? Are you that dense?
We play on narrow grounds 2 or 3 times a year and we were good on them, beat the top 2 teams at Subi and also won at Adelaide Oval.
You play on wide grounds such as the G, Gabba, SCG, Launceston quite a few times a year.

Loser talk.
Pathetic.
 
I have watched footy for 40 years and it is only in this modern era that supporters believe ground dimensions are a big part of their teams losing, never in the history of the sport at any level have ground dimensions been used as an excuse as they are now. In my opinion it is absolute nonsense.
In the professional era of the game if you think coaches are scratching their heads saying how are we going to deal with the 8m difference on the wing or the 15m difference in length of the ground then seriously you are caught up in a social media bizarro world.
Home ground advantage is alive and well in all sports and always has been but it has very little to do with the dimensions of the ground, it is travel, home crowd, uninterrupted week, familiar surroundings that are the advantage.
Unfortunately for the non Vic sides the game that you win the cup in is played at the MCG which is always going to be an unfamiliar place to play and hence if they play 10 grand finals against Vic sides I reckon they will win 2-3 of them at the most. It is no different with Vic sides playing interstate games or finals, they win a small percentage of them. None of those games you can win the premiership in though.
Yes there is an advantage for a Vic side playing a Non Vic side on Grand Final day, anyone who knows anything about football knows this. But if you believe it to be ground dimensions then you need to talk to your club and let them know they should get some adults to play for them because the players they have if they think ground dimensions are killing them will never win you a flag.
 
Lets remove their flags then as they are tainted. Lets also remove Essendon 93 and 2000 flags as they were over the cap
Was trying to work out if there are any valid interstate flags left after reading the OP.
Only one I can think of is Port, which is kind of ironic since a Crow was the OP.
 
In 2017, Port Adelaide had a home preliminary final against interstate Opposition. Lost.
in 2016, GWS and Geelong both had Preliminary finals against interstate opposition. West Coast had Interstate opposition in their Elimination finals. All lost.
In 2015, Fremantle had a home prelimnary final. Western Bulldogs had a home Elimination Final. Lost.

Plenty of opportunities for Interstate clubs (and Victorian clubs) to advance in finals with a home ground advantage but have failed. So its only an Issue on Grand final day apparently.
 
These loser threads are unbearable.
It's the problem with society these days, it's always someone/something elses fault.

Aw. If the underclass would just stop being affected by things the privileged class has never had to deal with and accept being raped, everything would be so much easier for me.

There there poppit.
 
I have watched footy for 40 years and it is only in this modern era that supporters believe ground dimensions are a big part of their teams losing.

It's because teams have actually refined to a science how to play now, so what got lost in the wash when the game was less exacting now determines the result.
 

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