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Sexual Misconduct in Hollywood (+ now Australia!) - All individuals combined
- Thread starter Bomberboyokay
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- #1,502
Right, so your actually saying as long as women chose to sleep with men to further their career (or vice versa) this abuse of power is completely acceptable, give some get some?
Dont know the story with the above mentioned so cant comment.
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- #1,504
Actually scratch that, I’ve got no idea what your saying... it happened a lot so who cares, then you wouldn’t tell anyone what career to pursue (in spite of saying that this isn’t a career anyway) then something about spacey not being physically intimidating (I’ll be he was to a 14 year old boy) not to mention this ain’t about the physical it’s about the industry influence he holds.
I’m not saying it to be a smart ass but I genuinely have no idea what your saying or what your point is other than “being an actor in Hollywood isn’t a real career to pursue”
I’m not saying it to be a smart ass but I genuinely have no idea what your saying or what your point is other than “being an actor in Hollywood isn’t a real career to pursue”
its obviously unacceptable to you. P'raps you should ask the actresses who won awards and got their rich roles, maybe you should go and judge them for their transactional pursuit of wealth and fame.
I am neutral, but some profited off HW too, this is undoubted, and I never hear anyone thanking him as God now, do you? I am neutral, if you want to go to Hollywood, be my guest. It aint for me, but I am supporting one's freedom. I do not support any rape of another. I aint HW's m8, never want to be, he will never want to be my m8, but seems alot of his expedient former friends have seen fit to throw him under the bus when they knew full well his personal mien. expedient and BS.
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- #1,506
Seriously... they are the two biggest complainants in the Weinstein case... how you could have heard about his accusations and not heard of these two is mind boggling.
“My fundamental position is that women are human beings. Nor do I believe that women are children, incapable of agency or of making moral decisions. If they were, we’re back to the 19th century, and women should not own property, have credit cards, have access to higher education, control their own reproduction or vote. There are powerful groups in North America pushing this agenda, but they are not usually considered feminists." -Atwood MaddAdam
As I said havent been deep into to it.
I don't skim twiteer if want to know about I will look it up via google.
- Moderator
- #1,511
What’s obviously unacceptable to me?
If women (or men) chose to sleep with him to further their career so be it, that’s their choice, I don’t believe that the decision to sleep with someone should define your career choices. There’s a massive difference between the two.
- I’ll sleep with my boss for a promotion or a job
Versus
- I have no choice but to sleep with this person otherwise I won’t have a promotion for a job
You’re giving it false equivalence.
People supported him because they had to. I’m sure he had some friends, plenty of worse people did too, that doesn’t excuse the behavior. The institutionalized power he and many other exerted meant that you couldn’t do anything about it. Speak up you were blacklisted, refuse him you were blacklisted. Adhere to him and support him maybe you’ll be okay. I don’t support that environment in any industry and I’m glad it’s changing, I’m also not going to be apathetic about it being a wider movement cause “meh it’s just Hollywood so who cares” or “plenty of people made it big off the guy”.
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- #1,512
The problem in society is a little game that is sometimes played, mostly by some women called "playing hard to get".
The guy asks out the girl. But instead of the girl reciprocating, (when she IS interested), she decides to string the guy along for a while, to see what he is like, and to have him spoil her with presents, flowers, chocolates etc.
In fact, this has become a staple of TV sitcoms. The guy carries a torch for the girl, but the girl puts him down, ignores him, or dismisses him. Yet, the next episode, the guy again tries to get the girl (who is showing no interest) to go out with him. This is played for laughs.
I think it would be easier to know what is harrassment and what is not if everyone was honest from the start. If a girl isn't sure about a guy, she should tell him that, rather than let him buy her things. If she doesn't see a long-term future with the guy, refuse the presents, refuse to hang out with him. Make your intentions clear. Yes, he might get aggressive. But he can too if he keeps trying, and you are not being firm in your intentions. If the door to romance isn't there, shut it.
I think a lot of women think that outright rejection is mean and might be hurtful to a guy. Hey, I am a guy, and I can tell you two things.
(a) If you reject the guy, now or down the track, he will be hurt, no matter what. You can't spare him that.
But I have noticed something in my experiences. If a girl is honest and turns me down, it hurts, but, down the track, I have more respect for them for actually thinking I am mature enough to talk to me honestly. I may never have a relationship with that girl, but I could be a friend with her down the track.
Those girls who aren't honest, and string me along, I want nothing to do with, because they don't even respect me enough to be truthful.
Despite what girls think, most guys aren't idiots. We deserve the respect of your honesty when you reject us.
(b) It works better, I find, if the girl is interested, to ask the guy out. Now, I know that society frowns on this. But most cases where I know this has happened, the marriage has been successful. My parents hooked up when it was "ladies' choice" to choose their dance partner, and my Mum asked my Dad. Also, my sister-in-law visited my brother at work, because she liked him (she wasn't stalking him) and they are happily married now.
If there was more honesty and everyone was upfront, then there would be less confusion, and sexual harrassment would be seen when the guy oversteps the line, and not an innocent flirting or persuing of the girl, to get her to go out with him, would be seen as creepy. Some things women consider "creepy" is the guy trying to be romantic, and not being good at it. I feel some women should work harder to get the relationship off the ground, and not just leave it to the guys.
I am not saying that it is women's fault. I am saying it is society's fault for imposing gender roles in relationships, who asks out who, what guys want, what girls want. In the end, if you like the other person, let them know, when you know your feelings for them, rather than "play games". There are no rules, just what the two of you want. It is a case-by-case basis.
Also, if a girl puts a guy in the "friend" zone, then be clear what that means. Is a relationship ever a possibility with this person, or will they always be a friend? I have a theory that within five minutes of meeting someone of the opposite sex, you can gauge if they are a possibility or not. If there is NO chance of you ever loving them, then lay down the ground rules, and just enjoy their company as a friend, but make it clear that it will never be anything more.
The guy asks out the girl. But instead of the girl reciprocating, (when she IS interested), she decides to string the guy along for a while, to see what he is like, and to have him spoil her with presents, flowers, chocolates etc.
In fact, this has become a staple of TV sitcoms. The guy carries a torch for the girl, but the girl puts him down, ignores him, or dismisses him. Yet, the next episode, the guy again tries to get the girl (who is showing no interest) to go out with him. This is played for laughs.
I think it would be easier to know what is harrassment and what is not if everyone was honest from the start. If a girl isn't sure about a guy, she should tell him that, rather than let him buy her things. If she doesn't see a long-term future with the guy, refuse the presents, refuse to hang out with him. Make your intentions clear. Yes, he might get aggressive. But he can too if he keeps trying, and you are not being firm in your intentions. If the door to romance isn't there, shut it.
I think a lot of women think that outright rejection is mean and might be hurtful to a guy. Hey, I am a guy, and I can tell you two things.
(a) If you reject the guy, now or down the track, he will be hurt, no matter what. You can't spare him that.
But I have noticed something in my experiences. If a girl is honest and turns me down, it hurts, but, down the track, I have more respect for them for actually thinking I am mature enough to talk to me honestly. I may never have a relationship with that girl, but I could be a friend with her down the track.
Those girls who aren't honest, and string me along, I want nothing to do with, because they don't even respect me enough to be truthful.
Despite what girls think, most guys aren't idiots. We deserve the respect of your honesty when you reject us.
(b) It works better, I find, if the girl is interested, to ask the guy out. Now, I know that society frowns on this. But most cases where I know this has happened, the marriage has been successful. My parents hooked up when it was "ladies' choice" to choose their dance partner, and my Mum asked my Dad. Also, my sister-in-law visited my brother at work, because she liked him (she wasn't stalking him) and they are happily married now.
If there was more honesty and everyone was upfront, then there would be less confusion, and sexual harrassment would be seen when the guy oversteps the line, and not an innocent flirting or persuing of the girl, to get her to go out with him, would be seen as creepy. Some things women consider "creepy" is the guy trying to be romantic, and not being good at it. I feel some women should work harder to get the relationship off the ground, and not just leave it to the guys.
I am not saying that it is women's fault. I am saying it is society's fault for imposing gender roles in relationships, who asks out who, what guys want, what girls want. In the end, if you like the other person, let them know, when you know your feelings for them, rather than "play games". There are no rules, just what the two of you want. It is a case-by-case basis.
Also, if a girl puts a guy in the "friend" zone, then be clear what that means. Is a relationship ever a possibility with this person, or will they always be a friend? I have a theory that within five minutes of meeting someone of the opposite sex, you can gauge if they are a possibility or not. If there is NO chance of you ever loving them, then lay down the ground rules, and just enjoy their company as a friend, but make it clear that it will never be anything more.
- Apr 27, 2008
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"A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment."
Guidance plz.
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Is there a link to that study?
- Apr 27, 2008
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It was from a New York times article, so I feel comfortable about it's legitimacy.
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- #1,516
For those who CBF reading
- women play hard to get
- women should clearly reject men otherwise the blokes will persist and hey, that’s fine isn’t it
- women should ask men out
- creepy dudes are probs just trying to be romantic
- I’m TOTALLY not blaming women... but it’s kinda their fault (they play hard to get remember)
I want to read it, I'm not questioning you
- Apr 27, 2008
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It's from the article Phantom posted recently, I don't think were links in it though.
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- #1,519
I didn’t post it, but it’s the Times article in defense of Ansari.
FWIW what is and is not sexual harassment is subjective obviously, my wife doesn’t mind me smacking her on the ass but I’m not gonna do it to a stranger.
Common sense and social etiquette should dictate it.
Has anyone here had an encounter where they thought they had been totally harmless with flirting or whatever been called out for it? Honest question. We had maybe B4L post ages ago about being told off for using the word rape in a casual conversation but that’s the only example I’ve heard of aside from the Ansari one. It’s hardly some crazy epidemic of women falsely accusing or calling out guys for doing innocuous harmless stuff.
FWIW what is and is not sexual harassment is subjective obviously, my wife doesn’t mind me smacking her on the ass but I’m not gonna do it to a stranger.
Common sense and social etiquette should dictate it.
Has anyone here had an encounter where they thought they had been totally harmless with flirting or whatever been called out for it? Honest question. We had maybe B4L post ages ago about being told off for using the word rape in a casual conversation but that’s the only example I’ve heard of aside from the Ansari one. It’s hardly some crazy epidemic of women falsely accusing or calling out guys for doing innocuous harmless stuff.
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Actually yes I have but why bother explaining it when you will either dismiss it or blame me?
If I was a female that would add more credibility to my post in your eyes, it’s clear where you stand on the issue.
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There were links. https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/11/daily-chart-14
The 25% figure quoted in that opinion piece was specifically in the demographic of French women under 30, under its an odd, somewhat worrying statistic nonetheless
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- #1,522
If you want, tell your story and I won’t even reply to it, I would genuinely like to know because I haven’t heard of any and I’m sure they happen.
Catters 070911
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- #1,523
Firstly, I'm not blaming all women. But I am blaming society, who say that women need to act this way, since all men are predators, so you need to make fools of them.
Doesn't it make sense that if everyone is honest from the start, then there are less problems.
But no, instead, you get on your feminist high horse and refuse to accept that it is not always men who create all the world's problems.
Catters 070911
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- #1,524
As a moderator, you should be more responsible than saying that no-one cares about my post and twisting my words.
But then, it isn't the first time a mod has abused his power, and insulted people who post here, and rather than trying to defuse tension, starts fights themselves.
Well, guess what, I CBF reading any post you write either, mod idiot.
felt genuinely uncomfortable reading the ansari piece - not so much because it's sexual assault (which i'm not really sure that it is anyway) - but because it's the familiar story of a girl with perhaps not a lot of self-esteem combined with no clear personal boundaries. who you already know before you reach the end of the anecdote will be feeling horrible, all while her misadventure is destined to be consigned to some sort of limbo that isn't assault.
low self-esteem, personal boundary-less girls almost inevitably feel pressured when up against certain advances. predatory behaviour and good ol' cack-handed seduction will feel very similar to them because their murky boundaries get crossed. this is partly why they comment on it afterwards (in her case the next day), it takes an uncomfortable experience to know where their boundaries are, and why what we see as sexual regret can end up equated with assault.
this is of course on whom predators do most of their work... the vulnerable. they step right over the murky boundaries of a vulnerable girl knowing that she may go ahead with it despite not wanting to, considering her personality and weighing up the chances that she'll acquiesce once it all gets going, but having no intention of stopping anyway unless things get out of his control. imagine the shame some of these girls feel.
bringing up the allegations at the time would certainly aid earlier prosecution - and these allegations should be put through that process.
but consider the shame, as well as the difficulty in getting people to take your side against a generally popular well-loved figure. all sorts of people sit on these sorts of secrets because of this, male or female victims of abusive actions. the climate has clearly changed where we're more willing to consider their stories.
as for the overall repercussions on the industry - you could really make a name for yourself if you were willing to sleep with influential figures for movie parts, instead of these influential figures having to coerce you into it themselves and risk litigation or death by twitter. other than that, not much. we're hearing about all these instances that happened over years all at once. it will die down and become as difficult as it was before to bring up being assaulted.
low self-esteem, personal boundary-less girls almost inevitably feel pressured when up against certain advances. predatory behaviour and good ol' cack-handed seduction will feel very similar to them because their murky boundaries get crossed. this is partly why they comment on it afterwards (in her case the next day), it takes an uncomfortable experience to know where their boundaries are, and why what we see as sexual regret can end up equated with assault.
this is of course on whom predators do most of their work... the vulnerable. they step right over the murky boundaries of a vulnerable girl knowing that she may go ahead with it despite not wanting to, considering her personality and weighing up the chances that she'll acquiesce once it all gets going, but having no intention of stopping anyway unless things get out of his control. imagine the shame some of these girls feel.
bringing up the allegations at the time would certainly aid earlier prosecution - and these allegations should be put through that process.
but consider the shame, as well as the difficulty in getting people to take your side against a generally popular well-loved figure. all sorts of people sit on these sorts of secrets because of this, male or female victims of abusive actions. the climate has clearly changed where we're more willing to consider their stories.
as for the overall repercussions on the industry - you could really make a name for yourself if you were willing to sleep with influential figures for movie parts, instead of these influential figures having to coerce you into it themselves and risk litigation or death by twitter. other than that, not much. we're hearing about all these instances that happened over years all at once. it will die down and become as difficult as it was before to bring up being assaulted.
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