Prediction Gold Coast Suns Best 22 for 2018

[Dammit]

am I?

do you personally think Hall is one of the top 50 footballers in the league? how many games do you think he has won for us? how many games do you think he has cost us? do you think one player can have that much impact on their team's result?

 

[17er]

am I?

do you personally think Hall is one of the top 50 footballers in the league? how many games do you think he has won for us? how many games do you think he has cost us? do you think one player can have that much impact on their team's result?

Impossible to tell, but statistically the Suns are better with him in the team than out during his whole career. I'd say his combo his Gaz was a large part of his success, although he has excelled without Gaz at times. But you're putting the burden of proof on me when you're saying he's rubbish while I'm saying he's flawed. I only hope his ceiling is higher with a new coach, but in a contract year he may very well turn into another Matera, flashing form and earning enough interest to be traded.
It wasn't me who rated him either or gave him so many Brownlow votes or AFL coaches votes or player's association ratings. I'm just telegraphing the good and putting it in context with the ordinary. For example, Inside Footy used to give him 2s when he turned in the type of ordinary games, with plenty of 6s and 7s to offset. The last 2 seasons he's had a few 4s and plenty of 8s and 9s. I trust SEN's analysis and look forward to what they have to say about Hall during the season, especially Gerard Whateley.

 

[Dammit]

Impossible to tell, but statistically the Suns are better with him in the team than out during his whole career. I'd say his combo his Gaz was a large part of his success, although he has excelled without Gaz at times. But you're putting the burden of proof on me when you're saying he's rubbish while I'm saying he's flawed. I only hope his ceiling is higher with a new coach, but in a contract year he may very well turn into another Matera, flashing form and earning enough interest to be traded.
It wasn't me who rated him either or gave him so many Brownlow votes or AFL coaches votes or player's association ratings. I'm just telegraphing the good and putting it in context with the ordinary. For example, Inside Footy used to give him 2s when he turned in the type of ordinary games, with plenty of 6s and 7s to offset. The last 2 seasons he's had a few 4s and plenty of 8s and 9s. I trust SEN's analysis and look forward to what they have to say about Hall during the season, especially Gerard Whateley.

The burden of proof has to be on you when you're taking pot shots left, right and centre at anyone who is off him due to his now agreed flaws.
obviously we disagree on his merits, but the carry-on from you targetted at people for having that opinion is incredibly rich. just disagree. that makes good discussion.

 

[17er]

The burden of proof has to be on you when you're taking pot shots left, right and centre at anyone who is off him due to his now agreed flaws.
obviously we disagree on his merits, but the carry-on from you targetted at people for having that opinion is incredibly rich. just disagree. that makes good discussion.

A couple of interested outside fans asked and I gave a balanced reply. From the start I maintained that Hally is flawed. I also conceded that plenty of fans on this forum get frustrated by his play. You're the only one who came on and said he was useless without backing it up. Now you're coming from on high to tell I should have done exactly as I have done. Slow clap. . .

 

[SandyToes]

We all know a good team can have one Hall in its team and he's the sort of player that complements the hard in and under 2 way runners
We all love him when he breaks through the centre and runs into half forward and kicks a goal
But, I'm not sure if he does it often enough to warrant selecting him when we are trying to develop a different Club culture
I've never seen an opposition coach bother to tag him
I reckon over the course of his career his direct opponent would have come out on top more often than not

 

[tenderwarrior]

How is Michael Rischitelli travelling after his knee injury? Do you see he and Rosa as part of the best 22 in 2018 or is it time to just play the kids? What will Dew do?

 

[LeverPuller]

How far away from the 22 is Holman? Really rated him at Carlton.

 

[Mini GF]

Would anyone who really knows their stuff fill me in a little bit on Holman please??

 

[Supersuns]

Would anyone who really knows their stuff fill me in a little bit on Holman please??

hard at it inside midfielder, good tackler and ball winner. Never had much of an outside game as a junior and kick was never overly damaging. Watched a bit of him playing for Murray and Kyabram when he was younger. Never got a decent run at Carlton

 

[SUNS]

hard at it inside midfielder, good tackler and ball winner. Never had much of an outside game as a junior and kick was never overly damaging. Watched a bit of him playing for Murray and Kyabram when he was younger. Never got a decent run at Carlton

Are you from Ky mate?

 

[17er]

How is Michael Rischitelli travelling after his knee injury? Do you see he and Rosa as part of the best 22 in 2018 or is it time to just play the kids? What will Dew do?

Rischa requested to play more NEAFL last season because he still wasn't back to anywhere near full fitness or form. Pre-season will see if if he can get some impressive minutes under his belt. Rosa was really good for us last year, played in all 6 of our wins, but the concussion factor looms.
Personally, I'd pick them both and see who makes a case in the pre-season to knock them off. I also predict that with the new squad depth that the coaches will be able to rotate, promote and demote players on a weekly basis, so that none of the incumbents can rest on the laurels and specialists get picked to play roles like tagger, 3rd tall defender, 3rd tall forward, 2nd ruck, inside mid etc

 

[Supersuns]

Are you from Ky mate?

Nah I'm not but Ky have been a powerhouse for ages. Always a joy watching them play

 

[SUNS]

Nah I'm not but Ky have been a powerhouse for ages. Always a joy watching them play

They were ridiculous last year. Incredible to watch

 

[Supersuns]

They were ridiculous last year. Incredible to watch

Insane, the fact that they are mostly home grown footballers too makes it even more incredible

 

[Matchu]

FB: Jesse Joyce ~ Jack Leslie ~ Jarrod Harbrow
HB: David Swallow ~ Steven May ~ Kade Kolodjashnij
CEN: Lachie Weller ~ Touk Miller ~ Brayden Fiorini
HF: Ben Ainsworth ~ Tom Lynch ~ Jack Martin
FF: Aaron Young ~ Peter Wright ~ Michael Barlow
1R: Jarrod Witts ~ Pearce Hanley ~ Jarryd Lyons
INT: Will Brodie ~ Jack Bowes ~ Callum Ah Chee ~ Aaron Hall

I've quoted this team just as an example for my post. The recruitment of these players is interesting because the initial AFL entry concessions don't seem to be playing a big part in the best 22 anymore:

Joyce (academy rookie, 2015), Leslie (Pick 20, 2013), Harbrow (uncontracted, 2010 concession)
Swallow (Pick 1, 2010 concession), May (NT zone, 2010 concession), Kolodjashnij (Pick 5, 2013)
Weller (Traded in, 2017), Miller (Pick 29, 2014), Fiorini (Pick 20, 2015)
Ainsworth (Pick 4, 2016), Lynch (Pick 11, 2010 concession), Martin (Mini draft pick 1, 2012)
Young (Traded in, 2017), Wright (Pick 8, 2014), Barlow (Free agent, 2016)
Witts (Traded in, 2016), Hanley (Traded in, 2016), Lyons (Traded in, 2017)
Brodie (Pick 9, 2016), Bowes (Pick 10, 2016), Ah Chee (Pick 8, 2015), Hall (Pick 7, 2011 Pre-Season Draft)

So that's just 4 of the 22 players (18%). Pretty incredible to think there has been that much turnover/that little development in seven years. Just for a little bit of context, concession players like Patton, Cameron, Greene, Ward, Davis, Shiel, Haynes, Tomlinson and Scully are all still at the Giants and arguably all best 22.

So what does it mean? Are they just simply drafting, trading and developing players better these days than they did early on? And why do GWS seem to not have this same issue?

 

[TJ Hendricks]

My crack at best 22 pre JLT.

K.Kolodjashnij -- J.Leslie -- J.Joyce
P.Hanley -- S.May -- J.Harbrow
L.Weller -- J.Lyons -- B.Fiorini
M.Barlow -- T.Lynch -- J.Martin
C.Ah Chee -- P.Wright -- B.Ainsworth
J.Witts -- D.Swallow -- T.Miller
J.Bowes -- W.Brodie -- A.Hall -- A.Young

Reserves

C.Nutting -- R.Thompson -- J.Scrimshaw
M.Willis -- M.Spencer -- S.Lemmens
A.Sexton -- M.Rischitelli -- M.Rosa
N.Holman -- S.Day -- W.Powell
B.Scheer -- B.Crossley -- D.MacPherson
T.Nicholls -- J.Lonergan -- H.Wigg
J.Schoenfeld -- J.Jaska -- C.Ballard -- J.Dawson -- J.Heron


Nothing against the AFLX it was alright but I'm ready for the real thing.

 

[SunsBhoy]

My crack at best 22 pre JLT.

K.Kolodjashnij -- J.Leslie -- J.Joyce
P.Hanley -- S.May -- J.Harbrow
L.Weller -- J.Lyons -- B.Fiorini
M.Barlow -- T.Lynch -- J.Martin
C.Ah Chee -- P.Wright -- B.Ainsworth
J.Witts -- D.Swallow -- T.Miller
J.Bowes -- W.Brodie -- A.Hall -- A.Young

Reserves

C.Nutting -- R.Thompson -- J.Scrimshaw
M.Willis -- M.Spencer -- S.Lemmens
A.Sexton -- M.Rischitelli -- M.Rosa
N.Holman -- S.Day -- W.Powell
B.Scheer -- B.Crossley -- D.MacPherson
T.Nicholls -- J.Lonergan -- H.Wigg
J.Schoenfeld -- J.Jaska -- C.Ballard -- J.Dawson -- J.Heron


Nothing against the AFLX it was alright but I'm ready for the real thing.

That Neafl team would win the premiership , which I guess we are on the right track with depth.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Suns of Anarchy]

I've quoted this team just as an example for my post. The recruitment of these players is interesting because the initial AFL entry concessions don't seem to be playing a big part in the best 22 anymore:

Joyce (academy rookie, 2015), Leslie (Pick 20, 2013), Harbrow (uncontracted, 2010 concession)
Swallow (Pick 1, 2010 concession), May (NT zone, 2010 concession), Kolodjashnij (Pick 5, 2013)
Weller (Traded in, 2017), Miller (Pick 29, 2014), Fiorini (Pick 20, 2015)
Ainsworth (Pick 4, 2016), Lynch (Pick 11, 2010 concession), Martin (Mini draft pick 1, 2012)
Young (Traded in, 2017), Wright (Pick 8, 2014), Barlow (Free agent, 2016)
Witts (Traded in, 2016), Hanley (Traded in, 2016), Lyons (Traded in, 2017)
Brodie (Pick 9, 2016), Bowes (Pick 10, 2016), Ah Chee (Pick 8, 2015), Hall (Pick 7, 2011 Pre-Season Draft)

So that's just 4 of the 22 players (18%). Pretty incredible to think there has been that much turnover/that little development in seven years. Just for a little bit of context, concession players like Patton, Cameron, Greene, Ward, Davis, Shiel, Haynes, Tomlinson and Scully are all still at the Giants and arguably all best 22.

So what does it mean? Are they just simply drafting, trading and developing players better these days than they did early on? And why do GWS seem to not have this same issue?

Multitude of reasons.
Talent identification. We could have had Zorko, Micky Barlow & Luke Parker in 2010 etc as they were there for the picking.
Player development and injuries meant no success and a lot of players left.
OMeara, Prestia, Ablett all signed 2nd contracts waiting for success.
GWS got it right off field and on field success came. If not then Josh Kelly would be on $1 mil a season at North right now and not stayed

 

[Jirik13]

My crack at best 22 pre JLT.

K.Kolodjashnij -- J.Leslie -- J.Joyce
P.Hanley -- S.May -- J.Harbrow
L.Weller -- J.Lyons -- B.Fiorini
M.Barlow -- T.Lynch -- J.Martin
C.Ah Chee -- P.Wright -- B.Ainsworth
J.Witts -- D.Swallow -- T.Miller
J.Bowes -- W.Brodie -- A.Hall -- A.Young

Reserves

C.Nutting -- R.Thompson -- J.Scrimshaw
M.Willis -- M.Spencer -- S.Lemmens
A.Sexton -- M.Rischitelli -- M.Rosa
N.Holman -- S.Day -- W.Powell
B.Scheer -- B.Crossley -- D.MacPherson
T.Nicholls -- J.Lonergan -- H.Wigg
J.Schoenfeld -- J.Jaska -- C.Ballard -- J.Dawson -- J.Heron


Nothing against the AFLX it was alright but I'm ready for the real thing.

According to Dew Ah Chee most probably out for round 1 and Martin playing midfield. For me Thompson ahead of Leslie for now and Sexton in the best 22.

 

[17er]

I've quoted this team just as an example for my post. The recruitment of these players is interesting because the initial AFL entry concessions don't seem to be playing a big part in the best 22 anymore:

Joyce (academy rookie, 2015), Leslie (Pick 20, 2013), Harbrow (uncontracted, 2010 concession)
Swallow (Pick 1, 2010 concession), May (NT zone, 2010 concession), Kolodjashnij (Pick 5, 2013)
Weller (Traded in, 2017), Miller (Pick 29, 2014), Fiorini (Pick 20, 2015)
Ainsworth (Pick 4, 2016), Lynch (Pick 11, 2010 concession), Martin (Mini draft pick 1, 2012)
Young (Traded in, 2017), Wright (Pick 8, 2014), Barlow (Free agent, 2016)
Witts (Traded in, 2016), Hanley (Traded in, 2016), Lyons (Traded in, 2017)
Brodie (Pick 9, 2016), Bowes (Pick 10, 2016), Ah Chee (Pick 8, 2015), Hall (Pick 7, 2011 Pre-Season Draft)

So that's just 4 of the 22 players (18%). Pretty incredible to think there has been that much turnover/that little development in seven years. Just for a little bit of context, concession players like Patton, Cameron, Greene, Ward, Davis, Shiel, Haynes, Tomlinson and Scully are all still at the Giants and arguably all best 22.

So what does it mean? Are they just simply drafting, trading and developing players better these days than they did early on? And why do GWS seem to not have this same issue?

You make a very good point and have obviously put a fair amount of effort into analysing the list management. I've spent a lot of time doing the same and have three points to add.
Firstly, GWS are apples to our oranges, having been given far more Draft Picks, better access to local talent in the AFL heartland of the Riverina, which has now been cut, and an overall different "Win Quick" strategy. They didn't go for the superstar signing, rather opting to buy some young developed players plus experienced veterans to guide each generation of recruits, with heaps more Salary Cap than the Suns. The one thing that has equalised is the quality of the Suns Academy in comparison.
Secondly, the "Dickhead" factor and go-home/wantaway factors have robbed the Suns of a lot of Foundation players. Dixon, Bennell, McKenzie and Matera had to go, the first two because they were under club suspension and the others because they'd run out of chances and clearly weren't buying in any longer. Then with O'Meara, Prestia, Saad, Ablett, Garlett and other lesser lights, the go-home factor proved against the Suns again.
Thirdly, which is where I can tie in the first two points and answer your question, you really shouldn't overlook the Draft capital Scott Clayton has been able to roll over and reinvest in top picks and future picks after being forced to watch so much talent go out the door. 2016's Draft haul was incredible because so many draft picks had accumulated from losing star quality and getting market value to go back in and pick players who actually want to play for the Suns and sign long contracts. Without going into exact detail, the Suns currently have the same number of 1st round draft picks on their list as GWS, and the recent trade/free agency acquisitions Witts, Barlow, Hanley, Lyons, Weller, Wigg, Rosa, Young mostly come from picks acquired in forced trades or equivalent.
The 2017 Trade/Draft period got everybody's undies in a bunch, but I predict it will have been a genius move because we needed difference making players now and a clean out at the bottom of the roster to develop some talent and accommodate our Academy players. The next Draft will see a further investment in top round talent with two big decisions this year to come from Tom Lynch and young Bailey Scott that will affect how we proceed with the new List Management.

 

[17er]

That Neafl team would win the premiership , which I guess we are on the right track with depth.

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

This is how Sydney have been able to continue to reload each offseason instead of having to rebuild their entire roster. Keeping a strong NEAFL squad means they can just go next man up each time a first choice player goes down with injury. IIRC last year the Suns injuries were mounting and the Swans early season injured players had returned, which meant that Suns2 had 2 AFL experienced players against Swans2's 17 AFL guys. Well there's going to be over 1000 games of AFL experience playing NEAFL running out in that team, which even has Rookies with NEAFL experience, and the selection panel is going to have headaches. Good headaches!

 

[kreglze]

Post AFLX, Pre JLT: (No Ah Chee because he is injured)
Team will probably change before Rd1 but at the moment I would go with something like this.

Joyce -- Leslie -- Harbrow
Hanley -- May -- Kolo
Hall -- Swallow -- L.Weller
Martin -- Lynch -- Bowes
Ainsworth -- Wright -- Young
R: Witts -- Lyons -- Barlow
Inter: Fiorini -- Miller -- Brodie -- Day
Emer: Sexton -- Rischitelli -- Rosa​

 

[Jirik13]

Post AFLX, Pre JLT: (No Ah Chee because he is injured)
Team will probably change before Rd1 but at the moment I would go with something like this.

Joyce -- Leslie -- Harbrow
Hanley -- May -- Kolo
Hall -- Swallow -- L.Weller
Martin -- Lynch -- Bowes
Ainsworth -- Wright -- Young
R: Witts -- Lyons -- Barlow
Inter: Fiorini -- Miller -- Brodie -- Day
Emer: Sexton -- Rischitelli -- Rosa​

I don't think we will play 3 talls.

 

[17er]

I don't think we will play 3 talls.

kregize is not going with 3 talls though. He has Day on the bench, but I would have thought it was as much for ruck and defensive cover. If Dew rotates the forward line you'll see Lynch using his motor to lead up the wings, with Wright at home providing a tall target, but having Day free to swing up either end would really throw the opposition match-ups. Wright is the more likely to take hitouts if Witts is off the ground, but we know Day can pinch hit there and Lynchy isn't bad either. For North Melbourne, I'd be picking Rory Thompson to mark Ben Brown, although maybe Day is the better choice if Leslie deserves to start. But if we are playing Richmond, give the tall timber a week off and choose the toughest little mongrels we've got - Holman, Brodie, Scheer, Sexton, Lonergan - for some grunt.
This year I feel there will be 35 to 40 players used, but not through injury tolls or bad form, rather because that is our depth now and anything less than expectations met should result in being dropped.

 

[Jirik13]

kregize is not going with 3 talls though. He has Day on the bench, but I would have thought it was as much for ruck and defensive cover. If Dew rotates the forward line you'll see Lynch using his motor to lead up the wings, with Wright at home providing a tall target, but having Day free to swing up either end would really throw the opposition match-ups. Wright is the more likely to take hitouts if Witts is off the ground, but we know Day can pinch hit there and Lynchy isn't bad either. For North Melbourne, I'd be picking Rory Thompson to mark Ben Brown, although maybe Day is the better choice if Leslie deserves to start. But if we are playing Richmond, give the tall timber a week off and choose the toughest little mongrels we've got - Holman, Brodie, Scheer, Sexton, Lonergan - for some grunt.
This year I feel there will be 35 to 40 players used, but not through injury tolls or bad form, rather because that is our depth now and anything less than expectations met should result in being dropped.

Listening to Day's interview he will play forward only to ease his come back. While I liked what I saw, I still think Day may start at NEAFL. Still a bit extra fat, need match fitness.