Retired #29: Patrick Ambrose - Officially retired - 11/8

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29 - [PLAYERCARD]Patrick Ambrose[/PLAYERCARD].jpg

Contract Status: Retired. 11/8
Last Game Played: Elimination Final 2019 (injured)
Injury Status: Injured, stayed in Vic with a young baby - 18/7
Sore, finished the VFL game on the bench - 29/6
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hartley has got the length (height), but Paddy’s got the girth.:$

Paddy Ambrose still goes under appreciated IMO, though less so these days. His kicking has definitely improved (he’ll never be elite but he has become reliable at least, less loopy), ditto marking in 2017, and I actually think he is pretty good by hand in close quarters... no pidgeon, but decent.

The fact that we don’t really have anyone in our defence other than Hart’s who is over 195cm will play in his favour, at least against some teams.
But he will need to buck up his formline, which was close to horizontal in 2017. Play more from behind perhaps... I’m not sure you can have all of Hurley, Hartley and Ambrose in the same backline (particularly with Gleeson coming on). Will Brown get a game in 2018?

Here’s a scenario: say you have to send one of Ambrose, Hartley or Hurley forward (two of Daniher/Hooksy/Stewart ge injured, God ******* forbid); who do you send?

I’d nominate Hartley. Because every Essendon defender has to go forward at some stage just to stir the s**t.
 
Liberator said:
Hartley has got the length (height), but Paddy’s got the girth.:$

Paddy Ambrose still goes under appreciated IMO, though less so these days. His kicking has definitely improved (he’ll never be elite but he has become reliable at least, less loopy), ditto marking in 2017, and I actually think he is pretty good by hand in close quarters... no pidgeon, but decent.

The fact that we don’t really have anyone in our defence other than Hart’s who is over 195cm will play in his favour, at least against some teams.
But he will need to buck up his formline, which was close to horizontal in 2017. Play more from behind perhaps... I’m not sure you can have all of Hurley, Hartley and Ambrose in the same backline (particularly with Gleeson coming on). Will Brown get a game in 2018?

Here’s a scenario: say you have to send one of Ambrose, Hartley or Hurley forward (two of Daniher/Hooksy/Stewart ge injured, God ******* forbid); who do you send?

I’d nominate Hartley. Because every Essendon defender has to go forward at some stage just to stir the s**t.
Click to expand...

Personally - if we were in a situation that we absolutely had to send one of Ambrose, Hartley or Hurley forward then Hurley for sure as he might actually do something useful up there as the main target. Ambrose struggled up forward even as the 3rd tall and Hartley has never demonstrated he has any forward ability and simply isn't a natural ball winner. That said when we have options like Stringer or perhaps Francis and tons of smaller options I don't think we would really need to send any of them unless our injury situation is beyond dire.
 
Liberator said:
Hartley has got the length (height), but Paddy’s got the girth.:$

Paddy Ambrose still goes under appreciated IMO, though less so these days. His kicking has definitely improved (he’ll never be elite but he has become reliable at least, less loopy), ditto marking in 2017, and I actually think he is pretty good by hand in close quarters... no pidgeon, but decent.

The fact that we don’t really have anyone in our defence other than Hart’s who is over 195cm will play in his favour, at least against some teams.
But he will need to buck up his formline, which was close to horizontal in 2017. Play more from behind perhaps... I’m not sure you can have all of Hurley, Hartley and Ambrose in the same backline (particularly with Gleeson coming on). Will Brown get a game in 2018?

Here’s a scenario: say you have to send one of Ambrose, Hartley or Hurley forward (two of Daniher/Hooksy/Stewart ge injured, God ******* forbid); who do you send?

I’d nominate Hartley. Because every Essendon defender has to go forward at some stage just to stir the s**t.
Click to expand...
If two of Daniher/Hooker/Stewart were injured I'd be playing Brown and Bellchambers forward with Leuey in the ruck
 

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Interesting discussion.
Personally don’t want Hartley or Ambrose going forward.
If it happened in a game that we lost two of a Daniher : Hooker or Stew we’d be rooted.

Hurley is the guy I would move forward if we had no other guys to play a key forward post.

But if we lost two of those mentioned forwards before the game Mckernan is the guy I would bring in to play the occasional cameo role and Browne.

Browne can play key back at a stretch as well & Mckernan can rotate in the ruck giving Belly a chance to play fwd. Wosha loves duel position players that can play roles in other spots needs be. These are the two id select if that armageddon injury scenario hit us.
 
Mad Bomber Sean said:
Interesting discussion.

Personally don’t want Hartley or Ambrose going forward.

If it happened in a game that we lost two of a Daniher : Hooker or Stew we’d be rooted.

Hurley is the guy I would move forward if we had no other guys to play a key forward post.

But if we lost two of those mentioned forwards before the game Mckernan is the guy I would bring in to play the occasional cameo role and Browne.

Browne can play key back at a stretch as well & Mckernan can rotate in the ruck giving Belly a chance to play fwd. Wosha loves duel position players that can play roles in other spots needs be. These are the two id select if that armageddon injury scenario hit us.
Click to expand...

Boy, you were about to cop it, then the penny dropped:drunk:
 
MarkG said:
Reckon Woosha coaching would help Ambrose up forward. He would be a gut runner like Stewart.
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Stewart also knows how to play the game. Ambrose may have improved a lot in this regard in the last two years but there is more to being able to work effectively in the forward structure than being a gut runner.

Stewart was playing AFL standard 'small' footy this year in terms of his ability below his knees, his work in traffic and ability to find the ball. It may be the result of a huge improvement in Stewart's game but it was nevertheless present. Ambrose would need to demonstrate that he had improved on his headless chook routine when playing forward.
 
blitzer said:
Personally - if we were in a situation that we absolutely had to send one of Ambrose, Hartley or Hurley forward then Hurley for sure as he might actually do something useful up there as the main target. Ambrose struggled up forward even as the 3rd tall and Hartley has never demonstrated he has any forward ability and simply isn't a natural ball winner. That said when we have options like Stringer or perhaps Francis and tons of smaller options I don't think we would really need to send any of them unless our injury situation is beyond dire.
Click to expand...
Academically speaking i would be curious to see how Ambrose went up forward now he has had a few more years building his confidence and skills. It's not impossible that the change in him is due to natural all round progression rather than being particularly suited to being a defender.
Hope i never find out!
 

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If he's not playing a hard tag he doesn't play. Doesn't matter where he plays he just doesn't/can't do enough to create opportunities or accumulates enough to get a game, he's merely a run with player.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Today highlighted the same issue as last year. With Hurley dedicated to zoning off, we need a key defender for the #1 forward. Highly doubt that Ambrose has the size for that role.

If Hooker isn’t going back then it appears we need Hartley.
Click to expand...

I endorse this message.

As much as I love Hooker up forward I think he should be the "zone off" defender with Hurley taking number 1 forward and Paddy number 2. That means that Hurley's offensive drive will actually cause more emotional pangs for the opposition because their number 1 forward will have to put more into defending him and less into attacking. Hurls can do that without zoning off when opposition mids have the ball, but rather break once we win it back.

We also saw today that Stringer is a bit part mid and mainly a forward. JD is good enough to be "the man" up there now with Edwards leading up the ground. Having Langford (following on from your theme) and Stringer play 50/50 mid forward adds another dimension to that. In fact, Stringer adds a better counterpoint to JD and Stewart than Hooker does. I also think his midfield forays will be more effective when pushing up from half forward and being a 7th onballer, especially if Heppell wants to play a kick behind the ball once the stoppage has broken.
 
Ambrose will be suitable for most key forwards particularly the aerobic types but against the likes of Ben Brown, Hawkins, Dixon, Patton, Franklin etc he may struggle. I don't think that's necessarily a disaster. Sydney has played key defenders for years that are undersized to enormous success.

I think Ambrose plays a worthwhile role but we definitely need someone that can play on the bigger sized forwards. If its not Hooker it pretty much has to be Hartley or Brown. I'd prefer Brown. He'll lose more contests but give away tons less free kicks and still make them earn it, plus will actually mark the ball which takes the pressure off our defenders. Ambrose's ideal opponents are guys like Riewoldt, Gunston, Kennedy, Hogan, Curnow etc. The ones that rely on their athleticism (and sometimes smarts) to get off their opponents.

The good thing is both Ambrose and Hurley can play on smaller type guys if needed so we don't need to switch up our defense each week based on opposition. Eg against a side with a small forward line like Richmond I'd be fine with playing Ambrose on a Caddy type player or a Townsend.
 
fishardansin said:
I endorse this message.

As much as I love Hooker up forward I think he should be the "zone off" defender with Hurley taking number 1 forward and Paddy number 2. That means that Hurley's offensive drive will actually cause more emotional pangs for the opposition because their number 1 forward will have to put more into defending him and less into attacking. Hurls can do that without zoning off when opposition mids have the ball, but rather break once we win it back.

We also saw today that Stringer is a bit part mid and mainly a forward. JD is good enough to be "the man" up there now with Edwards leading up the ground. Having Langford (following on from your theme) and Stringer play 50/50 mid forward adds another dimension to that. In fact, Stringer adds a better counterpoint to JD and Stewart than Hooker does. I also think his midfield forays will be more effective when pushing up from half forward and being a 7th onballer, especially if Heppell wants to play a kick behind the ball once the stoppage has broken.
Click to expand...

With Stringer arriving presenting the opportunity to move Hooker to his better position, unfortunately we seem to have chosen instead to play both of them out of position.
 
Just needs to learn how to cheat a bit like Josh Gibson and Scott Thompson did/have done for years and he'll be fine on the bigger players.
 
Eleven 38 said:
It is vs the big forwards in the comp they are all over 100kgs.
Click to expand...

And how would a 110kg key defender go?

Ambrose is probably the best athlete of any key position player in the AFL, that's his go, that's why he's in the league and why he's been successful. You want to torpedo that?
 
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