Retired #29: Patrick Ambrose - Officially retired - 11/8

[Lore]

Contract Status: Retired. 11/8
Last Game Played: Elimination Final 2019 (injured)
Injury Status: Injured, stayed in Vic with a young baby - 18/7
Sore, finished the VFL game on the bench - 29/6

 

[yodellinhank]

Today highlighted the same issue as last year. With Hurley dedicated to zoning off, we need a key defender for the #1 forward. Highly doubt that Ambrose has the size for that role.

If Hooker isn’t going back then it appears we need Hartley.

I wouldn't dedicate Hurley to zoning off. There's your problem.

 

[Eleven 38]

And how would a 110kg key defender go?

Ambrose is probably the best athlete of any key position player in the AFL, that's his go, that's why he's in the league and why he's been successful. You want to torpedo that?

Did you even read my post just before yours?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

195 and 95 is undersized?

No way he’s 195. He’s shorter than Hurley for a start.

 

[Lore]

No way he’s 195. He’s shorter than Hurley for a start.

His stats are contentious, every time they post them they're different. I've seen 191, 193, and 196 all thrown around. Agree he's shorter than Hurls, Hurls is 193.

 

[srobbo]

Today highlighted the same issue as last year. With Hurley dedicated to zoning off, we need a key defender for the #1 forward. Highly doubt that Ambrose has the size for that role.

If Hooker isn’t going back then it appears we need Hartley.

No, absolutely not. Hartley is not a better option under any circumstance. I thought when him & hurls swapped, he didnt drop his head & stuck to the task well. He’s not going to get many stronger gorillas than Hawkins & prob didn’t need to infringe the way he did. I thought he was exceptional outside of those specific contests.

Hartley isn’t part of our back 6....period!

 

[Bunk Moreland]

His stats are contentious, every time they post them they're different. I've seen 191, 193, and 196 all thrown around. Agree he's shorter than Hurls, Hurls is 193.

Looks about the same as Langers to me, plus a smidge of spiked hair. Langers is 191.

I’d be staggered if he’s taller than Hurley.

 

[Zach Package]

Did you even read my post just before yours?

Fair point, but calling him undersized is a bit rich. Gwilt at CHB for us was undersized. NLM in the ruck for us was undersized. He's the same height or taller than all 3 All Australian key defenders from last year.

Can't believe no one's mentioned that he's slower than a wet week yet as a criticism though, that one is perfectly valid.

 

[yaco55]

My concern today was Ambrose was being free-kicked for the same actions he's been doing for the last two years - I couldn't see Hawkins deserved any free kicks.

 

[BrunoV]

Hooker would get torched on the lead by most forwards. It isn't 2014 anymore.

Hooker stopped playing on key forwards who could run in 2013 when Carlisle played on them. In 2014 it was Hurley.

Posters want to play Hooker in defence to match up on forwards we wouldn't play him on.

Hooker's ideal opponent is the ruckman sized lumberer.

Goddard and Hurley are more than capable of playing as the third tall defender.

 

[BrunoV]

Looks about the same as Langers to me, plus a smidge of spiked hair. Langers is 191.

I’d be staggered if he’s taller than Hurley.

No way he's more than 6'3 and maybe some change.

Whether that's enough depends on how smart he is. Grundy, Richards, Gibson and Thompson were all the same size or a bit smaller but they were really smart and cleaver enough to get away with murder.

Grundy aside, who I have no recollection of him ever being torched, the others all had their moments agaist big guys they couldn't control.

 

[BrunoV]

No, absolutely not. Hartley is not a better option under any circumstance. I thought when him & hurls swapped, he didnt drop his head & stuck to the task well. He’s not going to get many stronger gorillas than Hawkins & prob didn’t need to infringe the way he did. I thought he was exceptional outside of those specific contests.

Hartley isn’t part of our back 6....period!

If Hartley has played on Hawkins 5 times I reckon he's comfortably beat him 3 times, got belted himself once and broke even once.

I'm not screaming for Hartley's inclusion mind you. He's had three pre-season in which he hasn't put himself in contention for a round 1 spot that could be his (remember that he missed round 1 2016 even with all of the suspended players).

I'd much rather that Hartley spends 10 weeks in the VFL developing the marking and intercepting parts of him game.

Hartley is of limited usefulness if he can't round out his game to be more than a spoiler. If he had Ambrose's legs it wouldn't be a problem because he could play on anyone but he doesn't so he needs to develop the ability to play as the key defender that zones off at half back.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

My concern today was Ambrose was being free-kicked for the same actions he's been doing for the last two years - I couldn't see Hawkins deserved any free kicks.

If Rance was free kicked like Ambrose was yesterday he'd get a bagged kicked on him each week. Ambrose was ok apart from a few contests with Hawkins.

 

[srobbo]

My concern today was Ambrose was being free-kicked for the same actions he's been doing for the last two years - I couldn't see Hawkins deserved any free kicks.

The two Hawkins got payed in the 3rd qtr weren’t there, the second was simply laughable. I think the way Pat manoeuvres himself in the contest with his arms unfortunately creates unwanted ump conjecture.

Prob just needs to make it more subtle to avoid the trigger whistle umps, because he certainly has the strength to break even in most one on one contests.

 

[fishardansin]

With Stringer arriving presenting the opportunity to move Hooker to his better position, unfortunately we seem to have chosen instead to play both of them out of position.

Yes, and subsequently give Ambrose roles that are too much for him.

 

[fishardansin]

Hooker stopped playing on key forwards who could run in 2013 when Carlisle played on them. In 2014 it was Hurley.

Posters want to play Hooker in defence to match up on forwards we wouldn't play him on.

Hooker's ideal opponent is the ruckman sized lumberer.

Goddard and Hurley are more than capable of playing as the third tall defender.

I'd play Hooker as the interceptor and Hurley on a man.

 

[owen87]

I'd play Hooker as the interceptor and Hurley on a man.

I’m not sure Hooker has the mobility to play that role; Hurley is fantastic as the loose defender because he’s mobile and his kicking is a weapon.

Brown is a good intercept mark from memory, Dea is reasonably versatile on both talls and mediums, and Hartley might come back in so Hurley takes Gleeson’s role. Hartley is probably the most dangerous kick of any of that group.

Ideally we’d have a fit Francis or Ridley as that role suits them both perfectly.

I don’t see Hooker being likely to go back.

For Ambrose; I think he got murdered on free kicks because Hawkins is just too strong for him, and he doesn’t have the smarts of a Hurley to work around it, but Hawkins is really about the only player of that type left, so Ambrose’s running would hold him in better stead against most.

I liked that he showed a bit of intercept marking ability when he was switched off Hawkins, and his disposal isn’t a liability anymore, even if it’s unlikely to be a weapon.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Hartley, Hooker, Ambrose, Hurley...

If only we’d left Carlisle there, he’d still be in the red and black.

 

[BrunoV]

Hartley, Hooker, Ambrose, Hurley...

If only we’d left Carlisle there, he’d still be in the red and black.

It really hit home last year how awesome it would be to still have Carlisle.

Regardless of what happens with Francis, the impact of being able to plant Carlisle at CHB would be enormous. He and Hooker are/were comfortably the most dominant marking/intercepting key defenders in the league. There is hardly a more influential single addition that could be made to the side (with the flow-on of being able to keep Hooker forward, etc).

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Hartley, Hooker, Ambrose, Hurley...

If only we’d left Carlisle there, he’d still be in the red and black.

Didn't pay Hibberd's worth so he left.
Carlise wanted to play back and the club said no so he left.

Club ****ed up

 

[Bunk Moreland]

It really hit home last year how awesome it would be to still have Carlisle.

Regardless of what happens with Francis, the impact of being able to plant Carlisle at CHB would be enormous. He and Hooker are/were comfortably the most dominant marking/intercepting key defenders in the league. There is hardly a more influential single addition that could be made to the side (with the flow-on of being able to keep Hooker forward, etc).

Yeah wasn’t a commentary on Francis or Parish, the club’s preference was always to keep Carlisle. Once he decided to leave we got a good trade.

 

[ant555]

Hooker stopped playing on key forwards who could run in 2013 when Carlisle played on them. In 2014 it was Hurley.

Posters want to play Hooker in defence to match up on forwards we wouldn't play him on.

Hooker's ideal opponent is the ruckman sized lumberer.

Goddard and Hurley are more than capable of playing as the third tall defender.

Agree 100%.

 

[fishardansin]

It really hit home last year how awesome it would be to still have Carlisle.

Regardless of what happens with Francis, the impact of being able to plant Carlisle at CHB would be enormous. He and Hooker are/were comfortably the most dominant marking/intercepting key defenders in the league. There is hardly a more influential single addition that could be made to the side (with the flow-on of being able to keep Hooker forward, etc).

Trade out Francis and Langford for Carlisle and Ryder and we were a very good side last year.

 

[fishardansin]

I’m not sure Hooker has the mobility to play that role; Hurley is fantastic as the loose defender because he’s mobile and his kicking is a weapon.

Brown is a good intercept mark from memory, Dea is reasonably versatile on both talls and mediums, and Hartley might come back in so Hurley takes Gleeson’s role. Hartley is probably the most dangerous kick of any of that group.

Ideally we’d have a fit Francis or Ridley as that role suits them both perfectly.

I don’t see Hooker being likely to go back.

For Ambrose; I think he got murdered on free kicks because Hawkins is just too strong for him, and he doesn’t have the smarts of a Hurley to work around it, but Hawkins is really about the only player of that type left, so Ambrose’s running would hold him in better stead against most.

I liked that he showed a bit of intercept marking ability when he was switched off Hawkins, and his disposal isn’t a liability anymore, even if it’s unlikely to be a weapon.

If you're playing off your man to intercept then mobility isn't the key. The reasons I pick him for this role are his lack of mobility, his great marking and reading of the play. Hurley is more capable of not getting caught out on the lead he can then body crash his opponent and run forward as a small defender collects the ground ball.

 

[Haychh]

Wrist surgery. Out for extended period

Is it just me or have we copped more injuries before the season has started than we did for all of last year??

 

[owen87]

Ugh.