Autopsy NMFC vs STK: Flogging

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berniemccarthy said:
Think this is inherently incorrect. Traditional numbers of clashes between these clubs would have been consulted. They knew what it would get weeks out. If they want a huge crowd they have to schedule someone big against us. That is the reality.
Click to expand...

They don't want a huge crowd. They want to be able to take the game off us in 2 years saying we "failed to make it work." This is after they schedule us against 4 different sides in 4 years
 
Late to the party but that was a wonderful team win.

Well done to coaches and players on 4 quarters of application.

At the time it appeared another 2nd half debacle likely after (the one failure) an inability to convert was on show.

So how refreshing to see us build a win off so many basics- running in numbers, pressuring, taking a second to spot an option and my favourite - driving it forward through any means whether a tap, spoil or bash. Plus everyone contributed.

Just hope we bottled whatever the preparation was because that attitude every week will get us places sooner than later.
 

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The win isn't really here nor there in the big scheme of things.

What I loved was the intent. That is something that can be brought every week regardless of our skills or the scoreboard.

If they keep applying themselves like that then the other issues will eventually correct themselves.
 
Last edited:
giantroo said:
Good Friday ratings drop
Metropolitain television ratings for the Good Friday game were down in 2018 compared to 2017.

An average audience of 313,000 watched the match on Channel Seven in metropolitan Melbourne in 2017, but in 2018 that figure was 206,000, according to TV Tonight.

Nationally the game attracted an averaged of 522,000 viewers in 2017 on Channel Seven and 7mate. That figure for 2018 was 330,000 but it did not include Sydney or Brisbane, as those numbers were not yet available.

Even if Sydney and Brisbane numbers from 2017 were used as a guide for 2018, the number of viewers watching around the country in metropolitan areas on Channel Seven and 7mate was still lower this year.

Fox Footy attracted an average of 176,000 viewers nationally (metropolitan and regional), while in 2018 the match attracted an average of 198,000 viewers by the same count.

Attendance was also lower in 2018 (33,966) compared to 2017 (42,814).

In 2017 the AFL said it would review the Dogs' and Kangaroos' places in the inaugural clash based on attendances, ratings and contribution made to the Good Friday Appeal.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...riday-spot-back-for-2019-20180401-p4z7b5.html
Click to expand...


And so it begins...........
 
Right that was a good read through

Like I said I was camping and got a few score updates while I reheated an Irish stew on the stove.

I am pretty sure David Parkin was doing special comments. Man that made it hard.

Example
I turn on the radio
"After that goal it is st kildas chance to stamp their control on the game"
Me thinks 'uh oh'
"I just think that if St Kilda kick 3 or 4 goals in a row from here, they will have control of this game"
Me thinks 'huh???'

Turns out we were up by 11 at that point

Seriously the whole game I'd turn it on and he'd be coming up with insane comments that gave me no indication as to what was happening.
 
North Viking said:
You’re argument is full of holes.

You’re arguing that we must trade out Goldie/Cunners for a chance at a premiership. I don’t see historical evidence from any other team in the competition that this method has worked.
Even with the ridiculously high multiple picks the new franchises were given, I am yet to see them win a GF! Wait! Even play a GF!

Teams such as StKilda, Melb and Carltank that routinely go down this path have netted what? A constant rebuild mode and a somewhat plastic culture of under achieving selling false hope to thier supporter base?

I grant you only one team has done this successfully. That is, Hawthorn. They gutted thier list in the early 00’s and traded out well, as a result of some lowly finishes they were able to rort the compensation pick system and garner additional top 3 compensation picks over multiple years (Hodge and Roughead).
The priority pick system has changed significantly to not allow this sort of rort.
One could also argue that St Kilda also benefitted immensely with the priority pick system (Riewoldt and Ball) however they fell short. Interestingly enough it isn’t really working for them now after they gutted thier list post 2010.

In the modern era, the last 10 years no club has done this successfully.

You’re also not acknowledging that some of these players are irreplaceable in the sense of culture and the development/mentoring of those around them. ie Dish and Waite in BBB.

IMO trading out Cunners at the end of this year would be absolute folly. It would expose our young and developing midfield. Similar to what delisting Scooter last year would of done to our defence this year.

You state that no F/A’s want to come to our club? What of Higgins and Waite. Dusty and Kelly shunned F/A and chose to remain at thier clubs. They shunned all clubs. I am confident over the next 2 years we will land a big name or 2...
Besides, not one club is 100% successful at FA.

As to your father/sons comment. I don’t recall missing on any as of yet. I also think it’s extremely premature to make this statement ahead of what may or may not happen this year. Crocker is a lock, Scott will come and perhaps Bailey is 50/50. However this doesn’t really have much to do with them not wanting to come, more so about the rort that is the northern academies.

However, saying the above i do agree that we need top end talent to push for our next premiership. I feel we were an A grader or 2 away from premierships in 2014/15.
Though, I do believe we have these future stars already on our list in LDU and Simpkin. Add this to another top 6 draft pick and TT this year and I feel our list will have much promise.
Throw in some very high ceiling later picks that are developing nicely like Walker and Larkey, with the unknowns of Flash, Kyron and Murphy. To go with some KPP talent that need further development (BMac, Durdin and Nielson), I can see the makings of a premiership winning list in 3-4 years time.

Of course injuries and player development is critical to ultimate success. Since we went on this rebuild path, over the last 18 months in isolation I am happy with what I am seeing from our coaching staff and development of our kids. Sure they don’t always get it right (enter Joyce and Scott haters) but they have also got it right numerous time on picks and development (EVW, BBB, MWills etc etc). I don’t think there is a club out there that develops a 100% of thier kids into serviceable AFL players.

Of course success is also dependent on a solid game plan and the total buy in from the whole team. At this stage I don’t think we are there yet but I am seeing the signs.

I may be a glass half full type of bloke but tbh I just can’t see the negativity surrounding our list from the media and some BF posters. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the way to go about building a stable healthy club with 100% buy-in from the entire team.

Our list isn’t quite there yet, but it’s not as far away as you think!!
Click to expand...


Not a fan of trading away existing talent unless you're getting an established star. However if you give me a choice between multiple middle tier finishes or 2-3 years of bottom 4 finishes, then I'll take option 2 thanks. Drafting is not an exact science in any sport, clearly however, access to top end talent is preferable. As you say yourself, if we had another 2 or 3 guns in 2014/15, then who knows? That prelim against the Duckers in Perth still haunts me, that was our best shot.
 
Snake_Baker said:
The win isn't really here nor there in the big scheme of things.

What I loved was the intent. That is something that can be brought every week regardless of our skills or the scoreboard.

If they keep applying themselves like that then the other issues will eventually correct themselves.
Click to expand...

+ 1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Snake_Baker said:
The win isn't really here nor there in the big scheme of things.

What I loved was the intent. That is something that can be brought every week regardless of our skills or the scoreboard.

If they keep applying themselves like that then the other issues will eventually correct themselves.
Click to expand...

Even more pleasing was the fact that the exact same intent was evident in the VFL team as well!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
North Viking said:
You’re argument is full of holes.

You’re arguing that we must trade out Goldie/Cunners for a chance at a premiership. I don’t see historical evidence from any other team in the competition that this method has worked.
Even with the ridiculously high multiple picks the new franchises were given, I am yet to see them win a GF! Wait! Even play a GF!

Teams such as StKilda, Melb and Carltank that routinely go down this path have netted what? A constant rebuild mode and a somewhat plastic culture of under achieving selling false hope to thier supporter base?

I grant you only one team has done this successfully. That is, Hawthorn. They gutted thier list in the early 00’s and traded out well, as a result of some lowly finishes they were able to rort the compensation pick system and garner additional top 3 compensation picks over multiple years (Hodge and Roughead).
The priority pick system has changed significantly to not allow this sort of rort.
One could also argue that St Kilda also benefitted immensely with the priority pick system (Riewoldt and Ball) however they fell short. Interestingly enough it isn’t really working for them now after they gutted thier list post 2010.

In the modern era, the last 10 years no club has done this successfully.

You’re also not acknowledging that some of these players are irreplaceable in the sense of culture and the development/mentoring of those around them. ie Dish and Waite in BBB.

IMO trading out Cunners at the end of this year would be absolute folly. It would expose our young and developing midfield. Similar to what delisting Scooter last year would of done to our defence this year.

You state that no F/A’s want to come to our club? What of Higgins and Waite. Dusty and Kelly shunned F/A and chose to remain at thier clubs. They shunned all clubs. I am confident over the next 2 years we will land a big name or 2...
Besides, not one club is 100% successful at FA.

As to your father/sons comment. I don’t recall missing on any as of yet. I also think it’s extremely premature to make this statement ahead of what may or may not happen this year. Crocker is a lock, Scott will come and perhaps Bailey is 50/50. However this doesn’t really have much to do with them not wanting to come, more so about the rort that is the northern academies.

However, saying the above i do agree that we need top end talent to push for our next premiership. I feel we were an A grader or 2 away from premierships in 2014/15.
Though, I do believe we have these future stars already on our list in LDU and Simpkin. Add this to another top 6 draft pick and TT this year and I feel our list will have much promise.
Throw in some very high ceiling later picks that are developing nicely like Walker and Larkey, with the unknowns of Flash, Kyron and Murphy. To go with some KPP talent that need further development (BMac, Durdin and Nielson), I can see the makings of a premiership winning list in 3-4 years time.

Of course injuries and player development is critical to ultimate success. Since we went on this rebuild path, over the last 18 months in isolation I am happy with what I am seeing from our coaching staff and development of our kids. Sure they don’t always get it right (enter Joyce and Scott haters) but they have also got it right numerous time on picks and development (EVW, BBB, MWills etc etc). I don’t think there is a club out there that develops a 100% of thier kids into serviceable AFL players.

Of course success is also dependent on a solid game plan and the total buy in from the whole team. At this stage I don’t think we are there yet but I am seeing the signs.

I may be a glass half full type of bloke but tbh I just can’t see the negativity surrounding our list from the media and some BF posters. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the way to go about building a stable healthy club with 100% buy-in from the entire team.

Our list isn’t quite there yet, but it’s not as far away as you think!!
Click to expand...

That is a well thought out response and I agree with a lot of what you say.

However the basic question I am asking (and it was a leading question) is where is the elite talent coming from?

Most on here 2 weeks ago were saying/begging for a bottom 2 finish so we could get access to elite talent from the draft - my argument then and now is that this is fraught with danger. A complete bottoming out would see us in real problems for many years to come - 10 years plus my mind. We simply cannot afford to go down this path.

So the issue is - as you agree with - how do we get the 3-4 really good players we require to go from a middling/third quartile side to a top 4 contender again? If we are not going to bottom out how do we get those kids?

F/a's are simply not coming here - you note we got access to some f/a's that other clubs didn't want to look at and that was great but there is a very long list now of younger f/a's that have said no to us over many years now. The idea that they are coming when we are an average to lower side is wishful thinking.

The elite f/s to get is Blakey and your assumption (I assume you meant Blakey not 'Bailey') that we are a 50% chance of getting him is dreaming - it's 5% - at best. Scott is less than 50% and Crocker is unlikely to be elite in any event. Thomas we will get but I hope its not the McDonald scenario again of us paying too much because we are so far invested in him as a club.

So again I ask - without bottoming out - how do we get the young players we require to not only replace Waite, Thommo etc but rebuild to become a top 4 contender.

All of the flag winners in the recent past have lost 'untouchable players' - and they have moved on and become successful.

Of course supporters don't want to see high profile players leave their club - they think that holes will be left in the team and that they will never recover - but sometimes turnover is good and needs to be embraced. I agree it can't and shouldn't be wholesale departures but it certainly can be selective and advantageous if managed well.

Goldie and Cunners have been chosen because we have clear alternatives in the Ruck and midfield for them - I would not support trading BBB or TAZ because we don't (as yet) have replacements - JZ - we can replace easily but I don't support trading captains.
 
Coaches votes

NORTH MELBOURNE V ST KILDA
10 Brown (NM),
5 Goldstein (NM),
5 Waite (NM),
4 Macmillan (NM),
3 Tarrant (NM),
2 Jacobs (NM),
1 Higgins (NM)
 

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giantroo said:
Coaches votes

NORTH MELBOURNE V ST KILDA
10 Brown (NM),
5 Goldstein (NM),
5 Waite (NM),
4 Macmillan (NM),
3 Tarrant (NM),
2 Jacobs (NM),
1 Higgins (NM)
Click to expand...

Interestingly that means 1 coach gave JMac second best.

5 Brown Brown
4 Goldy JMac
3 Waite Taz
2 Jacobs Waite
1 Higgo Goldy

You could swap Goldy and Waite around.
 



 
North Viking said:
You’re argument is full of holes.

You’re arguing that we must trade out Goldie/Cunners for a chance at a premiership. I don’t see historical evidence from any other team in the competition that this method has worked.
Even with the ridiculously high multiple picks the new franchises were given, I am yet to see them win a GF! Wait! Even play a GF!

Teams such as StKilda, Melb and Carltank that routinely go down this path have netted what? A constant rebuild mode and a somewhat plastic culture of under achieving selling false hope to thier supporter base?

I grant you only one team has done this successfully. That is, Hawthorn. They gutted thier list in the early 00’s and traded out well, as a result of some lowly finishes they were able to rort the compensation pick system and garner additional top 3 compensation picks over multiple years (Hodge and Roughead).
The priority pick system has changed significantly to not allow this sort of rort.
One could also argue that St Kilda also benefitted immensely with the priority pick system (Riewoldt and Ball) however they fell short. Interestingly enough it isn’t really working for them now after they gutted thier list post 2010.

In the modern era, the last 10 years no club has done this successfully.

You’re also not acknowledging that some of these players are irreplaceable in the sense of culture and the development/mentoring of those around them. ie Dish and Waite in BBB.

IMO trading out Cunners at the end of this year would be absolute folly. It would expose our young and developing midfield. Similar to what delisting Scooter last year would of done to our defence this year.

You state that no F/A’s want to come to our club? What of Higgins and Waite. Dusty and Kelly shunned F/A and chose to remain at thier clubs. They shunned all clubs. I am confident over the next 2 years we will land a big name or 2...
Besides, not one club is 100% successful at FA.

As to your father/sons comment. I don’t recall missing on any as of yet. I also think it’s extremely premature to make this statement ahead of what may or may not happen this year. Crocker is a lock, Scott will come and perhaps Bailey is 50/50. However this doesn’t really have much to do with them not wanting to come, more so about the rort that is the northern academies.

However, saying the above i do agree that we need top end talent to push for our next premiership. I feel we were an A grader or 2 away from premierships in 2014/15.
Though, I do believe we have these future stars already on our list in LDU and Simpkin. Add this to another top 6 draft pick and TT this year and I feel our list will have much promise.
Throw in some very high ceiling later picks that are developing nicely like Walker and Larkey, with the unknowns of Flash, Kyron and Murphy. To go with some KPP talent that need further development (BMac, Durdin and Nielson), I can see the makings of a premiership winning list in 3-4 years time.

Of course injuries and player development is critical to ultimate success. Since we went on this rebuild path, over the last 18 months in isolation I am happy with what I am seeing from our coaching staff and development of our kids. Sure they don’t always get it right (enter Joyce and Scott haters) but they have also got it right numerous time on picks and development (EVW, BBB, MWills etc etc). I don’t think there is a club out there that develops a 100% of thier kids into serviceable AFL players.

Of course success is also dependent on a solid game plan and the total buy in from the whole team. At this stage I don’t think we are there yet but I am seeing the signs.

I may be a glass half full type of bloke but tbh I just can’t see the negativity surrounding our list from the media and some BF posters. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the way to go about building a stable healthy club with 100% buy-in from the entire team.

Our list isn’t quite there yet, but it’s not as far away as you think!!
Click to expand...

I enjoyed reading that. Thanks.
 
Un-*en believable. I will riot if this is taken from us.



Poor North Melbourne v St Kilda showing prompts AFL to review Good Friday fixture
AFL

  • April 4, 2018 7:01am
  • by STAFF WRITERS
  • Source: FOX SPORTS
4a5b4ad50fbfa87de38dc1854cd7f0f9

Ben Cunnington’s Kangaroos defeated David Armitage’s Saints.Source: AAP
THE uninspiring clash between North Melbourne and St Kilda might have cost both clubs the opportunity to own the Good Friday timeslot, with the AFL set to review the new fixture.

Fairfax Media reports that the AFL will consider scheduling “well-performed teams”, as well as a big clubs like Collingwood or Richmond, on the Good Friday fixture in the future.

After a close contest between North and the Western Bulldogs in the inaugural Good Friday clash last year — a game that drew an attendance of just over 42,000 — the Kangaroos and Saints produced a tame game that saw both teams manage just 2.10 each in the first half.

St Kilda then faded dramatically in the second half as six Ben Brown goals inspired North to a 52-point victory at Etihad Stadium.

Just under 34,000 people attended the game while the standard of the game was below the standard of what the AFL would’ve liked for a marquee, stand-alone fixture.

The poor showing has prompted the AFL to consider opening the fixture up to other teams and, potentially, venues, according to Fairfax Media.

Should the AFL opt to share the Good Friday love with other clubs, it’d be a big blow particularly for North, which lobbied hard with the league’s headquarters to play on Good Friday.
 
Oh well, I was pretty sure that was going to happen and it looks like it will and we won't be involved next year. Absolute joke they didn't give us Carlton in the first place but then made it even worse by removing the dogs and putting in the Saints. Unfortunately the AFL is a business rather than a fair competition as proved by the fixturing.
 
ApplecrossWC said:
Oh well, I was pretty sure that was going to happen and it looks like it will and we won't be involved next year. Absolute joke they didn't give us Carlton in the first place but then made it even worse by removing the dogs and putting in the Saints. Unfortunately the AFL is a business rather than a fair competition as proved by the fixturing.
Click to expand...
It's a product where the sport comes second (The psychological compulsion to keep tinkering with how it's played is the tip of the iceberg).
 
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