Opinion Ground zero - what do we have?

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Half of it and it was true then

The difference was Bev got the players to believe they were better than they are and they believed in him.

Now they know they aren’t and the trust is gone. They no longer play for him

well prior to 2015 everybody said the dogs would finish bottom 4, including myself because i didnt rate the list, however i thought by 2017/18 most of the young players at that time would be stars. apart from bont and macrae , stringer traded, boyd is a bust atm

in the last few seasons libba has regressed, dalh same.

CHRIS JUDD said we have players who haven't improved much as expected

 

[BRWB]

What i find bizarre is that our list's future is in the hands of Sam Power, a bloke with four years footy administration experience at that beacon of awesome, Carlton. Apparently, Sam did some talent id at Carlton...sandwiched between his other jobs as company secretary, footy operations and risk, governance and compliance roles...

Meanwhile the guy who drafted our flag list with over a decade of experience in recruiting and virtually a whole working life dedicated to talent id and development is released to Sydney - with no explanation.

FMD.

The whole notion that an inexperienced list and recruiting manager on his training wheels will somehow make great decisions is possibly the most ludicrous concept entertained in this and many other threads.

Laughable administration by the club. Just laughable.

 

[_Mike_]

We have a midfield that relies on Bont and Libba. McRae is an outside player in a good team.

This is why IMO the structure fell apart last year. With Libba out for the year it relies on Bont again to carry the load. Dahl is well down on form and JJ is a soft player from the perspective that he's easily shut down. Macrae is an outside player, so is Hunter and one of them needs to step up to pick up the load. I would leave Macrae as he is and put Hunter into a support role for Bont. IMO JJ is current liability and hasn't done all that much since 2016.

I don't like the constant changes, Cordy is a defensive forward - not a defender. Trengrove should be left on the backline and we cant rely on Roberts. Unfortunately the forward line is non existent and I don't agree or like this continued player switching experiment. Leave Wood etc on the backline where they know how to play. Unfortunately our backline was always going to struggle once we lost both M Boyd and Murphy.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

This is why IMO the structure fell apart last year. With Libba out for the year it relies on Bont again to carry the load. Dahl is well down on form and JJ is a soft player from the perspective that he's easily shut down. Macrae is an outside player, so is Hunter and one of them needs to step up to pick up the load. I would leave Macrae as he is and put Hunter into a support role for Bont. IMO JJ is current liability and hasn't done all that much since 2016.

I don't like the constant changes, Cordy is a defensive forward - not a defender. Trengrove should be left on the backline and we cant rely on Roberts. Unfortunately the forward line is non existent and I don't agree or like this continued player switching experiment. Leave Wood etc on the backline where they know how to play. Unfortunately our backline was always going to struggle once we lost both M Boyd and Murphy.

Agree with this - except for Cordy who will become a great third tall defender in association with Young and Naughton.

We now have no good inside mids aside Bont. Wallis will help a bit, Jong has limitations IMO. Webb is not up to it. Dale, Hunter, Macrae, Dahl are all outside mids.

We need to develop some inside mids and get some combinations going- Williams is a possibility so are Richards and Porter when they are ready. Losing Picken and Libba really hurts but we need to move on.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

What i find bizarre is that our list's future is in the hands of Sam Power, a bloke with four years footy administration experience at that beacon of awesome, Carlton. Apparently, Sam did some talent id at Carlton...sandwiched between his other jobs as company secretary, footy operations and risk, governance and compliance roles...

Meanwhile the guy who drafted our flag list with over a decade of experience in recruiting and virtually a whole working life dedicated to talent id and development is released to Sydney - with no explanation.

FMD.

The whole notion that an inexperienced list and recruiting manager on his training wheels will somehow make great decisions is possibly the most ludicrous concept entertained in this and many other threads.

Laughable administration by the club. Just laughable.

Happens in all sectors unfortunately. Experience is under valued and the shiny new novices always get the gig over the tried and trusted. In few years the novice is ditched in favour of someone even younger. Good way of not challenging those a the very top I suppose.

 

[_Mike_]

Sam did some talent id at Carlton

trading for Liam Jones should have set the alarm bells ringing. Their list is still shite and Power is our new version of Clayton IMO.

 

[BEaston]

Not sure if it's the right thread but I looked at our average games played for Round 1 (arbitary) of the last few years:
2014 - 87.8
2015 - 74.2
2016 - 81.5
2017 - 106.6
2018 - 68.6

 

[dogwatch]

Not sure if it's the right thread but I looked at our average games played for Round 1 (arbitary) of the last few years:
2014 - 87.8
2015 - 74.2
2016 - 81.5
2017 - 106.6
2018 - 68.6

... and in Rd 2 it dropped to 60.9

A better thread for it is probably here:
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/some-perspective-amidst-the-chaos.1189868/

 

[Southern 8]

Paul Roos made a great point I think about Weitering, he said even though he was a pick 1 that shouldn't guarantee senior selection and there is nothing wrong with development in a state league. I agree in playing youngsters when form warrants but not just for the sake of development to the detriment of the senior side. I say this because I read a lot about blooding kids but my thoughts are if they lose confidence or form there is nothing wrong with playing and developing at Footscray. I look back on the greats when I was a child late 80's early 90's and so many had a long apprenticeship in reserves before becoming club greats.

 

[Dogs Rule]

trading for Liam Jones should have set the alarm bells ringing. Their list is still shite and Power is our new version of Clayton IMO.

To be fair, Cripps and Curnow are enormous talents. If he gets us one or two of a similar ilk, we'll be laughing.

 

[_Mike_]

Cripps

Still cant believe he went at pick 13.

 

[ScragCity]

This is why IMO the structure fell apart last year. With Libba out for the year it relies on Bont again to carry the load. Dahl is well down on form and JJ is a soft player from the perspective that he's easily shut down. Macrae is an outside player, so is Hunter and one of them needs to step up to pick up the load. I would leave Macrae as he is and put Hunter into a support role for Bont. IMO JJ is current liability and hasn't done all that much since 2016.

I don't like the constant changes, Cordy is a defensive forward - not a defender. Trengrove should be left on the backline and we cant rely on Roberts. Unfortunately the forward line is non existent and I don't agree or like this continued player switching experiment. Leave Wood etc on the backline where they know how to play. Unfortunately our backline was always going to struggle once we lost both M Boyd and Murphy.

 

[_Mike_]

He's not an inside mid Scrag - if that's what you're suggesting. He's an outside mid AFAIC

 

[lachy]

He's not an inside mid Scrag - if that's what you're suggesting. He's an outside mid AFAIC

He started as an outside mid but has improved his inside capabilities and wins alot of his own ball.

He will do better with a Wallis feeding him but is now much more an inside player than say Hunetr

 

[_Mike_]

He will do better with a Wallis feeding him but is now much more an inside player than say Hunetr

Macrae is better as an outside mid IMO, he's not the in and under player type of Libba and Wallis. And with Libba out, this is where I think Hunter needs/needed to step up and play that role - which I think he could. The problem with the last 2 weeks is related to player positions IMO; putting players in spots they are not accustomed to.

 

[the conch]

Agree with this - except for Cordy who will become a great third tall defender in association with Young and Naughton.

We now have no good inside mids aside Bont. Wallis will help a bit, Jong has limitations IMO. Webb is not up to it. Dale, Hunter, Macrae, Dahl are all outside mids.

We need to develop some inside mids and get some combinations going- Williams is a possibility so are Richards and Porter when they are ready. Losing Picken and Libba really hurts but we need to move on.

Mid support fir Bont and Wallis:
Jong, Dahl, Daniel and pinch hitters with Picken, and Clay.
Also more mongrel needed from big men, eg another Minson or Hudson...

 

[lachy]

Macrae is better as an outside mid IMO, he's not the in and under player type of Libba and Wallis. And with Libba out, this is where I think Hunter needs/needed to step up and play that role - which I think he could. The problem with the last 2 weeks is related to player positions IMO; putting players in spots they are not accustomed to.

Its not just putting players in wrong spots, its lack of vision for development.

We have injuries and due to a number of reasons an insanely young and inexperienced list. Now we can use that as an excuse or start to develop it by picking teams that have a balance between youth and experience.

What does this mean. Looking at each line for example if we are running 7 or 8 through the backline make sure 3 or 4 are the following:
Wood
Biggs
JJ
Morris
Trengove
Roberts
Crozier

Even with injuries this week there are 4 premiership defenders available

Support them with 3 or 4 of the following;
Cordy
Richards
Adams
Naughton
Young
Collins
Williams

Balance it up structurally bigs, smalls, speed from who is playing from the senior group. There is 7 to 8 players to run through the back, some developing but always with senior support

The Mids
Bont
Mac Crae
Mc Clean
Wallis

These are the four main mids with 70% mid time. The rotations come through from forward players and these guys Öccasionally"rest up forward.

Wings
Huter
Dale
Suckiling

Rotate the 3

Forwards
again always have 3 or 4 experienced players if possible
Redpath
Dickson
Dahl
Picken
C Smith
Daniel

2 premiership players available this week plus leadership player Redpath

Have them supported by 3 of the following
Dunkley
Schache
Gowers
Lipinski
R Smith

The others to run through the forward line are occasionally the resting ruck or mid. This provide both experience for both ability and teaching /mentoring as well as development of younger forwards

The Rucks
Play
Roughy
Boyd or
Campbell

Only one of them with English until English needs a break

I am not sure where Porter, Greene or NMM fit in but again make sure they are part of no more than 50% of any one line of younger players.

Webb, honeychurch, Jong and Lynch you can persist with but I don't see them being part of our next assult

There are a few I have named I also do not rate highly but right now their experience is more important than their actual ability.

At least if we are picking a balanced team across the board we will see development and that will take the form of getting back to winning games over time instead of the jumbled incoherent mess of the first 2 weeks.

I believe Bev is the right man for the job I am just not sure he has the right support in terms of both personnel and actual roles at the moment.

We can still get lot from the season. I do not expect us to make finals now but I do expect up to continuously improve and try to win as many as possible

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

I think it wreaks of dalrymple, beveridge and McCartney not being on the same page DR. We know all 3 can do their jobs, but there’s a complete disconnect between what all 3 have been trying to do.

Beveridge and dalrymple didn’t want Schache. McCartney did. That’s just one example.

I also think we’ve collectively misread where the game is going. We were ahead of the curve with our pressure, zone and hand balling game, and now we’re WAY WAY WAY behind it in the speed, power and skill era.

Wasn't it Chris Grant who did the Schache deal?

 

[ScragCity]

He's not an inside mid Scrag - if that's what you're suggesting. He's an outside mid AFAIC

Wins too much contested ball to be considered purely an outside mid, in my humble opinion. Hunter is a good example of a purely outside mid. Macrae has become a bull in the contested stuff over the past couple of seasons. I'd consider Macrae a complete midfielder, especially now that he is adding scoring to his game.

 

[_Mike_]

Hunter is a good example of a purely outside mid.

Agree on that point - Hunter needs to add versatility to his game and be able to play an inside role, last year he was well down on his output and match influence

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

Macrae isn’t an outside player.. weird how blokes seem to be stuck in the 2014 view of Jack.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Thanks Twitter updates for reminding me we have Angus Monfries on Footscray's list (just named co-captain).

Would love him down forward in the seniors right about now.

 

[yebiga]

Macrae is better as an outside mid IMO, he's not the in and under player type of Libba and Wallis. And with Libba out, this is where I think Hunter needs/needed to step up and play that role - which I think he could. The problem with the last 2 weeks is related to player positions IMO; putting players in spots they are not accustomed to.

Macrae McLean Dalhaus are indeed inside mids
Go look at the replays the first half of the last two games the starting square players have largely been McLean with more kids - Dunkley, Honey, Webb, Gowers and Jong

Dahl and Bont have started deep forward - Macrae on the wing.

Macrae is as tough as they come - inside or out.

 

[yebiga]

Its not just putting players in wrong spots, its lack of vision for development.

We have injuries and due to a number of reasons an insanely young and inexperienced list. Now we can use that as an excuse or start to develop it by picking teams that have a balance between youth and experience.

What does this mean. Looking at each line for example if we are running 7 or 8 through the backline make sure 3 or 4 are the following:
Wood
Biggs
JJ
Morris
Trengove
Roberts
Crozier

Even with injuries this week there are 4 premiership defenders available

Support them with 3 or 4 of the following;
Cordy
Richards
Adams
Naughton
Young
Collins
Williams

Balance it up structurally bigs, smalls, speed from who is playing from the senior group. There is 7 to 8 players to run through the back, some developing but always with senior support

The Mids
Bont
Mac Crae
Mc Clean
Wallis

These are the four main mids with 70% mid time. The rotations come through from forward players and these guys Öccasionally"rest up forward.

Wings
Huter
Dale
Suckiling

Rotate the 3

Forwards
again always have 3 or 4 experienced players if possible
Redpath
Dickson
Dahl
Picken
C Smith
Daniel

2 premiership players available this week plus leadership player Redpath

Have them supported by 3 of the following
Dunkley
Schache
Gowers
Lipinski
R Smith

The others to run through the forward line are occasionally the resting ruck or mid. This provide both experience for both ability and teaching /mentoring as well as development of younger forwards

The Rucks
Play
Roughy
Boyd or
Campbell

Only one of them with English until English needs a break

I am not sure where Porter, Greene or NMM fit in but again make sure they are part of no more than 50% of any one line of younger players.

Webb, honeychurch, Jong and Lynch you can persist with but I don't see them being part of our next assult

There are a few I have named I also do not rate highly but right now their experience is more important than their actual ability.

At least if we are picking a balanced team across the board we will see development and that will take the form of getting back to winning games over time instead of the jumbled incoherent mess of the first 2 weeks.

I believe Bev is the right man for the job I am just not sure he has the right support in terms of both personnel and actual roles at the moment.

We can still get lot from the season. I do not expect us to make finals now but I do expect up to continuously improve and try to win as many as possible

Love your thinking regarding team structure
I’m not convinced with Bev precisely because it is evident he isn’t putting our best foot forward.

Too much is just strange and haphazard

He has either decided on a complete rebuild or lost his mind or maybe both

 

[lachy]

Love your thinking regarding team structure
I’m not convinced with Bev precisely because it is evident he isn’t putting our best foot forward.

Too much is just strange and haphazard

He has either decided on a complete rebuild or lost his mind or maybe both

Team selections and player positions thus far would definitely having you questioning what Bev is up to. I know I am confused

Hopefully moving forward we do change to a develop whilst trying to win balanced formula