Unsolved Gerard Ross - Abducted Kent st Rockingham WA 1997

Dan Baker

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I find the whole dog hairs at the Ross site interesting.
Maybe someone had a dog but it could also be a wild dog or passing.

Maybe police found a genetic dog match from the hair to the owner.

Its a brave new world and Id love to be the RDBM of that dataset.

With the economy of scale in price points for DNA processing, attaching a DNA string to the animals uID microchip means your pussy might dob you in by defacto.

Even if it was not your immediate dog. It could be mummies.

Here puppy puppy!
 
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Dan Baker

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Even with current data modelling, Google and Facdbook algorithms are getting better by the week of predicting who you are by a dog you own.
With the dog hairs at the Ross site much now and in the future will predict your profile.
Much much more if pooch has been rolling around on your lap or couch or in your car.

Your metadata says more about you than what you say
 

SmartAlec

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Does it take two hours to write per post ? Obviously your script has been changed or the dose has been upped.
So who killed the boy Ross ?

Who murdered the 12 year old child Gerard, Ross?

Any ideas?

Who can say when it falls.
 
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Dan Baker

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Who murdered the 12 year old child Gerard, Ross?

Any ideas?

Who can say when it falls.

I think the next 4 years will be telling, bringing forward mysteries of the past.

70 investigating officers, 20 from another state to clean up the mess?

Baby steps.
 
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Iworkthecircus

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Who murdered the 12 year old child Gerard, Ross?

Any ideas?

Who can say when it falls.
I haven't read much about the case but I've been to the comic shop as a kid after softball .... I
Who murdered the 12 year old child Gerard, Ross?

Any ideas?

Who can say when it falls.

I don't know who but lived in the area and went to the comic shop as a young fella , used to play softball, on a sat .
I wouldn't mind the info in the file would make a extremely good read....
Never made it to coroner??
 

Dan Baker

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Walk into someone's premises with flowers and commit rape without leaving any DNA, no fingerprints?

Familial DNA database searching flanks the perpertrator so even though he may not be on the criminal database they will find the perpertrator by near match.

For example, my cousin was DNA tested because he was rubbing shoulders with Ciara at the bar in the 20 minutes or so she was in the pub.

DNA is also used to eliminate non suspects.

If I were CSK or any other perp, they would have found a match on the database for existing crimes even though it wasn't the purpose of the search. Even though neither my cousin nor I are on the criminal database or committed felony crimes for that matter.

Its like a pyramid scheme for w***ers but not everyone gets to go home.

Its like End of Days where the alien spaceship of justice floats along beaming people up into the flying correctional facility in the sky at random.

You or your cousin dont have to be on the criminal database or you given a sample.
The interesting thing with the familial and my cousin donating DNA for touching Ciaras shoulder at the bar inside her 20 minute visit is that under familial testing even though the cousin is not on the criminal database for a felony, entire families are being tested around him.

In that case one test would have checked somewhere in the facility of 12+ males for a match.

Obviously none of them brought a match to any crime.

So police are testing swathes of peripheral families against the criminal database for familial matches to crimes.

How cool is that!
 
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sprockets

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The interesting thing with the familial and my cousin donating DNA for touching Ciaras shoulder at the bar inside her 20 minute visit is that under familial testing even though the cousin is not on the criminal database for a felony, entire families are being tested around him.

In that case one test would have checked somewhere in the facility of 12+ males for a match.

Obviously none of them brought a match to any crime.

So police are testing swathes of peripheral families against the criminal database for familial matches to crimes.

How cool is that!
Nah, they aren't testing your relatives because your cousin's DNA was on Ciara's clothes/body, you're making that up. They already have your cousin's DNA, what purpose would there be in testing his family or "entire families around him"?
 

Dan Baker

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Its actually more than 3 wrongfull convictions for Claremont, but contemporary wrongful convictions Mallard, Lawrence, Rochford dead who can't talk now.

SmartAlec Was it 70 + 20 NSW investigative officers to clean up the mess?
 

Dan Baker

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Nah, they aren't testing your relatives because your cousin's DNA was on Ciara's clothes/body, you're making that up. They already have your cousin's DNA, what purpose would there be in testing his family or "entire families around him"?

They can run the cousins DNA as familial which is just a partial match.

They took the DNA to eliminate it. I thought had tested everyone.
I hadnt queried him but passing comment we were drunk, he said it was Sarah and the police were going through the video identifying people at the bar.

This time a little more sober he said it was Ciara and police had only tested him because was next to Ciara at the bar.

They can run the familal test DNA against him and know its a near family member.

His wife confirmed men in black had come side gate. I hadnt pry into to it further which is the info was incorrect first time around.

Police took his DNA to eliminate him as a process.

Familial is latin for family I think.
* relating to or occurring in a family or its members.
 
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sprockets

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They can run the cousins DNA as familial which is just a partial match.

They took the DNA to eliminate it. I thought had tested everyone.
I hadnt queried him but passing comment we were drunk, he said it was Sarah and the police were going through the video identifying people at the bar.

This time a little more sober he said it was Ciara and police had only tested him because was next to Ciara at the bar.

They can run the familal test DNA against him and know its a near family member.

His wife confirmed men in black had come side gate. I hadnt pry into to it further which is the info was incorrect first time around.

Police took his DNA to eliminate him as a process.

Familial is latin for family I think.
* relating to or occurring in a family or its members.
They don't 'run the cousin's DNA as familial', it's not how it works.

1. They have the killer's/suspect's DNA.
2. They find someone during testing of suspects or people of interest, or whatever, that's a close but not exact DNA match.
3. If it's a close match to the killer's DNA they then check the DNA of close relatives of that person.

I can't think of any reason they'd be checking relatives of your cousin after testing him unless their DNA is on Ciara's body (seemingly as well as his because he touched her on the night, allegedly). None.
 
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I haven't read much about the case but I've been to the comic shop as a kid after softball .... I


I don't know who but lived in the area and went to the comic shop as a young fella , used to play softball, on a sat .
I wouldn't mind the info in the file would make a extremely good read....
Never made it to coroner??
Interestingly it never has made it to the coroner, despite calls from Daniel Morcome's Dad. Morcome was convinced that a Coroners Inquest would bring all the information out and the best way to finally solve the crime. Cops have always resisted.

After BRE was arrested cops appealed for anyone with information in Gerard's murder to come forward (increased the reward around this time?) and seemed to have fresh interest in this case.
 

Iworkthecircus

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Interestingly it never has made it to the coroner, despite calls from Daniel Morcome's Dad. Morcome was convinced that a Coroners Inquest would bring all the information out and the best way to finally solve the crime. Cops have always resisted.

After BRE was arrested cops appealed for anyone with information in Gerard's murder to come forward (increased the reward around this time?) and seemed to have fresh interest in this case.

What's the chances ? I wonder why it wouldn't go to a coroner ? It's only a lil boy snatched and killed go figure .......
 

Dan Baker

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They don't 'run the cousin's DNA as familial', it's not how it works.

1. They have the killer's/suspect's DNA.
2. They find someone during testing of suspects or people of interest, or whatever, that's a close but not exact DNA match.
3. If it's a close match to the killer's DNA they then check the DNA of close relatives of that person.

I can't think of any reason they'd be checking relatives of your cousin after testing him unless their DNA is on Ciara's body (seemingly as well as his because he touched her on the night, allegedly). None.

Exactly what said, as the newspaper says, they run a familial technique (family) on the DNA from the crime scene.

So for example they my cousins familial against the crime scene sample.
If they run familial technique via a criminal database.
Its not him but its someone in the immediate family.
As opposed to non familial techique prior the evidence room audit which included the Kimono. As soon as familial technique was run on the criminal database.

But in this case neither my cousin or I are on the criminal database.
So while none of our family were on a criminal database, a familial technique would have returned a result.
To assume they would just run an individuals DNA in order to exclude them from DNA on Ciaras body in contemporary technique is nuts. (2015).

The potential for incidential capture in the broader scope is just too tempting.

They were dealing with prime demographic in a time with only 1 million people in Perth. (1996). How many were males between 20 to e0 years of age.

Does anyone know what year DNA was admissiable in WA courts?
 

Dan Baker

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So the police ran familial technique through the database as a digital sample.

I cant remember if they use blob technology or binary doubles.

Then the police arrested, did a test, went its not him but its someone in his immediate family.

They then did another test post arrest of another likely candidate who was not on the criminal database.
Bazzzzinga!
 

Dan Baker

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Surely there may have been DNA on Gerard out on pine forest?

There were dog hairs. This dog may have been passing but if it matches the perps dog?

So the dog DNA may be inadmissable but if it matches surely further investigation is worthy?
 

Dan Baker

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Pop question: What year did DNA become admissable in WA courts?
1P4hTeC.jpg
 
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SmartAlec

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Pop question: What year did DNA become admissable in WA courts?

Sure the resident experts will be able to tell you.

Would love to see who refused to provide a sample.

Besides NC.

Oops, refuse DNA - move up the s**t list.

Guessing it then moves to familiaral and covert.
 

sprockets

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Exactly what said, as the newspaper says, they run a familial technique (family) on the DNA from the crime scene.

So for example they my cousins familial against the crime scene sample.
If they run familial technique via a criminal database.
Its not him but its someone in the immediate family.
As opposed to non familial techique prior the evidence room audit which included the Kimono. As soon as familial technique was run on the criminal database.

But in this case neither my cousin or I are on the criminal database.
So while none of our family were on a criminal database, a familial technique would have returned a result.
To assume they would just run an individuals DNA in order to exclude them from DNA on Ciaras body in contemporary technique is nuts. (2015).

The potential for incidential capture in the broader scope is just too tempting.

They were dealing with prime demographic in a time with only 1 million people in Perth. (1996). How many were males between 20 to e0 years of age.

Does anyone know what year DNA was admissiable in WA courts?
They don't run familial or 'familial technique' on DNA. They certainly don't run 'familial technique' on DNA from any crime scene. If they run your cousin's DNA (the normal and only way) and find it's a close match to the DNA from the crime scene they'll then test his close relatives to see if they can find an exact match. If his DNA isn't close to what they have from the crime scene they won't test his relatives, unless they're separately under suspicion or charged. It's all just testing DNA, the normal way.

"To assume they would just run an individuals DNA in order to exclude them from DNA on Ciaras body in contemporary technique is nuts." - That's exactly what they do and it's the whole point of DNA testing.

Dan, I've studied (as a hobby) inheritance (of genes and DNA) for 25 years and know how it works.
 

sprockets

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Surely there may have been DNA on Gerard out on pine forest?

There were dog hairs. This dog may have been passing but if it matches the perps dog?

So the dog DNA may be inadmissable but if it matches surely further investigation is worthy?
If the perp's dog was a greyhound or another 'specialised' breed where the dogs are DNA tested then that might have some relevance, otherwise no. Of course, they could start exhuming dogs buried in people's backyards or tips I guess, if the perp tells them where the long-dead dog is now...
 
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There are 2 different types of 'familial DNA' terms being bandied about at the moment.

1 is the DNA sample closely matching a current offender in the database. This is then used to isolate close family members who may have motive and opportunity.

The 2nd type and the method seemingly used in the Golden State Killer case. The police have DNA samples and the digital record. They upload this to the Family DNA sites and look for close matches . They then try and link them to people with motive and opportunity the same as 1.

I think the definition of Familial in these cases is more about the sample not being a direct match sample of a suspect or offender in the database
 

SmartAlec

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*It appears on the face of it, that some of Drocs posts have gone missing or uncached from search engines.

"In regards to Gerald Ross who was found in Baldivis; I was riding my dirtbike down that way in the Baldivis pine plantation when i rode past a cross. I thought someone on a bike had come unstuck,as they do quite alot over here in the stix. I went back & had a look & found it was erected by the Shoalwater Task Force who were investigating his disappearance.He was found off an internal track in the small plantation.Bit hard to drive in there with the ruts & sand unless u had a 4wd.Some tracks u can use a 2wd. A few people from the local horse riding school ride thru there." - Phibes

22. Droc claims he lived in the same house with his girlfriend throughout all three murders. was restoring his beddy in Droc's back shed. Droc worked security from 7pm until 7am.
23. Post 1913: The person who flew and out of the country after each murder, was from England. A strange character who drove around in an old Ford Cortina station wagon, and an old truck. But the most interesting thing was he almost always jogged everywhere he went. You would come across him up side streets, across parks - though never at all in the city areas, and he was a person that loved to scout old dumping areas for junk to turn into art. One of his favorite places was the pine forests north, and likewise similar areas to the south. He was about 35 at the time of the murders.

Gotta admit - the cohort mentioned by Droc including the strange fellow with the station wagon and old truck was of interest.

Droc was from Fremantle, right?

“and he was a person that loved to scout old dumping areas for junk to turn into art. “

Who creates artwork from junk?

And associated with the taxi driver?

Didn’t he also mention someone with a boat who was a guitar hero, friends with Droc’s lady interest?

Where are they now?

Who can say when it falls.
 
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