What is the problem with Kaiden Brand?

[Bardo State]

I'll echo the sentiments here that Brand doesn't quite pay smart enough for a key defender yet. He's often unsure of how much space he should/can leave his man and where he should position himself to best effect the contest. It's a shame really because he's come on very nicely with his disposal and decision making when Hawthorn has the ball. Great height, decent speed. But when a player in defense is a bit out in terms of where he should be in relation to his team mates and opponents, it can throw the whole thing out. I remember the game against the Saints last year (he was dropped afterwards) where there were several times where he either let his opponent get too much space or made his team mates come out of where they were supposed to be to cover him or his man/space. It cost several goals over the course of the game. I hope he picks up the 'IQ' stuff because he has some very good tools.

 

[bris tarangau]

Shows that Hawthorn are quite poor in developing key defenders. After 5 years in the Hawks system, according to some posters Brand is still poor and can’t make the grade.

 

[Spursfan]

Shows that Hawthorn are quite poor in developing key defenders. After 5 years in the Hawks system, according to some posters Brand is still poor and can’t make the grade.

he was what a pick 68? If he's a competent AFL player ( which I think he can be) we're doing quite well I reckon

 

[TallyHawk]

What does this mean though? Does it mean he's not great at reading when to run off his man? I've not been to a live match for over 4 years now, I have no idea what he does off the ball.

It means he doesn't zone off and stop Frawley's opponent enough.


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[SA HAWK]

Shows that Hawthorn are quite poor in developing key defenders. After 5 years in the Hawks system, according to some posters Brand is still poor and can’t make the grade.

Can't think of a decent genuine kpd we have drafted & developed since Chris Langford.

 

[crazywildhorse]

Can't think of a decent genuine kpd we have drafted & developed since Chris Langford.

Trent Croad? Jon Hay?

 

[SA HAWK]

Trent Croad? Jon Hay?

If Hay was so good he wouldn't have been traded had 1 good year.

Croad was very good but not really a genuine kp player.

Even if you include Croad that makes 1 decent kpd in 30 years.

 

[Mercy Seat]

If Hay was so good he wouldn't have been traded had 1 good year.

Croad was very good but not really a genuine kp player.

Even if you include Croad that makes 1 decent kpd in 30 years.

Hay got traded in the junk time of his careee.

KPDs are overrated with Clarko’s game plan anyway. He basically invented team defense with the “cluster”, and every backline we’ve had for 14 years has had a variation or twist of that. Brand is too old school and if you watch him closely at games (outside of the tv screen), he finds himself lost out of position way too soon often. Plus his build doesn’t support the strong running defender that Clarko likes. Brand will always be depth.

 

[SA HAWK]

Hay got traded in the junk time of his careee.

KPDs are overrated with Clarko’s game plan anyway. He basically invented team defense with the “cluster”, and every backline we’ve had for 14 years has had a variation or twist of that. Brand is too old school and if you watch him closely at games (outside of the tv screen), he finds himself lost out of position way too soon often. Plus his build doesn’t support the strong running defender that Clarko likes. Brand will always be depth.

Hay was 26 when traded should have been entering his prime.

Take Lake out of our 2013-15 team and there is no way we 3peat.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Hay was 26 when traded should have been entering his prime.

Take Lake out of our 2013-15 team and there is no way we 3peat.

Lake and Brand are very different players. Lake was the gorilla one on one but then could run off and play zone better than anyone. Brand can’t.

 

[threesixpio]

Hay got traded in the junk time of his careee.

KPDs are overrated with Clarko’s game plan anyway. He basically invented team defense with the “cluster”, and every backline we’ve had for 14 years has had a variation or twist of that. Brand is too old school and if you watch him closely at games (outside of the tv screen), he finds himself lost out of position way too soon often. Plus his build doesn’t support the strong running defender that Clarko likes. Brand will always be depth.

Hmmmm....no Lake no Threepeat

 

[Thaihawk]

Didn't he have some off-field issues a few years ago?

His no show tempts me to think there is something behind the scenes. I remember wanting his contract extended, with the process seemingly going nowhere. here has to be more to it.

 

[Thaihawk]

Without being privy to the deliberations of the match committee, I would think this is Brand's primary issue. Long gone are the days when a team could afford a negative stopping player who focused solely on his own man. The manner in which football has evolved means that team defence is very important now. If you're not moving with the team, then you create a vulnerability the opponent will exploit.

Brand is a decent height, but needs to work on his "football intelligence" for lack of a better term. If he's showing in training that he's picking up the nuances of what's needed of him, then he'll be given the opportunity; otherwise, the match committee will continue to prefer Frawley.

Makes sense.

 

[Thaihawk]

Shows that Hawthorn are quite poor in developing key defenders. After 5 years in the Hawks system, according to some posters Brand is still poor and can’t make the grade.

He and Tim must both be bottom of Clarko's class.

 

[tommyk72]

I wonder with KB would be worth a run up forward? Relatively agile, can bring the ball to ground.

 

[crazywildhorse]

Hmmmm....no Lake no Threepeat

No Lake, no Fourthorn

 

[JoeHawk]

No Lake, no Fourthorn

If we got Lake when we first chased him in 2011/12, the Fourthorn could well have been a reality.

 

[OnTheRocks]

I wonder with KB would be worth a run up forward? Relatively agile, can bring the ball to ground.

This thinking always irks me, why can't we just mark the ball and kick a goal instead?

 

[Mercy Seat]

Hmmmm....no Lake no Threepeat

Per my previous comment:

Lake and Brand are very different players. Lake was the gorilla one on one but then could run off and play zone better than anyone. Brand can’t.

 

[Brant]

I wonder with KB would be worth a run up forward? Relatively agile, can bring the ball to ground.

It seems so obvious when typed or said out loud.

I can't believe how low in value it must be to have a tall, mobile, marking/spoiling target up forward.

 

[Nugett]

Thread title reminds me of



The joys of being abused by the sound of music in my youth!

 

[OnTheRocks]

It seems so obvious when typed or said out loud.

I can't believe how low in value it must be to have a tall, mobile, marking/spoiling target up forward.

But he wants the ball brought to ground so why not do away with anyone that can take a mark and just put a bit of ply wood up forward and kick into it so the ball goes to ground. Would save a bit of coin that we could spend on a big marking defender instead.

 

[tommyk72]

This thinking always irks me, why can't we just mark the ball and kick a goal instead?

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t love the approach. Particularly, I would have thought we could get a better balance out of our forwards (ie it’s more likely we are to bring the ball to ground if we at least attempt to mark!). But the more I watch, the more i agree it looks like the kicks in aren’t meant to be the most markable.

 

[OnTheRocks]

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t love the approach. Particularly, I would have thought we could get a better balance out of our forwards (ie it’s more likely we are to bring the ball to ground if we at least attempt to mark!). But the more I watch, the more i agree it looks like the kicks in aren’t meant to be the most markable.

I agree that it's playing to our strengths of not being able to consistently take contested marks in our forward line. Who doesn't luv a big marking forward?

 

[Davo23]

I agree that it's playing to our strengths of not being able to consistently take contested marks in our forward line. Who doesn't luv a big marking forward?

The easiest thing to defend is a forward line relying on a tall forward marking the ball. The hardest thing to defend is the same player who brings the ball down to small forwards, causing chaos.

And we did win a three peat of premierships without any forward consistently take contested marks in our forward line.