Jason Dunstall vs Tony Lockett - who was better?

[Ape_Man]

After watching the crap spewed up by St Kilda this year I have taken trip via YouTube trip of the golden years of the early 90's.

Gee footy was good back then!

Dunstall was an amazing footballer, not just a Full Forward, but a pretty complete player. In players I have seen, he is one of the greatest players I have had the pleasure of watching.

But Tony Lockett is the greatest player I have ever seen.

I'm not basing this on whom was the best team player, nor the most consistent. Just purely on football ability. What one player could do on any given day.

On his day, Tony Lockett was the most dominant player I have ever seen in 4 decades of watching footy. Ablett Snr a very close second.

But big Plugger was a super hero.

For all the young 'un's who look at stats it is easy to see how close the 2 are stat wise. Plugger's statistical story should show you how amazing he was. But Dunstall was always within reach.

In less games Dunstall had more kicks, handballs, marks and even tackles. But Jason Dunstall did start his career 2 years after Plugger and is nearly 2 years older.

Pluger's first game was as a 16 year old in 1983. Dunstall's was as a 20 year old in 1985.

That year, 1985, Plugger kicked 79 goals 22 behinds

Dunstall 36 goals 27 behinds.

Remember that Jason Dunstall was nearly 2 years older at this point.

From that point they would always be compared side by side.

But, for stats sake, let's go from 1985 to 1998. The years that these amazing players competed year by year.

Dunstall games: 269
Dunstall goals: 1254
Average: 4.66

Lockett Games: 227
Lockett goals: 1179
Average: 5.2

Bloody amazing stats!

Games with over 10 goals:
Plugger: 22
Dunstall: 14

Stats have Plugger in front but only just.

Over their careers' it was a brilliant tussle. But in hindsight Plugger has the edge.

For me it was Plugger's ability to destroy teams with his contested marks from nowhere. That places him as the greatest from me.

If you ever had the pleasure of seeing Plugger in the flesh and in full flight, then you were lucky enough to experience Australian Rule Football at it finest.

If not, do yourself a favour and hit up YouTube and prepare to be amazed.

 

[Plugger46]

Two really good players. Lockett is my all time favorite player obviously inspired my nickname.
Dunstall is also a very good player but i question if he ever had that X factor about drawing crowds. Obviously people would go and expect a bag but Lockett was more marketable due to playing in a Spud team and later on Playing in a different state.
Dunstall had blokes like Dipper, Derm, The Rat, Who were all more marketable. And when i think of Dunstall i think about the late 80s team not so much the mid 90s team.
But taking nothing away both very good players really comes down to personal opinion

 

[Dank You Steven]

I think Dunstall himself said Lockett was the better player...

 

[gavaniacono]

After watching the crap spewed up by St Kilda this year I have taken trip via YouTube trip of the golden years of the early 90's.

Gee footy was good back then!

Dunstall was an amazing footballer, not just a Full Forward, but a pretty complete player. In players I have seen, he is one of the greatest players I have had the pleasure of watching.

But Tony Lockett is the greatest player I have ever seen.

I'm not basing this on whom was the best team player, nor the most consistent. Just purely on football ability. What one player could do on any given day.

On his day, Tony Lockett was the most dominant player I have ever seen in 4 decades of watching footy. Ablett Snr a very close second.

But big Plugger was a super hero.

For all the young 'un's who look at stats it is easy to see how close the 2 are stat wise. Plugger's statistical story should show you how amazing he was. But Dunstall was always within reach.

In less games Dunstall had more kicks, handballs, marks and even tackles. But Jason Dunstall did start his career 2 years after Plugger and is nearly 2 years older.

Pluger's first game was as a 16 year old in 1983. Dunstall's was as a 20 year old in 1985.

That year, 1985, Plugger kicked 79 goals 22 behinds

Dunstall 36 goals 27 behinds.

Remember that Jason Dunstall was nearly 2 years older at this point.

From that point they would always be compared side by side.

But, for stats sake, let's go from 1985 to 1998. The years that these amazing players competed year by year.

Dunstall games: 269
Dunstall goals: 1254
Average: 4.66

Lockett Games: 227
Lockett goals: 1179
Average: 5.2

Bloody amazing stats!

Games with over 10 goals:
Plugger: 22
Dunstall: 14

Stats have Plugger in front but only just.

Over their careers' it was a brilliant tussle. But in hindsight Plugger has the edge.

For me it was Plugger's ability to destroy teams with his contested marks from nowhere. That places him as the greatest from me.

If you ever had the pleasure of seeing Plugger in the flesh and in full flight, then you were lucky enough to experience Australian Rule Football at it finest.

If not, do yourself a favour and hit up YouTube and prepare to be amazed.

Locket had the x and the s**t-scared factor. Remember Danny Hughes, footy equivalent of shell scock.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Dunstall could work alongside other great players.
He would kill his leads to make space.
He would give away easy goals to team mates.
He would chase and tackle.
He had a more injury affected career than Plugger, so the relative total goal tally has that *
He was a clean player, total ball player.
He kicked a lot of goals in finals, played over 20.
Dunstall had better hands than Plugger.

Very hard to say who is better. Personally, Dunstall is the best player I have ever seen.

 

[nut]

Why would Lockett dish it off to someone else inside his kicking range? He never missed.

An interesting question would be who would you have in today’s game? Allowing for today’s training standards etc...

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Plugger, both stars but Plugger did it in wooden spoon teams.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Why would Lockett dish it off to someone else inside his kicking range? He never missed.

An interesting question would be who would you have in today’s game? Allowing for today’s training standards etc...

Dunstal would be better suited in todays game IMO, neither would average anywhere near what they did though obviously.

 

[Warhorse]

Lockett. Not even close. Dunstall played in a dominent hawks team and had it lace out every single week.

Lockett helped grow the game in Sydney. Enormous task.

 

[Monkey King]

Lockett. Not even close. Dunstall played in a dominent hawks team and had it lace out every single week.

This isn’t true. Deeper into the 90’s that Hawthorn team was fairly average and yet Dunstall kept performing and carried the team on his shoulders. He deserves recognition for. A truly great player.

That said, there’s only one Tony Lockett. Best pure FF I’ve seen. Moved so quick off the mark for a man mountain and what a peg. I wonder how good he could have been if he’d taken fitness as seriously in his youth as he has post-retirement.

 

[Ape_Man]

Interesting to note in the 1985 - 1998 stats

Dunstall played 42 games more for an extra 75 goals.

If Plugger played the same amount of games he would have kicked an extra 218 goals. 145 more than Dunstall.

What boggles my mind is that I don't think Plugger got everything out of himself. In his peak years from 1988 - 1994 he played just 90 games in 7 seasons. Effectively missing 2 full seasons. Still bagged 490 at 5.4

I know that this is a hypothetical, but if Lockett played those extra games there would not be a discussion as to who the greatest player of all time was, let alone this comparison.

 

[Ape_Man]

OK,

I just realised that my post in the old thread was moved out on its own to this poll.

The original thread was good reading. Closed to replies now after my 3 year bump.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/jason-dunstall-vs-tony-lockett.1068102/

 

[gavaniacono]

Why would Lockett dish it off to someone else inside his kicking range? He never missed.

An interesting question would be who would you have in today’s game? Allowing for today’s training standards etc...

That would be Lockett.
Currently he carries about 3% fat, performs enduro biking I believe at a mature age, a tough gig, is about 25 kgs lighter than donut dunstall, and is a goid bloke immune to waffles and waffling, and loved by team mates.

 

[jakson68]

I think Plugger was the better player but who really cares.
It is like having a choice between Black Caviar and Winx. Both are champions and anybody would be happy to have either.

 

[hawkman]

Lockett. Not even close. Dunstall played in a dominent hawks team and had it lace out every single week.

Lockett helped grow the game in Sydney. Enormous task.

From 1990 on they played in teams with similar records.

 

[Plugger46]

Has anyone met Plugger? Curious to see what he's like

 

[lollol]

That would be Lockett.
Currently he carries about 3% fat, performs enduro biking I believe at a mature age, a tough gig, is about 25 kgs lighter than donut dunstall, and is a goid bloke immune to waffles and waffling, and loved by team mates.

Gold

 

[lollol]

Has anyone met Plugger? Curious to see what he's like

I Heard peter cavern did once. Let just say the relationship did not start in good terms, plugger Likes his own space...

 

[Plugger46]

I Heard peter cavern did once. Let just say the relationship did not start in good terms, plugger Likes his own space...

. I'll be honest Lockett was always going to polax Caven no matter what he did

 

[Ape_Man]

He had a very personal relationship with Brad Fox.

Buckets had to step in to save an opponents life that day.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Lockett did indeed have more 'X-factor' and if you were picking for a side that needed to bolster crowds you would definately choose Lockett.

However, I think if you were picking to win flags you would choose Dunstall. Both players had very similar goalkicking records but Dunstall offered so much more than goals.

Dunstall was the ultimate professional, was highly disciplined (he trained early, broke records in the gym and was never suspended again after copping 1 week in his first season) and was and the most team oriented full forward the game had seen to that point. He would shepherd, tackle and pressue his opponents all the way up to the wings. He caused countless turnovers and additional scoring opportunities for his team. He also passed to players in better positions all the time (more disposals and handballs than Lockett BTW). In fact, I would estimate that for every goal or two he kicked he would pass another off, bringing team mates into the game and improving them. Lockett, as good as he was, was a reclusive player who hated traning and was ill disciplined on the field (16 charges, 9 guilty's and 23 missed weeks which really cost the team). He would usually become an observer if the opposition had the ball and pretty much never passed (as was the instruction for full forwards in those days). Essentially, he added his goals (and aforementioned physical presence) and not much else.
Basically, I don't think 0.18 more goals per game (i.e. 1 extra goal every 6 games) makes up for all the other things extra that Dunstall added every game including defensive pressure, assists, etc.

A good example of the above was raised yesterday on SEN as it was the 20 year anniversary of Dunstall kicking 17 against Richmond. They discussed how Dunstall got to 17 goals with plenty of time left to equal or break Fanning's record of 18. Yet, he gave 2 handballs over the top in the last quarter to allow team mates in better position (even though he was easily within range) to goal. Despite Hawthorn also being miles in front, Dunstall also chased a rebounding defender all the way up to the wing to apply pressure and cause a turnover in the dying stages, which Hawthorn goalled with Dunstall up the ground. That kind of thing was unheard if for full forwards then and demonstrates how unselfish and committed to the team Dunstall was.

 

[Ape_Man]

That’s a great summary.

But your argument also points to Plugger’s greatness.

As I posited, Dunstall got everything out of himself and Lockett didn’t.

But I don’t necessarily agree with it all.

Whilst Lockett wasn’t the greatest trainer, from teammate reports, he trained like he played. With absolute intensity.

I also don’t think you watched him around the years of his Brownlow. He actually got possessions around the wing and half back. It was only after his debilitating injury of 1988 that put him mostly at full forward. His chronic asthma didn’t help either.

I say mostly because he did have a few pinch hits in the ruck. Almost turned a State if Origin around with a last quarter ruck stint.

But it want often.

His attack at the contest also created many goal opportunities for teammates. He also dished off more than he is credited for.

In the 1989 State of Origin he gave Dunstall at least 2. His ground passing was unbelievable on both feet.

As to the long term averages, they are skewed by Lockett’s debut as a 16 year old. JD didn’t debut until he was 20.

Lockett’s first few seasons were, understandably, a little under the rest of his career.

I totally respect your opinion and the time you spent to write it up. Thanks for putting in the time to write it up.

 

[Donakebab]

That would be Lockett.
Currently he carries about 3% fat, performs enduro biking I believe at a mature age, a tough gig, is about 25 kgs lighter than donut dunstall, and is a goid bloke immune to waffles and waffling, and loved by team mates.

 

[tony__montana]

To borrow a line from Bruce, Plugger was a colossus, genuinely.

For mine the greatest ever player I've ever seen is Ablett Snr, but there was no more destructive force in football than plugger in full flight. Saw him kick 11-12 in a quarter and a half at the western oval once.

No disrespect to dunstall who I truly believe is criminally underrated as one of the all time greats, but I rate Plugger ahead of him

 

[Procrastinator35]

To borrow a line from Bruce, Plugger was a colossus, genuinely.

For mine the greatest ever player I've ever seen is Ablett Snr, but there was no more destructive force in football than plugger in full flight. Saw him kick 11-12 in a quarter and a half at the western oval once.

No disrespect to dunstall who I truly believe is criminally underrated as one of the all time greats, but I rate Plugger ahead of him

Agree on the Ablett Senior & Plugger comments....Though you are clearly not old enough to have seen Matthews in his prime.....No player had a greater ability to lift another gear & turn a game their clubs way, when the chips were down & the game was on the line, than did Barney.

Lockett was a pure lead, mark, kick straight full-forward.....Clean as a whistle & with no complications.

Dunstall had a defensive side to his game & was far more team orientated.....He'd of given away well over a 100 goals throughout his career & would have finished with similar numbers to Lockett, had he been more selfish....Plugger was bigger & stronger & played in a crap side, for which he was most of the time, the only target up forward.