2nds Official Swans Academy Thread (Player News and Discussion)

[DavyRed]

FWIW, Swans Academy boys in the Allies squad:

Joey Reinhard
Josh Stern
Zak Cameron
Kyle McKellar
Nick Blakey
Josh Rayner

NFI if any of them are good other than Blakey though.

I’ve posted separately on the small number of boys selected but of the ones selected (and leaving aside Blakey) I’ve always rated McKellar who I’ve seen a fair bit of.

I’m not so familiar with the others but from what I have seen Reinhard looks good.

Rayner is a very good 17 year old (the only Swan 17 selected) but I think he benefits from being a tall and having been selected in the AIS Academy - so possibly being selected for a role and having a high profile, and not necessarily the best Swan 17 year old that we have on our books.

 

[DavyRed]

How gws got 11, yes 11 in the squad when they were crap is simply amazing. I know why because they are from recognised afl areas. There is still a long way to go until Sydney athletes are taken seriously.

Apparently the Swans were very peed off last year with the number of boys selected (particularly compared to the Queensland and GWS boys). They’ll be even more annoyed this year about the GWS boys picked!

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I smell a rat I'm afraid. We practically go undefeated yet have substantially lower representation in the squad than teams we beat second year in a row. Have we influenced this outcome for selfish reasons or is the VFL mafia somehow responsible? Why?

 

[Ralphyboy]

I smell a rat I'm afraid. We practically go undefeated yet have substantially lower representation in the squad than teams we beat second year in a row. Have we influenced this outcome for selfish reasons or is the VFL mafia somehow responsible? Why?

I don’t know what is going on but the swans will not be sandbagging. All the players are visible to the recruiters via the div 2 comp or neafl. I think the issue is that the recruiters from the clubs do not rate kids from a non afl city like Sydney. They have a major influence on who gets in allies and clearly are not interested in the swans players.

 

[DavyRed]

I don’t know what is going on but the swans will not be sandbagging. All the players are visible to the recruiters via the div 2 comp or neafl. I think the issue is that the recruiters from the clubs do not rate kids from a non afl city like Sydney. They have a major influence on who gets in allies and clearly are not interested in the swans players.

You’ve raised an interesting point. My son finished with the Academy last year but those still going through now may need to ask themselves if the Swans Academy will actually help them realise their AFL dream if recruiters are ignoring it.

 

[swansfan51]

Christ the attitudes on this board are ridiculous.

Swans players get talked up? The media is trying to up their value and there is a media/VFL conspiracy so we have to pay more in contract negotiations and bid more for Blakey.

Swans players don't get talked up? The media is ignoring us and there is a media/VFL conspiracy to devalue Swans players by not picking them in underage rep sides and not giving them awards.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Christ the attitudes on this board are ridiculous.

Swans players get talked up? The media is trying to up their value and there is a media/VFL conspiracy so we have to pay more in contract negotiations and bid more for Blakey.

Swans players don't get talked up? The media is ignoring us and there is a media/VFL conspiracy to devalue Swans players by not picking them in underage rep sides and not giving them awards.

Not ridiculous at all to think there is subterfuge of some ilk. We had to keep secret the deal struck with Buddy because we knew it wouldn't be allowed despite we having identical rights of trade, our CEO copped an abusive phone call from Fitzpatrick and then followed removal of COLA and a trade ban without foundation. Its blatant discrimation because we are Sydney and is utterly disgraceful

I now accept anything is possible with these people. Is it them? I don't know but yes I definately think something is going on when we are beaten only one game in the academy series and yet have only six players represented (gws at 11 and tassie 13) for the second year running. How is that even possible? answer: it's not without distorted thinking

Who stands to benefit from non selection? Both I suggest.....short term us- rookies, long term them- pathway undermined. Hence my question: why?

 

[Ralphyboy]

I don’t think there is a conspiracy, and I don’t think the two positions are incongruous. I just think there is an unconscious bias against afl players from Sydney. There can be many reasons for this, however clearly the allies squad is not just picked on merit. To explore the point I went back and looked at the results and best players for the swans academy for the last two years. The swans academy won 9 out of the 10 games played. Of those ten games this kid Wicks was in the best players 8 times!
Surely on that basis he is in the best 50 players of the academy championships. Yet for 2 years straight not picked.
There must be other criteria other than merit, and I believe one of the criteria at a subconscious level is that the kid not come from Sydney.

 

[TheMase]

I don’t think there is a conspiracy, and I don’t think the two positions are incongruous. I just think there is an unconscious bias against afl players from Sydney. There can be many reasons for this, however clearly the allies squad is not just picked on merit. To explore the point I went back and looked at the results and best players for the swans academy for the last two years. The swans academy won 9 out of the 10 games played. Of those ten games this kid Wicks was in the best players 8 times!
Surely on that basis he is in the best 50 players of the academy championships. Yet for 2 years straight not picked.
There must be other criteria other than merit, and I believe one of the criteria at a subconscious level is that the kid not come from Sydney.

Wicks I think is 19 this year so he might not be eligible? I am not sure of the rules but it is an 18 and under squad isn’t it?

 

[Tesla Tenet]

N

Wicks I think is 19 this year so he might not be eligible? I am not sure of the rules but it is an 18 and under squad isn’t it?

No. Over age players are selected nearly every year.

Last years Allies U18s Over age players

12 Adam SAMBONO 24/04/1997 184 69 Darwin Buffalos
28 Harrison CARR 09/02/1998 190 87 Swans/North Shore
31 Tom HIGHMORE 24/02/1998 192 82 Giants/Marist
32 Zac BUECHNER 05/03/1998 192 90 Clarence
15 Jake BROWN 19/03/1998 185 76 Swans/St George
23 Luke ROBERTSON 07/05/1998 189 85 Swans/North Shore
47 Tony OLANGO 02/09/1998 200 80 St Mary’s
43 Jarrod OSBORNE 29/12/1998 180 79 Swans/Manly

 

[SwansProudly]

I don’t think there is a conspiracy, and I don’t think the two positions are incongruous. I just think there is an unconscious bias against afl players from Sydney. There can be many reasons for this, however clearly the allies squad is not just picked on merit. To explore the point I went back and looked at the results and best players for the swans academy for the last two years. The swans academy won 9 out of the 10 games played. Of those ten games this kid Wicks was in the best players 8 times!
Surely on that basis he is in the best 50 players of the academy championships. Yet for 2 years straight not picked.
There must be other criteria other than merit, and I believe one of the criteria at a subconscious level is that the kid not come from Sydney.

In 2017 Neafl June 14, 2017
http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2017-06-14/academy-wicks-takes-neafl-by-storm
it might surprise you to learn the Swans’ leading goalkicker over this period has been 17-year-old academy member, Sam Wicks.
It’s been a remarkable response from a teenage midfielder and forward, after Wicks was unlucky to miss out on selection for the National Under-18 Allies squad despite being one of Sydney’s most consistent performers in the Academy Series.
He made his NEAFL debut for Sydney in Round 7, and has kicked nine goals in four appearances since.
His latest performance against the GIANTS last week – with 15 disposals and four goals – has earned the young gun the Round 11 NEAFL Rising Star nomination.
But Wicks’ ability to burst on to the NEAFL scene in the past month is no surprise, however, to Sydney Swans Academy manager, Chris Smith, who said it’s a testament to his character.
“The NEAFL Rising Star nomination is a well-deserving acknowledgement of Sam’s efforts so far in 2017,” he said.
“He was one of our most consistent players throughout the nationals and his performance was sadly overlooked for Allies selection

 

[DavyRed]

Christ the attitudes on this board are ridiculous.

Swans players get talked up? The media is trying to up their value and there is a media/VFL conspiracy so we have to pay more in contract negotiations and bid more for Blakey.

Swans players don't get talked up? The media is ignoring us and there is a media/VFL conspiracy to devalue Swans players by not picking them in underage rep sides and not giving them awards.

There’s no “conspiracy” but it is a fact that Sydney boys have historically and consistently been under selected at Rep level when compared to other areas (e.g. the Riverina) and that it has been to such a level it cannot be explained by the relative abilities of the boys involved. The Swans are well aware of it and have noted it on many occasions.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

The disparity in numbers selected is peculiar.

 

[Wayne Swan]

Wicks overlooked for the Allies last year and overlooked by the Swans for a rookie spot! Maybe we rookie him this year if we have a vacancy?

I'm sure that whoever the Swans recruiters have their eye on this year that those kids are in the squad. It's not to our disadvantage they are not selected, it must make them much cheaper for us to draft if they are not selected for the Allies.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Thanks for the impressive analysis all!

Not picked on merit- unconscious bias- disproportionate weighting. Interesting words.

Who knows what's happening but when we won 9 of 10 and can't get close to equal representation SOMEONE is having a lend. Whether done as a conspiracy or through demonstrative stupidity I couldn't give a damn- same outcome.

Easy fixed. I'll start a rumour on the collingwood board that we're doing it on purpose to hide players from the draft. Once Eddie gets wind of it you can guarantee we have 20 a year thereafter lol

Unless of course wink wink nudge nudge we ARE doing it to hide players then it's...... 'keep up the good work guys'. Wonder if we can get Wicks as a rookie?

 

[6yearsold]

Christ the attitudes on this board are ridiculous.

Swans players get talked up? The media is trying to up their value and there is a media/VFL conspiracy so we have to pay more in contract negotiations and bid more for Blakey.

Swans players don't get talked up? The media is ignoring us and there is a media/VFL conspiracy to devalue Swans players by not picking them in underage rep sides and not giving them awards.

pork chop

 

[DavyRed]

From Academy Facebook page today:

U17 FUTURES
ROUND 1

An impressive four quarter performance from the Swans Academy team, running away with a 12 goal victory over the Giants.

SWANS ACADEMY - 15:13:103
GIANTS - 4:4:28

GOALS - Baxter 4, D'Agostino 3, Ellem 3, Bird 2, Watling, Maguire, Gallen

BEST - Martin, Dol, Baxter, Watling, Barling, Brewer, Ellem, D’Agostino
​

My son dragged me out to watch the Under 17s play GWS today as he played in that year group up until last season. Interesting watching the team play without me having to constantly check on how he was going and it was certainly more relaxing! Anyway, as you can see from the score line it was a very comfortable victory. It was a bit closer in the first half but the second was dominated by the Swans.

I thought the named best was just about right. Kyle Martin was best on ground playing in the center for most of the game and doing the grunt work on the inside (he usually plays on the half back line). Jacob Dol played half back and regularly cleaned up and took some nice marks. Tommy Baxter was a live wire on the forward line and probably played the best game I’ve seen from him. All boys were very solid and the team generally played well together.

Next up is the NSW/ACT Rams to play against Queensland, Tasmania and Vic Country (I think but someone closer to the team may correct me on that). Will be interesting to see the split between Swans and GWS boys.

Edit: Also, the Under 16s played before the 17s, details from the Academy Facebook post below (I literally only saw the last two minutes so can’t add anything to this):

U16 ACADEMY SERIES
R3

The Swans Academy won the deciding game in the series with a hard fought win over a competitive Giants team.

SWANS ACADEMY - 11:8:74
GIANTS - 7:8:50

GOALS - Davis 3, Sheather, Westcott, Dignam, Walsh-Hall, Wright, Campbell, Gulden, Olsen

BEST - Campbell, Gulden, Eynaud, Sheather, Olsen, Trevaskis, Davis, Walsh-Hall

WELL DONE TO THE PLAYERS, COACHES & PARENTS ON A SUCCESSFUL SERIES
U16 ACADEMY SERIES​

 

[DavyRed]

The Allies play Vic Country tomorrow morning at Blacktown in the opening round of the U18 National Championships, Division 1. Interestingly no Swans Academy boys have been selected in the team. That’s despite them finishing second in Division 2 after winning four out of five games.

Now, to be fair, Blakey would have played but he is ill at the moment and it’s possible/likely that some of the (only) six Swans boys in the squad will be named for later games but, nevertheless, l think this is a very bad look indeed. Either the Academy is not developing and/or playing boys in the right way to get the attention of selectors and scouts, or they are and the boys are being deliberately snubbed for some reason.

 

[Ticky009]

Appreciate your insights DavyRed on the young fellas. We don’t get much insight into that level so thanks for the updates an thoughts.

 

[DavyRed]

Appreciate your insights DavyRed on the young fellas. We don’t get much insight into that level so thanks for the updates an thoughts.

Cheers, mate. I’m not as deeply involved as I was when my youngest son was in the Academy but my son and I still know quite a few of the boys and their parents and so still take an interest in what’s happening. As such I’m happy to update the Swans Board when I get some info or go along to the odd game.

 

[DavyRed]

The NSWACT Rams U17s and U16s played today with both winning comfortably. I didn’t attend but judging by the quarter by quarter scores it looks like neither were really challenged. For the Under 17s they seem to have moved Swans boy Josh Rayner from his usual CHB position to CHF judging from his five goals. Also it appears that Luke Parks has maintained his good Swans U18s form. The Rams also rested a few of the other Swans boys who played in the U18s so expect some of them to be rotated in over the next couple of games (against Qld and Vic).

U17 FUTURES
GAME 1

The Rams were too strong over the 4 quarters for Tasmania, running home with a 49 point win:

NSW/ACT RAMS - 14:11:95
TASMANIA - 7:4:46

GOALS - Rayner 5, Barling 3, Kendall 2, Edwards, Thorne, Conlan, Pope

BEST - Parks, Rayner, Barling, Edwards, Thorne, Whyte, Bayliss

U16 NATIONALS
Game 1

A solid 10 goal win to the Rams over NT, to kick off the U16 National Championships:

‪NSW/ACT - 16:9:105
NT - 6:7:43

GOALS - Gulden 5, Cullen 2, Steele 2, Eynaud 2, Monaghan, Wilson, Roseby, Dunstan, Dignam

BEST - Wilson, Gulden, Pfrengle, Roseby, Steele, Cullen, Gabilla

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Does anyone know who has the responsibility of selecting the 50 for the allies? Id be interested in knowing the makeup of the people involved.

 

[Ralphyboy]

Luke power, Kevin Sheehan, plus input from 5 Melbourne clubs.

Power and Sheehan have a vested interest in their afl ais academy, so anyone in that gets a run in the allies regardless of form. Power is working for brisbane and lives in brisbane. I think the large number of tasmanians in the allies reflects the very poor state of afl in Tasmania, and the huge amount of political lobbying going on.

As for the Melbourne clubs they have no idea about Sydney kids.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Luke power, Kevin Sheehan, plus input from 5 Melbourne clubs.

Power and Sheehan have a vested interest in their afl ais academy, so anyone in that gets a run in the allies regardless of form. Power is working for brisbane and lives in brisbane. I think the large number of tasmanians in the allies reflects the very poor state of afl in Tasmania, and the huge amount of political lobbying going on.

As for the Melbourne clubs they have no idea about Sydney kids.

Thanks mate. Helpful and enlightening and probably helps to explain the selections. If a person is familiar with a player as he progresses through junior ranks (in melbourne for example) then stands to reason that they will be inclined to go with what they know despite results.

Call me stupid but you would expect perhaps that each of the states represented would have coaching development people who collectively make the selections by collaboration. That model must be better surely.

 

[DavyRed]

Luke power, Kevin Sheehan, plus input from 5 Melbourne clubs.

Power and Sheehan have a vested interest in their afl ais academy, so anyone in that gets a run in the allies regardless of form. Power is working for brisbane and lives in brisbane. I think the large number of tasmanians in the allies reflects the very poor state of afl in Tasmania, and the huge amount of political lobbying going on.

As for the Melbourne clubs they have no idea about Sydney kids.

Five Melbourne clubs help pick the Allies?!!! Wow, I never knew that. Why do they have a say when other clubs don’t?