Would footy be better without national expansion?

[bzparkes]

The biggest reason anyone older than 30 isn't as interested in AFL anymore is because it is way softer. You will have these loud politically correct idiots that pretend taking all the violence out of the game is good because "think of the kids" but the game used to be violent. When players biff most people get excited. When players are hit hard most people are excited. They are taking away a lot of the excitement of the game for stupid reasons. There is only a handful of "hip and shoulders" in AFL every weekend now, a key tenant of the game.

Why should players be fined for having a bit of biff after the siren? ffs they are grown men and if they want to slap each other a bit let it happen. AFL will not grow if it doesn't stick to its strengths. There are many, many rusted on supporters of AFL that do not like the changes that will eventually just give up and then the crowds and ratings will not be sustainable.

If the NHL toughened too much up on their biff the crowds would plummet, and everyone knows it.

 

[precarious]

Personally I don't miss the biff - especially the cheaper shots - but it is perhaps of some interest to reflect on whether player participation at grassroots level is actually all that important to the health of the game. In a way, lots of people playing the game may hurt attendances and ratings for the national comp if people are too busy playing to watch. So long as a dangerous game rated well and attracted large attendances, it might not matter if few actually wanted to play it. You'd still get the gladiator types keen to play. The rest would just watch.

 

[Kwality]

Player depth is cut a bit thin with the number of clubs. This leads to a watered down contrived competition. However I like the expansion and eventually it will all come together...but not without some hiccups along the way. Just not enough "footballers" play footy.

Good thinking, the concern has to be the more teams brigade, Tas must get a team IMHO & the hard decision to merge 2 x Melb clubs is too hard for the Commission.

 

[Marcus DuQuesne]

Good thinking, the concern has to be the more teams brigade, Tas must get a team IMHO & the hard decision to merge 2 x Melb clubs is too hard for the Commission.

If it expands to 20 teams..would have to be 2 conferences. Melb clubs should have merged but we did not quite get there so more unlikely to happen in future. This game and comp. Will keep evolving.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Nah

 

[Kwality]

MCG (and Docklands) already have as many games each season as they can host.

Scheduling and grown quality mean there is a limit....

The AFL wants games to be sold elsewhere, both because there is nowhere to play them in Melbourne and because it's the only way to get games into markets too small to host a team.

The AFL has just renegotiated the MCC deal, it must be happy with the status quo despite Gils mealy-mouthed comments about equalising access to the GF venue, given he chose not to negotiate any changes.

What sort of crowd would the Hawks Eagles game have pulled if their was demand, as in Perth, as against the oversupplied Melbourne market ? Not a criticism of the Hawks, the FIX is in the AFLs hands.

 

[HTT]

The biggest reason anyone older than 30 isn't as interested in AFL anymore is because it is way softer. You will have these loud politically correct idiots that pretend taking all the violence out of the game is good because "think of the kids" but the game used to be violent. When players biff most people get excited. When players are hit hard most people are excited. They are taking away a lot of the excitement of the game for stupid reasons. There is only a handful of "hip and shoulders" in AFL every weekend now, a key tenant of the game.

Why should players be fined for having a bit of biff after the siren? ffs they are grown men and if they want to slap each other a bit let it happen. AFL will not grow if it doesn't stick to its strengths. There are many, many rusted on supporters of AFL that do not like the changes that will eventually just give up and then the crowds and ratings will not be sustainable.

If the NHL toughened too much up on their biff the crowds would plummet, and everyone knows it.

The game is tougher than ever. You used to only get belted off the ball, now it is to be anticipated every time you actually go for the Footy.
I’m against taking out football acts, but stupid s**t like the gif you posted can go.

 

[fake tyrone]

The biggest reason anyone older than 30 isn't as interested in AFL anymore is because it is way softer. You will have these loud politically correct idiots that pretend taking all the violence out of the game is good because "think of the kids" but the game used to be violent. When players biff most people get excited. When players are hit hard most people are excited. They are taking away a lot of the excitement of the game for stupid reasons. There is only a handful of "hip and shoulders" in AFL every weekend now, a key tenant of the game.

Why should players be fined for having a bit of biff after the siren? ffs they are grown men and if they want to slap each other a bit let it happen. AFL will not grow if it doesn't stick to its strengths. There are many, many rusted on supporters of AFL that do not like the changes that will eventually just give up and then the crowds and ratings will not be sustainable.

If the NHL toughened too much up on their biff the crowds would plummet, and everyone knows it.

As a casual fan of the NHL I don't know too much about it, but I thought the biff is also in decline there? I read an article that said the average number of fights per game has been declining to less than one.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Two conferences - the VFL conference (Vic) and the AFL conference (WA, SA, Tas, NSW, Qld).
The two conferences play off at the end of the year at neutral venue. Plus we bring back State of Origin.
VFL teams get their heart's desire, which is to play other VFL teams at the MCG, and interstate teams play on equal terms.

If the game keeps growing at current pace in NSW, this would be viable in about ten years.

OK, not very likely, because there's a lot more money in the current arrangement, but it would fairer and more fun for 'interstate' teams than playing in a glorified VFL.

The top players would be in the VFL conference so they get to sleep at home every night.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Now, although my interest is waning in footy due to to the fact it's just so devoid of excitement, intensity, and intrigue and there are constant floggings and every team feels the same with about three clear rungs of sides

You may be less interested because Fremantle played 9 finals games from 2012-15 and none since.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

The AFL has enough broke clubs. Imagine another 12 on top of that. Even if they had found a way in the '80s to keep the WAFL and SANFL ostensibly equal with the VFL going forward I don't think it would've lasted. There'd have been a breakaway league with the bigger clubs (if you went for a small WAFL or SANFL club or North Melbourne that's you out) or it would've ended up like European soccer where people from the smaller countries (WA, SA) just watch the bigger leagues (VFL + Swans + Brisbane) anyway because the difference in quality is so stark.

 

[dave123]

Gws and Gold Coast are mistakes

In five years no one will want to play in front of 5,000 people

I believe they inflate crowd numbers too ....I saw one figure if 15,000 at a giants game and thought YEAH NAH ....THERE WAS empty seats everywhere

We didn’t need 18 teams .....Gold Coast will be a basket case in three years when everyone has left

The issue I see is the two teams have no footy culture ...you can’t develope that.

 

[telsor]

The AFL has just renegotiated the MCC deal, it must be happy with the status quo despite Gils mealy-mouthed comments about equalising access to the GF venue, given he chose not to negotiate any changes.

What sort of crowd would the Hawks Eagles game have pulled if their was demand, as in Perth, as against the oversupplied Melbourne market ? Not a criticism of the Hawks, the FIX is in the AFLs hands.

Not sure how renegotiating the deal can make the grass handle more games.


More games -> lower quality surface.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Gws and Gold Coast are mistakes

In five years no one will want to play in front of 5,000 people

I believe they inflate crowd numbers too ....I saw one figure if 15,000 at a giants game and thought YEAH NAH ....THERE WAS empty seats everywhere

We didn’t need 18 teams .....Gold Coast will be a basket case in three years when everyone has left

The issue I see is the two teams have no footy culture ...you can’t develope that.

Lucky neither ckub actually plays in front of 5k then.
If you choose to believe your fantasy with no data, over published data, you can. Just dont expect to be taken seriously.

 

[dave123]

Lucky neither ckub actually plays in front of 5k then.
If you choose to believe your fantasy with no data, over published data, you can. Just dont expect to be taken seriously.

Seriously everytime I see Gold Coast or gws play they inflate the crowd numbers

It’s been a disaster exsoansion ...besides ex pats from footy playing states there zero interest in the game

Empty orange seats don’t tell lies ....maybe you need to do a Gabba ....have multi coloured seats to make it look like there’s a a crowd ...lbetter still ...sell blow up doles that you can sit next to in the crowd

Expansion into gws and Gold Coast was a joke ...poorly planned ....

No one cares about footy there

 

[dave123]

Lucky neither ckub actually plays in front of 5k then.
If you choose to believe your fantasy with no data, over published data, you can. Just dont expect to be taken seriously.

Sorry 5001 then ...you can count the trainers too

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Sorry 5001 then ...you can count the trainers too

Why lie about things like that. Do you think it furthers the discussion. Does coming across as an idiot appeal to you?

 

[dave123]

Why lie about things like that. Do you think it furthers the discussion. Does coming across as an idiot appeal to you?

I believe gws inflates crowd figures

It’s my opinion ...when I see 12,000 listed and there is empty seats everywhere I go YEAH NAH

GCS do the same

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I believe gws inflates crowd figures

It’s my opinion ...when I see 12,000 listed and there is empty seats everywhere I go YEAH NAH

GCS do the same

And you have evidence other than a 12k crowd in a 25k capacity stadium having empty seats?

 

[Roobs321]

My ideal setup would be separate state leagues, all competetive. State of origin games and perhaps a champions league kind of thing.

Would be amazing.

Maybe in theory, but in a country with our population size in 2018 that is totally unfeasible. Maybe workable if we went north of say 70 million.

 

[Smartest Brain]

The game is tougher than ever. You used to only get belted off the ball, now it is to be anticipated every time you actually go for the Footy.
I’m against taking out football acts, but stupid s**t like the gif you posted can go.

Game is tougher than ever? lol. Bumping is so risky its nearly been completely eliminated from the game. Defenders barely want to touch the forward now because "free kick". But yeah toughness is at the highest!

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yes. Less money wold have kept the game in its more pristine state.

 

[HTT]

Game is tougher than ever? lol. Bumping is so risky its nearly been completely eliminated from the game. Defenders barely want to touch the forward now because "free kick". But yeah toughness is at the highest!

Go play a modern game and get back to me

 

[Smartest Brain]

As a casual fan of the NHL I don't know too much about it, but I thought the biff is also in decline there? I read an article that said the average number of fights per game has been declining to less than one.

Its down to less than one in 4 games now. Attendances for NHL have been steady for 8 years at least while the fights per game has halved (was 1 in 2). The thing is that it is still allowed and the excitement of "will they biff this game" is still there. If it drops even further you would think it would have an impact on the fans.

Physical play in hockey, consisting of allowed techniques such as checking and prohibited techniques such as elbowing, high-sticking, and cross-checking, is inextricably linked to fighting.[6] Although often a target of criticism, it is a considerable draw for the sport, and some fans attend games primarily to see fights. The debate over allowing fighting in ice hockey games is ongoing.[8] Despite its potentially negative consequences, such as heavier enforcers (or "heavyweights") knocking each other out, administrators at the professional level have no plans to eliminate fighting from the game, as most players consider it essential.[9] Most fans and players oppose eliminating fights from professional hockey games

 

[chiwigi]

I have nothing against the VFL expanding to Sydney and Brisbane and then Perth and Adelaide, this isn't some dumb hur hur VFL bitching.

This is mostly directed toward West Australians and South Australians.

Now, although my interest is waning in footy due to to the fact it's just so devoid of excitement, intensity, and intrigue and there are constant floggings and every team feels the same with about three clear rungs of sides, I have thought about this before. As much as I enjoyed being the opposition, wearing the purple, getting cheeky pricks making comments, all this, I've quite often wished I followed a club of history and lineage and where, although I'm third generation Freo, it's not proper third generation. It's cool to know your family have always done that same ritual you are, and you're just another one passing through.

Not getting into the politics or issues with Gold Coast and GWS, but there's clear issues in Tasmanian footy where no one is getting drafted, these historical clubs are all folding, and the development and pathways are cactus because there's no money or professionalism in the admin.

In WA, I grew up and a trip to the footy used to get other kids jealous – kids who were into footy and were middle class enough simply had never been to the AFL before. It's not that unique. The cost was so prohibitive and experience so unenjoyable at Subi, a generation has grown up following the footy but not actually going to games. It's a bit wrong.

Crowds and money is important but there's a divide in Victoria where no matter how good the opposition side is or the match-up looks, interstate sides don't garner the same attention that Hawthorn v St Kilda or Richmond v Bullies would.

Not to mention fundamental issues with some teams rarely leaving Melbourne and others travelling a minimum three hours every second week, then there's the Grand Final (it should always be at the MCG – I agree with that, but it's hard for clubs out of Vic).

The draft is a hot one as well, with expansion clubs given academies and poaching guys like John Blakey's son. The idea of being from a certain area and probably going for the nearest club but knowing that you're going to play juniors then seniors there is a cool thing; quaint, novel, but it's a cool thing. It'd help foster relationships to specific areas and it gives each club a rightful identity and feel. Not to mention the fact it'd force clubs to develop well.

All in all, is the game just too attached and based on regionality to succeed?

I like the idea of bringing back zones and scrapping the draft but it's just so obvious that the WA and SA clubs will be dominant that it's not really ever going to get up.

Naturally if the VFL didn't expand, we wouldn't have three ultra professional and crisp leagues, but that's probably a good thing. Do we need this much media attention and whoring when the end result is Lingy acting like a handball was the most amazing thing he's ever seen, like a double head transplant or man on the moon? If we had three leagues they'd probably all be at a similar level to the A-League or NRL. But is that so bad? Does it make a better standard game if the players get 80k a year as opposed to three or four times that? Is there anything wrong with having a Winners type show and keeping up that way, or one league trying to go toward the TV model and playing weekday games so people all over the country can watch?

Those who follow the Crows, Eagles, and Dockers... do you wish you could still follow a local club, probably the one your family went for?

The more and more I think about it, the more I'd love the idea of going down to a sunny Freo Oval or cold Leederville and watching a game of footy for 20 bucks, with connection and relevance. And how much worse could the standard really be?

This is why I am so glad Port had the balls to go for it. It was clear that the only other option was to wither on the vine like so many other clubs.
It wasn't the easy or the popular option, but it turned out to be the right one.