Injury Walsh's Injury Updates

Suggest people listen to Buckley on Whately this morning. Said it was Wells choice to go back on and injury wasn't made any worse by entering the field.
Barrett also reported that Wells wanted to go back on this Argo on MMM. Apparently thought it was minor until his foot cooled down overnight and the pain increased.
 

BigCharlie

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Suggest people listen to Buckley on Whately this morning. Said it was Wells choice to go back on and injury wasn't made any worse by entering the field.

Christ, you people will believe anything.

1)There is no possible way on earth anyone could tell whether the injury wasn't made worse, and 2)A lisfranc injury is a very serious injury, especially when it involves diastasis.

As it one of the of the two most common foot injuries in athletes, any midfoot pain or MOI that could possibly lead to that injury has to be suspected to be a Lisfranc injury unless proven otherwise.
 
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Christ, you people will believe anything.

1)There is no possible way on earth anyone could tell whether the injury wasn't made worse, and 2)A lisfranc injury is a very serious injury, especially when it involves diastasis.

As it one of the of the two most common foot injuries in athletes, any midfoot pain or MOI that could possibly lead to that injury has to be suspected to be a Lisfranc injury unless proven otherwise.

I agree with this. I just think if it’s Wells and he’s obviously got some kind of foot injury, you err on the safe side. Even if he wants to go back on.
 

Tippy78

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Christ, you people will believe anything.

1)There is no possible way on earth anyone could tell whether the injury wasn't made worse, and 2)A lisfranc injury is a very serious injury, especially when it involves diastasis.

As it one of the of the two most common foot injuries in athletes, any midfoot pain or MOI that could possibly lead to that injury has to be suspected to be a Lisfranc injury unless proven otherwise.

I don’t believe you but I believe Bucks
 
Christ, you people will believe anything.

1)There is no possible way on earth anyone could tell whether the injury wasn't made worse, and 2)A lisfranc injury is a very serious injury, especially when it involves diastasis.

As it one of the of the two most common foot injuries in athletes, any midfoot pain or MOI that could possibly lead to that injury has to be suspected to be a Lisfranc injury unless proven otherwise.

The claim that the injury didn't get any worse also struck me as a complete guess at best or more likely complete spin to avoid criticism. They clearly didn't know what the injury was at the time or the extent of it and they have no way of retrospectively finding out the initial extent of it or whether it got worse.

I'm not having ago at the medicos. There are ridiculous expectations on this board of medicos. Like doctors all around the world, a player tells them where his pain is, they then have a look for external symptoms, test various movement and then make an educated guess. Unless we have MRI machines on the interchange bench that's all they can do and often the educated guess will miss the mark. Even after an MRI scan, they often still just see inflammation and have to make an educated guess.
 
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The claim that the injury didn't get any worse also struck me as a complete guess at best or more likely complete spin to avoid criticism. They clearly didn't know what the injury was at the time or the extent of it and they have no way of retrospectively finding out the initial extent of it or whether it got worse.

I'm not having ago at the medicos. There are ridiculous expectations on this board of medicos. Like doctors all around the world, a player tells them where his pain is, they then have a look for external symptoms, test various movement and then make an educated guess. Unless we have MRI machines on the interchange bench that's all they can do and often the educated guess will miss the mark. Even after an MRI scan, they often still just see inflammation and have to make an educated guess.

There’s a line, IMO.

Without a shadow of a doubt the call down to the bench would have gone like this “we need the rotation. If he can run get him out there” so anyone choosing to pin this on the medicos is both right and wrong, IMO. Wrong in the sense that it wouldn’t have been their decision to send him back out there and right in the sense that they weren’t firm enough to simply say “no, we aren’t taking any risks he’s done for the day” so they do deserve a share of the “responsibility” (not really sure what the correct word is here).

FWIW we have form with this stuff just ask Tim Broomhead it happened to him twice! JDG was sent back on the field last year then had season ending surgery that week. Maynard was sent back on v Richmond then misses the next month. At some point we need to realise that the extra rotation may just not be worth it.
 
Christ, you people will believe anything.

1)There is no possible way on earth anyone could tell whether the injury wasn't made worse, and 2)A lisfranc injury is a very serious injury, especially when it involves diastasis.

As it one of the of the two most common foot injuries in athletes, any midfoot pain or MOI that could possibly lead to that injury has to be suspected to be a Lisfranc injury unless proven otherwise.
Why do you think he was sent back on?
 
There’s a line, IMO.

Without a shadow of a doubt the call down to the bench would have gone like this “we need the rotation. If he can run get him out there” so anyone choosing to pin this on the medicos is both right and wrong, IMO. Wrong in the sense that it wouldn’t have been their decision to send him back out there and right in the sense that they weren’t firm enough to simply say “no, we aren’t taking any risks he’s done for the day” so they do deserve a share of the “responsibility” (not really sure what the correct word is here).

FWIW we have form with this stuff just ask Tim Broomhead it happened to him twice! JDG was sent back on the field last year then had season ending surgery that week. Maynard was sent back on v Richmond then misses the next month. At some point we need to realise that the extra rotation may just not be worth it.

For me the line is whether the player is being pressured to play on or not. I don't know enough about the examples that you've mentioned or the Wells example to have an opinion whether we are poor in this regard. There's been whispers about the Broomhead example, but nothing substantial.

I would be shocked if Wells would have come back on or been allowed to come back on if they knew the extent of his injury, but the reality is that on game day they don't know the extent of injuries and many players will undersell their niggles thus making diagnosis even less accurate. I don't reckon any club regularly sits blokes down for a half if the bloke says he's ok to play on and the doctors aren't very confident that it's serious.
 

BigCharlie

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I don’t believe you but I believe Bucks

I don't care.

I'm not having ago at the medicos. There are ridiculous expectations on this board of medicos. Like doctors all around the world, a player tells them where his pain is, they then have a look for external symptoms, test various movement and then make an educated guess.

Yes and no. These days they have video footage from every possible angle to pore over for a mechanism of injury.
It was a rather innocuous occurrence, but then Lisfranc injuries most often occur via a low velocity indirect force. He could partially weight bear coming of the ground, but only they will know what tests they ran him through down in the rooms.

I think it's more likely than not the diastasis happened after he came back on. They would have been able to tell otherwise down in the rooms simply by passive joint movements, i.e there would have been movement.

Even after an MRI scan, they often still just see inflammation and have to make an educated guess.

Err, no.

Why do you think he was sent back on?

Because the medical staff are clueless.
 
Err, no.



.

I've had two different ailments, where I had MRIs done at top notch facilities, by top notch surgeons, on both occassions they said massive inflammation, but we're not sure of the cause. We could do exploratory surgery if you like or alternatively hope it settles.
 
I don't care.



Yes and no. These days they have video footage from every possible angle to pore over for a mechanism of injury.
It was a rather innocuous occurrence, but then Lisfranc injuries most often occur via a low velocity indirect force. He could partially weight bear coming of the ground, but only they will know what tests they ran him through down in the rooms.

I think it's more likely than not the diastasis happened after he came back on. They would have been able to tell otherwise down in the rooms simply by passive joint movements, i.e there would have been movement.



Err, no.



Because the medical staff are clueless.
That’s not a reason.
 

Swooper18

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COLLINGWOOD

Player

Injury

Estimated Return

James Aish Knee 5-6 weeks
Tim Broomhead Broken leg Season
Jamie Elliott Hamstring 1-2 weeks
Alex Fasolo Ankle 4-5 weeks
Tyson Goldsack Knee 10-12 weeks
Kayle Kirby Heart issue Indefinite
Jack Madgen Broken jaw 2 weeks
Darcy Moore Hamstring 1-2 weeks
Ben Reid Leg 1 week
Josh Smith Hamstring 1 week
Travis Varcoe Hamstring 1-2 weeks
Daniel Wells Foot Season
Updated: Monday, June 18

Early prognosis
Reid
and hamstrung quartet Elliott, Moore, Varcoe and Smith are at least another week away, while Aish and Fasolo are recovering well. Wells has undergone a possibly season-ending operation on a foot injury. The club continues to monitor Kirby's heart issue. - Ben Collins
 
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I don't care.



Yes and no. These days they have video footage from every possible angle to pore over for a mechanism of injury.
It was a rather innocuous occurrence, but then Lisfranc injuries most often occur via a low velocity indirect force. He could partially weight bear coming of the ground, but only they will know what tests they ran him through down in the rooms.

I think it's more likely than not the diastasis happened after he came back on. They would have been able to tell otherwise down in the rooms simply by passive joint movements, i.e there would have been movement.



Err, no.



Because the medical staff are clueless.

And your not? I’d back medicos one thinks?


Sent from my Warped mind
 

MagpieBat

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Date Posted: 23:33 19/06/18 Tue
Author: Crimson Mask
Author Host/IP: NoHost / 60.224.235.126
Subject: Injury update - straight from the horse's mouth

Just back from the Club 42 function which was the traditional coaches' night with Bucks, Longmuir, Buddha, Rivers, Gotch in attendance.

Bucks - as is his wont - spoke candidly, honestly and excellently. Unfortunately injury news isn't what you want to hear.

Said that Elliott was 1 month away, Moore and Reid 3 weeks away and Varcoe 2 weeks away.

Let's pray for no further injuries in the next few weeks as according to Bucks the VFL options aren't quite ready!

When he returns Darcy will be played behind the ball initially and then he'll reassess. Seemed to imply that Reid and Moore may well be competing for the same spot!

http://www.voy.com/51976/395978.html
 
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So Elliott did a supposedly low grade hamstring sometime around round 1 or 2? Then came back after 4 weeks & did the same low grade hamstring? As did both Smith & Moore. Now we are at round 13 & he is a month away?
Yep we are awesome at injury management.
Elliot has back issues. Pretty sure those with banks issues usually will have problems with hamstrings as well.

I'm no expert, but I'm not sure what can be done (that wouldn't already been part of his plan) to help prevent hamstring injuries.
 

MagpieBat

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So Elliott did a supposedly low grade hamstring sometime around round 1 or 2? Then came back after 4 weeks & did the same low grade hamstring? As did both Smith & Moore. Now we are at round 13 & he is a month away?
Yep we are awesome at injury management.

Billy was a "tweak" the day before Round 4 vs Adelaide (though he had previously had a few "step backs" in his pre-season loads), missed 5 weeks, returned AFL Round 8 in the 2nds, came on for his first run in the 2nd qtr and had another "tweak" after 5 minutes.

Moore had "awareness" in Round 2 vs GWS, missed until Round 7 vs Brisbane, had "awareness" again the following week in the 2nd qtr.

Smith did a proper hamstring tear in Round 1 vs Hawthorn, returned weekend of AFL Round 7 in the 2nds, had a "tweak" at the 20 minite mark of the 1st qtr.

Yeah, if those timeframes I quoted are VFL return as opposed to AFL readiness, then we've had a couple of re-re-occurences on the sly. Hopefully not...
 
Billy was shown training earlier in the week and they said another week before he plays.
I'd say Bucks would be talking AFL ready timeframes.


Hope so. The forward line is functioning pretty well as it is.
But boy do we become a lot more dangerous with Jamie roaming around there.
We shouldn't require him to beat the lower ranked clubs who we have coming up.
But he would be so handy to have forward when we take on the likes of Sydney, Richmond & Port later in the year.
Really hope we can get the guy right soon.
 
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